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Thread: History: Historians Post your work here

  1. #31

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    that should work since barbarians are very weak
    Last edited by ahowl11; 08-15-2011 at 20:10.

  2. #32
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Ambushes can just be placed in forests, so it would be doable - but dense forests would definitly annoy the player, regardless which faction he plays - he can´t see his troops. Also, I fail to see a great advantage, apart from the +2 forest fighting ability.
    That's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    But if we would generaly make the winter bonus of the barbarians higher, slow movement rate of the more "civiliced" Factions, and make the game last 4 turns a year - That would strengthen the barbarians, while making it more historically correct that most factions didn´t fight in the winter.
    That is also true, but would it change the gameplay too much?

    Anyway, I'm not sure if we should put the Romans in forts when they're out of movement point because of the Roman advantages.

    Also, it would be better for the player to decide whether they want to build a fort (using up 25% movement, could we implement that?) or use that extra distance to attack the enemy

  3. #33

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    using up 25% movement, could we implement that?)
    Might. Going to check it.

    I agree with your second sentence, and for the first - well, trying. Wouldn´t be too much work, I think.

  4. #34
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Skull View Post
    SEKUNDA???
    PFFFFF...
    Yes, Sekunda. While I don't agree with all he says, especially when in comes to overating he Roman influence on the 'reforms'. He however is right on one thing there were more and more heavy thureophoroi units. While you might not like Osprey, note that I did not refer to an Osprey, the sources don't lie about there seemingly being an evolution. If you don't like Sekunda, you might still want to trust the documents I referred you to. Or do you laugh with primary sources as well?

    Somehow you don't struck as much of an Historian at all, to anyone if your only response on a helpfull post is an argument ad hominem.
    Last edited by Moros; 08-17-2011 at 15:03.

  5. #35
    Member Member Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Yes, Sekunda. While I don't agree with all he says, especially when in comes to overating he Roman influence on the 'reforms'. He however is right on one thing there were more and more heavy thureophoroi units. While you might not like Osprey, note that I did not refer to an Osprey, the sources don't lie about there seemingly being an evolution. If you don't like Sekunda, you might still want to trust the documents I referred you to. Or do you laugh with primary sources as well?

    Somehow you don't struck as much of an Historian at all, to anyone if your only response on a helpfull post is an argument ad hominem.
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    What?
    When the camel {S}thinks,it is time to leave the oassis!

  6. #36

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Yes, Sekunda. While I don't agree with all he says, especially when in comes to overating he Roman influence on the 'reforms'. He however is right on one thing there were more and more heavy thureophoroi units. While you might not like Osprey, note that I did not refer to an Osprey, the sources don't lie about there seemingly being an evolution. If you don't like Sekunda, you might still want to trust the documents I referred you to. Or do you laugh with primary sources as well?

    Somehow you don't struck as much of an Historian at all, to anyone if your only response on a helpfull post is an argument ad hominem.
    I think he just thought that "Sekunda" is a funny name. His Statement was neither political nor personaly meant.

  7. #37
    Member Member Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    I think he just thought that "Sekunda" is a funny name. His Statement was neither political nor personaly meant.
    When the camel {S}thinks,it is time to leave the oassis!

  8. #38
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    A bit of information on the Kingdom of Atropatene. I'm not sure how much of my research relates specifically to Atropatene rather than Media.

    The Kingdom was created by the satrap of Northern Media, Atropates. After Alexander's death, Atropates was succeeded by Peithon. The Kingdom had a varying degree of independence as it was apparently as "vassal state" for the Seleucids. The Kingdom may have also taken parts in rebellions that occurred in Media. Eventually, the Parthians came and turned it into a province. Later on, the Romans would also invade the area.

    The overall area was less Hellenised than one would expect. Zoroastrianism was the main religion in the area, and the natives of the areas were the Medes. However, Greek settlers did come but did not replace them. This among other factors led to some cities in Media not being granted the title of "polis". However, there were Greek cities found in Media, and they were inhabited by former soldiers. The landscape was intriguing too. Media had rough, mountainous terrain, but it may either have had light or heavy forests. There would also be heavy rain when compared to the rest of Iran.

    The Atropatene army was very interesting. As a lightly forested hilly area, one would expect light troops, no cavalry or phalanx. However, when a rebellion occurred in Media, the army core was made of Phalangites. However, it is unlikely they saw much action due to uneven terrain. Also, infantry may have been a supporting role compared to cavalry. However, when the Seleucid Kings raised armies from Media, there was much more infantry than cavalry. The natives became the light infantry, and there were Cyrtian slingers. The cavalry was from a tough Parthian breed, and sources mention many cavalry men coming from Media. There would also be heavy cavalry, but their effectiveness may have been limited by the terrain.

  9. #39

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Good work! we can give them some hellenistic units

  10. #40
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by ahowl11 View Post
    Good work! we can give them some hellenistic units
    Maybe one Phalangite unit but not more. I would give them AOR Mercenary Phalangites and spearmen though

    Maybe we could name the one unit "Greek Settler Phalangites" or something like that.

  11. #41

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    maybe.. THS has a Phalanx Pikemen Unit for Atropatene.. we can just use that one

  12. #42
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by ahowl11 View Post
    maybe.. THS has a Phalanx Pikemen Unit for Atropatene.. we can just use that one
    The Hellenic States (just looked up THS right now)? They have a phalanx unit for Atropatene?

    If it can be confirmed by a secondary source that the phalanx was used in Atropatene, not just Media, then we can allow them to have it.

    Otherwise, I would be against it.

  13. #43

    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    yes they do, i have the mod.. and there are very few sources but i remember someone saying that Atropatene was mainly Persian, but they had some hellenic influences.. i think having Phalanx pikemen would be good for them

  14. #44
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Quote Originally Posted by ahowl11 View Post
    yes they do, i have the mod.. and there are very few sources but i remember someone saying that Atropatene was mainly Persian, but they had some hellenic influences.. i think having Phalanx pikemen would be good for them
    Well then, we can have it. Even if it is not correct, we can always change it.

  15. #45
    Ancient Briton Member Edorix's Avatar
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    Default Re: History: Historians Post your work here

    Warfare & Warriors of Iron Age Britain

    The game period spans two distinct phases of the British Iron Age: Middle and Late. The two are very different. In the following post, I shall be dealing with the hillfort-dominated zone of Southern Britain. I would suggest that this be where the British faction starts, for two main reasons:

    a) It is the area which we know most about, because it has undergone the most study and was most in contact with the Roman world.
    b) It had a high population density; many more people lived in central Southern Britain than lived in Wales, Scotland, or Northern or Central England, for example.

    So, the faction should start off in one of these two provinces, with one of these names:

    a) Camulodunom ("settlement of warriors"), province Cantiom (+/- Kent). Faction name: Cantiacoi.
    This simply means "inhabitants of Kent".
    b) Maisodunom ("greatest settlement"), province Dixsoua ("the South"). Faction name: Pritanoi, Durotriges.
    Pritanoi is the name that EB2 are using for their British faction, because it is definitely contemporary to our period, and is pretty generally applicable. The problem is, it probably did mean "Britons", not just a single tribe.
    Durotriges is the name of the tribe that lived in the area of Dorset in the Late Iron Age (LIA). There is no evidence for this name in the MIA; however, there is strong continuity in the archaeological record between the MIA and LIA in this region. It is possible that the same tribe survived the social turmoil of 150-100 BCE.

    I am making this post just to try and sum up in a nutshell how the British units should be, roughly.

    MIA

    The only weapons in the archaeological record are spears and slings. Axes are also known, and they could have been pressed into service. There are no swords in the hillfort zone, and I cannot think of any from anywhere else except the Arras culture. This strongly suggests a more egalitarian society, deliberately at odds with the powerful hunter-magician chiefs vs peasant farmers system of the Bronze Age. The settlement pattern - some hillforts and many open settlements - is not in keeping with the common belief that this period was characterised by raiding; you would expect fewer, more strongly defended settlements. Battles were probably pre-arranged organised battles between polities.

    There should therefore be only three types of units available: spearmen, slingers, and a few axemen. The melee troops should/could have light javelins too - not pila, mind (!), just sharpened sticks. However, there should be a trigger fairly early (first minor city built? Wales and Northern England conquered?) which sets off a reform, bringing you into the Late Iron Age, with its warrior-chieftains and golden torques and what-not, parallel to the overthrow of the old system and the institution of the timarchies which we more often associate with the Celts.

    LIA

    This is where warfare becomes more varied and interesting. You now have two distinct classes: the farmers, and the warriors. The farmers are still the spearmen and slingers (and axemen) of the earlier period; but we now have the nobles too. They will have swords, chain mail, horses, and chariots, as characteristics - no helmets, only one has ever been found in Britain and it's too small to be worn by an adult man and too flimsy to offer protection in battle. From these you can make a great variety of units. Iron also comes into wider circulation in this period, so iron spears will be more common - in the MIA spearheads were probably mostly fire-hardened wood, as not very many iron spearheads have been found. Again, javelins were probably used by all melee troops; the richer the social class, the better the javelin.

    **********

    That's it, in nutshell. Hope it helps.
    ~ Edorix
    Ancient Briton


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