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Thread: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

  1. #31
    The Puppet King Senior Member AggonyKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    although I don't nearly play as much sp campaign, I learned a lot from this. I feel like I can take on legendary campaign now O.o

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  2. #32
    CA CA CraigTW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Well done on a super guide

  3. #33

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Many thanks.

    A small correction - chapels do not need any arts, and they spread christianity in neighbouring provinces. The rest of the christian religion buildings have the same art requirement as their buddhist equivalents as you say.

    Also the arts tree does not show the prerequisites correctly for the neo-confucianism (sic?) art. It requires the third level religious tech as will as the second diplomacy one. This is incorrectly shown in the image/tree in the encyclopedia.

  4. #34
    CA UK Design Staff CA Intrepid Sidekick's Avatar
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    CA Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Hi FBE

    Just wanted to pop in and say well done on another excellent guide.
    Intrepid Sidekick
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  5. #35
    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    A fantastic guide once again, and one is hard pressed to avoid things one has said earlier about your guides. I find almost everything as I have experienced it playing the game and have learned quite a few other things now in detail.

    One of the few things I still could not work out neatly is how the demand for goods is created. It certainly is incluenced by a couple of factors, with bigger and richer trading partners being able to generate more of it, but exactly how it works remains to me a bit of a mystery. On a side note the demand of surplus goods does not depend on the town or commerce wealth of your provinces, as I have tested on my last campaign in which I have conquered all of Nippon. Even with a booming economy due to the huge rice surplus, research and economic building program my surplus goods never brought more than about 27500 koku in taxes rolling in.

    (While I'm writing this I do thing in this case we might have found a case of a supply cap and not a demand one. I have to test that in the next days.)

    Overall I guess that traded goods bring in more than twice and less than trice as much koku as goods sold as surplus to your citiziens, making as your wrote trade agreements also very worthy from an economic point of view.



    OA
    "Silent enim leges inter arma - For among arms, the laws fall mute"
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  6. #36

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Froggy: Great job. I remember when you first came to the Shogun community and were writing a story about a brother and sister (If I remember correctly: It was set in Medieval times?). Anyways, your writing has improved over the years to where you could easily make a living as a wordsmith. Congratulations and here's hoping you will enjoy playing STW2 for fun as much as I do. If you are on Steam, please put me down as a friend. My Steam name is: UglyElmo. Would love to play a coop with you. I think this is the most under-played, under-rated feature of STW2. I have had a blast showing people the beauty of the coop campaign. :)

  7. #37

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Another fabulous guide!

    Now if we could just get CA to give you the games before release...

    Thank you Froggy
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  8. #38

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you, everyone, for the congratulations and warm feelings. After spending ludicrous amounts of time working on this it is very nice to know that the guide is useful. Due to the nature of the internet, I have no way to knowing that unless people post.

    CraigTW and Intrepid Sidekick, please pass my appreciation along to the Shogun II team. It is a more than worthy heir to Shogun: Total War, and in my opinion the best in the series by a very, very long way. I can't think of many strategy games I have enjoyed as much as this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by feelotraveller View Post
    A small correction - chapels do not need any arts, and they spread christianity in neighbouring provinces. The rest of the christian religion buildings have the same art requirement as their buddhist equivalents as you say.
    This must have been tweaked in a patch. It would have made the early stages of my Christian test game a lot less painful!

    I hope to implement the few corrections people have brought forward this weekend.

    Also the arts tree does not show the prerequisites correctly for the neo-confucianism (sic?) art. It requires the third level religious tech as will as the second diplomacy one. This is incorrectly shown in the image/tree in the encyclopedia.
    I'm not sure what to do with this one. The picture in the guide is taken from the in-game research display after the first big patch and prior to any of the others. If I start a new campaign with the latest update it is still laid out the same. The encyclopaedia doesn't show the link either, as you say. One way or another there's a bug at work. Question is, is the lack of a visible link the bug, or the fact the art now requires an additional prerequisite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens View Post
    One of the few things I still could not work out neatly is how the demand for goods is created. It certainly is incluenced by a couple of factors, with bigger and richer trading partners being able to generate more of it, but exactly how it works remains to me a bit of a mystery. On a side note the demand of surplus goods does not depend on the town or commerce wealth of your provinces, as I have tested on my last campaign in which I have conquered all of Nippon. Even with a booming economy due to the huge rice surplus, research and economic building program my surplus goods never brought more than about 27500 koku in taxes rolling in.

    (While I'm writing this I do thing in this case we might have found a case of a supply cap and not a demand one. I have to test that in the next days.)

    Overall I guess that traded goods bring in more than twice and less than trice as much koku as goods sold as surplus to your citiziens, making as your wrote trade agreements also very worthy from an economic point of view.
    I confess that I wasn't able to dig too deeply into the fine mechanics of the economy, which is a shame because I did see a lot of players asking about how various parts of it worked. I didn't see any discussions which pinned down this trade good aspect either. Why not start a topic over in the research forum? I'm sure people will be interested in seeing your results.

    Quote Originally Posted by UglyElmo2 View Post
    Froggy: Great job. I remember when you first came to the Shogun community and were writing a story about a brother and sister (If I remember correctly: It was set in Medieval times?). Anyways, your writing has improved over the years to where you could easily make a living as a wordsmith. Congratulations and here's hoping you will enjoy playing STW2 for fun as much as I do. If you are on Steam, please put me down as a friend. My Steam name is: UglyElmo. Would love to play a coop with you. I think this is the most under-played, under-rated feature of STW2. I have had a blast showing people the beauty of the coop campaign. :)
    I did write a variety of medieval-themed stories when Medieval: Total War was the current game in the series. I suspect the one you are thinking of is 'The Machiavellian Adventures of Princess Eleanor', although Fulk was not her brother. He was a bodyguard and, er, accomplice.

    I'll add you on steam, although MP isn't my cup of tea.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  9. #39

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by feelotraveller View Post
    Also the arts tree does not show the prerequisites correctly for the neo-confucianism (sic?) art. It requires the third level religious tech as will as the second diplomacy one. This is incorrectly shown in the image/tree in the encyclopedia.
    I had chance to test this today, when resuming one of my test games so I could complete the campaign. Neo-confucianism was available for me to research without the third religious art; it unlocked as soon as I researched calligraphy. The lines on the in-game tech tree are correct.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  10. #40

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thanks for making this guide. It has been a huge help. This is my first Total War game. I also do not play or have much experience in strategy games. Makes the daunting aspects and start up much easier.

  11. #41
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Once again, Froggie has outdone herself...and there are few higher standards.

    I wandered onto this website years past, found her medieval guide, and stayed. Since this guide is even better, it will no doubt attract even better members (okay, surpassing me might not be that difficult, but you get what I am saying).

    So, again, THANKS!
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  12. #42
    Member Member Oleander Ardens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post

    I confess that I wasn't able to dig too deeply into the fine mechanics of the economy, which is a shame because I did see a lot of players asking about how various parts of it worked. I didn't see any discussions which pinned down this trade good aspect either. Why not start a topic over in the research forum? I'm sure people will be interested in seeing your results.
    Maybe I will do so. I'm currently working on a flowchart which interlinks the various economic forces at the provincial level, and I'm trying to understand more about the finer details of the economy. For example the trade taxes bonii seem to work also for surplus goods sold, as the tax income declined when I destroyed a warehouse (+10% to trade taxes IIRC) in a "sea" province, all other things being equal. So there is some consistency, as one can imagine the trade gooded being taxed at a fixed rate + the tax bonii from the arts + clan advantages + potentially other factors, in a similar fashion as the provincial wealth gets taxed. But it is slow going.

    One thing I missed or I coulnd't find in your excellent guide is the importances of generals as ministers, especially if they have earned many stars. The intial bonus given by the charge, be it army or building seems to get multiplied per star. For example a quite disloyal 4 star general of mine in my recent Uesi campaign gives me a 4% tax bonus compared to the usual 1% tax bonus. My 6 star elder brother which is currently taking care of logistics has been incredible at filling my up my depleted stacks. Overall it seems that relieving a general of his duty is very dangerous (-1 loyality), especially if a lower star general replaces him in it (an additional -1 loyality)

    OA
    Last edited by Oleander Ardens; 08-22-2011 at 16:02.
    "Silent enim leges inter arma - For among arms, the laws fall mute"
    Cicero, Pro Milone

  13. #43

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Great guide! I've been enjoying your guides since the very first you wrote.

    Just a small contribution from my side:

    'Sabotaged buildings cease working until their owner pays for their repair. Repairs usually take a few turns.'

    As far as I know, the repairs are usually finished in the next turn, if you pay for them, even on legendary.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Hi. I just registered on the forum.

    Excellent guide. Loads of detailed info which is great.

    How's that PDF coming along? I really don't like reading so much text on a screen. I'd much prefer to print it out and read it on paper.

  15. #45
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    The PDF will be available by the end of this weekend.


  16. #46

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thanks everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens View Post
    Maybe I will do so.
    I see you have created the thread. When I have 5 minutes I shall go and have a read ...

    One thing I missed or I coulnd't find in your excellent guide is the importances of generals as ministers, especially if they have earned many stars. The intial bonus given by the charge, be it army or building seems to get multiplied per star. For example a quite disloyal 4 star general of mine in my recent Uesi campaign gives me a 4% tax bonus compared to the usual 1% tax bonus. My 6 star elder brother which is currently taking care of logistics has been incredible at filling my up my depleted stacks. Overall it seems that relieving a general of his duty is very dangerous (-1 loyality), especially if a lower star general replaces him in it (an additional -1 loyality)
    I originally intended to have a clan management section, and a section on generals. I had to cut both due to time constraints. That means that the guide contains very little about generals, ministers, and so on. It's a shame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Honda Tadakatsu View Post
    Just a small contribution from my side:

    'Sabotaged buildings cease working until their owner pays for their repair. Repairs usually take a few turns.'

    As far as I know, the repairs are usually finished in the next turn, if you pay for them, even on legendary.
    Now I feel victimised by the game! ;p I've had multiple occasions where I have needed to wait 5 turns for repairs. I saw that on :thinks: a test game on very hard, and another on easy. In a few cases the buildings sabotaged were undergoing upgrade, I don't think that was the case with all of them though. When it was not 1 turn to repair, it was always 5 turns. In the case of the buildings under-going upgrade, the 5 turns didn't have any relation to either the remaining build time when the sabotage occurred, or the full build time when the initial order was given.

    If anyone can shed light on this I'd be interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
    How's that PDF coming along? I really don't like reading so much text on a screen. I'd much prefer to print it out and read it on paper.
    I reviewed the current version this afternoon. It's coming along very nicely and is nearly finished.

    EDIT: Tincow beat me to it! Since he's handling the conversion, he knows best.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  17. #47

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Sweet. I thought my response would go unnoticed for days but instead 2 replies in 20 min. and PDF coming today or tomorrow.
    Feel like a 6 year old at christmas now

  18. #48

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
    Sweet. I thought my response would go unnoticed for days but instead 2 replies in 20 min. and PDF coming today or tomorrow.
    Feel like a 6 year old at christmas now
    I hope the present with the nice wrapping paper doesn't turn out to be a pair of socks.

    I do try to check the thread at least once a day, although I often don't have time to post a reply. I always feel that it's better to wait until I can do a proper post than rush something out. Should I see something which looks urgent, I do try and reply immediately. Someone should give me a device that makes time stand still for everyone except myself so that I can get more done each day. Yup.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  19. #49
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    As promised, a PDF version of the Guide is now available for download. You can find it in the Downloads section, or just click this link. I have also added a link in the top post.


  20. #50

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    I had chance to test this today, when resuming one of my test games so I could complete the campaign. Neo-confucianism was available for me to research without the third religious art; it unlocked as soon as I researched calligraphy. The lines on the in-game tech tree are correct.
    My mistake. I hadn't actually noticed this one in game (unlike the chapel) only in the encyclopedia - probably should have said so. And sorry for the delay... someone used up nearly all the internet account for this month and had to be temporarily self-banned

  21. #51

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Well, I don't want to resurrect a "dead" thread by posting nearly a month since the last comment, but I have to compliment frogbeastegg's masterpiece. I figured I'd just stroll in and crush the clans of Japan, declaring myself shogun and drinking myself silly, but then I remembered I've only played Rome and Medieval II. Shogun 2 definitely seems easier to get into, but still difficult to excel at. That's how games should be designed, in my opinion, and while some see Shogun 2 as being "dumbed down" or simplified, I think CA hit a nice balance between ease of access and time required to master. One thing I wasn't too clear about - probably because I simply didn't look closely enough - was town growth. The section on the benefit of surplus rice versus the additional koku earned through market buildings was very interesting, and certainly something I never would've thought of; I normally upgrade all of my buildings as quickly as possible and let the chips fall where they may. In Shogun 2, I'm finding myself having to make choices, especially in the early game: research, construction, unit recruitment, and how I treat each clan. This guide most definitely helps me make the right choices, and for that I'm thankful.

    There go my monks!

  22. #52

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    I read through most of the guide, but I didn't see anything on this (maybe I missed that part?). At any rate, this is probably a good question to ask here.

    I'm a big fan of Naginata, and in my most recent game, I've captured most of Kyushu. Shimazu's home province has a blacksmith, which I've upgraded to a master armorsmith. However, I'm wondering if like-bonuses would stack, such as if I made an encampment and upgraded it to an armory. This would make some truly beefy Naginata.

    Anyway, thanks in advance for the info.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    It's good to see that people are still reading the guide and finding it useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    I'm a big fan of Naginata, and in my most recent game, I've captured most of Kyushu. Shimazu's home province has a blacksmith, which I've upgraded to a master armorsmith. However, I'm wondering if like-bonuses would stack, such as if I made an encampment and upgraded it to an armory. This would make some truly beefy Naginata.
    Yes, they would stack. Stacking bonuses can lead to fearsome results, particularly if you do it with accuracy bonuses for samurai or warrior monk archers. Using the bonuses to counter weaknesses in a unit can also be very effective. For example, giving monks a lot of armour makes them more durable to ranged weapons and even harder to kill in a melee. The best choice always depends on how you use the unit.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  24. #54

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Thank you so much for writing this guide; it has been a massive help. So much so that i've registered here specially to say thanks.

  25. #55
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Welcome bishop5!
    This space intentionally left blank

  26. #56
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Welcome bishop5

    Quote Originally Posted by bishop5 View Post
    Thank you so much for writing this guide; it has been a massive help. So much so that i've registered here specially to say thanks.
    That's a very nice thing to do and I'm sure froggy appreciates the gesture.

    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

    Ja mata, TosaInu

  27. #57

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Also I'm sorry for bumping this, but like bishop5, I also registered just to say thanks to Froggy.

  28. #58
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    No need to say sorry. Welcome to the .Org.

    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

  29. #59
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody View Post
    Also I'm sorry for bumping this, but like bishop5, I also registered just to say thanks to Froggy.
    I'm sure mylady frog appreciates the kind gesture.

    Welcome Rody
    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

    Ja mata, TosaInu

  30. #60

    Default Re: Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II

    It's very nice to see that people are still finding this useful!

    Thank you.

    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


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