Republic Wireless

[Lemur]

I'm guardedly excited about this service. A short primer:

bandwidth.com, which provides the VoIP backbone for services including Google Voice and Twilio, is launching an alternative mobile carrier called Republic Wireless. [...] [I]t will cost only $19 a month for unlimited text, data, and voice. It can offer these low rates because its phones use a special ‘Hybrid Calling’ system that relies on Wifi whenever possible, falling back to cellular connections when Wifi isn’t available. The initial cellular partner is Sprint, but Republic is working to use other carriers as fallback options as well. [...]

The first phone being offered by Republic Wireless — which users will need to buy in order to use the service — is a modified version of The LG Optimus, running Android 2.3 (Gingerbread). This phone is offered by other carriers and is generally regarded as a solid low-end device (it’s not going to look great next to a Galaxy S II, but it’ll more than suffice for a lot of people). The device will be sold for $199 with no contract, and it will be available at a discounted rate of $99 through November 27 if you use the promo code ‘welcome19′. Again, that’s with no contract — there are no termination fees.

Here are additional details from the press release:

The first month of service bundled with the start up fee
An LG Optimus smartphone running Android 2.3 (“Gingerbread”)
Month-to-month freedom from contracts and termination fees
Unlimited voice minutes
Unlimited text messages
Unlimited data megabytes
Automatic default to Wi-Fi when in range
Automatic Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) calling over Wi-Fi
Internet protocol texting over Wi-Fi
Nationwide cellular coverage when Wi-Fi isn’t available
No overages or roaming fees, ever
No-risk, 30-day money back guarantee

Thoughts from my brethren Orgahs? I've already applied to be in the beta.

[Lemur]

Dang it, I want in.

Once connected to my Wi-Fi network, I could make voice calls, surf the Web, send texts and play with apps--easily. The quality of voice calls when connected to my Wi-Fi network was excellent--crystal clear. When connected to the cellular network, call quality was as good as any typical cellphone. [...]

Some jaded mobile market watchers may see Republic's emphasis on community as marketing hype being used to mask a highly restrictive wireless service. For heavy users of cellular networks, that might be the case. But Republic never tries to hide what it's offering and for whom. For many consumers, who want to be part of the smartphone generation, but can't afford the crushing costs of a data plan, Republic is an outstanding alternative.

Question -- why don't more cell companies or start-ups offer this service? Most of us spend 90% of our days around wifi, and yet only RW seems to be serious about taking advantage of this fact. Strange.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Most of us spend 90% of our days around wifi, and yet only RW seems to be serious about taking advantage of this fact. Strange.

RW works by connecting to available hotspots whenever possible. This has numerous issues, chief among which is that you don't actually own the infrastructure you rely on and therefore you are rather dependent on the prevailing attitude among those who do.

[Lemur]

[Y]ou don't actually own the infrastructure you rely on and therefore you are rather dependent on the prevailing attitude among those who do.

Sorta true but sorta not-true; I don't "own" every element of my wireless connection at home, but I do control it. Likewise, the IT department at work is not "owned" by me, but I can negotiate with them.

I don't know that ownership is the right word; let's try "access."

[Tellos Athenaios]

Sorta true but sorta not-true; I don't "own" every element of my wireless connection at home, but I do control it. Likewise, the IT department at work is not "owned" by me, but I can negotiate with them.

I don't know that ownership is the right word; let's try "access."

No, I'm talking about the company. AT & T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile et al own a chunk of infrastructure and have roaming agreements with others. So they know their costs and have contracts to cover the rest. So they have some form of long term security.

RW relies/abuses the goodwill of people running Wifi hotspots to keep its costs down (cost of Wifi is a lot less than the cost of buying capacity from telco). So if a lot/too many of Wifi hotspot owners/operators no longer fancy being RW's provider of cheap bandwidth and decide that either they want some of the pie or that RW isn't welcome on their networks... RW is up a creek without a paddle. Their plan only works if they can offload enough stuff on Wifi to cut costs and recover losses made on stuff delivered over traditional telco networks.

[Xiahou]

Also, aren't there some inherit security concerns with your phone latching onto any available open wifi network for making calls / transactions?

But I agree that their business model seems to depend on being able to leech other people's bandwidth. That doesn't sound like something I'd want to hitch my wagon to. I like the price and lack of contracts though.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Also, aren't there some inherit security concerns with your phone latching onto any available open wifi network for making calls / transactions?

If they don't encrypt the data, there would be. But this is a well understood technical issue and easily mitigated by running a VPN tunnel. It would be rather shocking if RW were so incompetent to not know that.

[Xiahou]

If they don't encrypt the data, there would be. But this is a well understood technical issue and easily mitigated by running a VPN tunnel. It would be rather shocking if RW were so incompetent to not know that.

It goes without saying that they'd encrypt their traffic somehow, but it still seems that connecting to any random AP leaves the door open to trouble more than being connected to a network of known cell towers. If the phone doesn't care how it connects to the network, I'd have to think it'd be more susceptible to spoofing or man in the middle type attacks. Additionally I'd think that (deliberately?) misconfigured APs could also cause trouble.

I can't claim to be a security expert, but depending on free/open wifi networks just doesn't sound like a practical (or wise) business model.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It goes without saying that they'd encrypt their traffic somehow, but it still seems that connecting to any random AP leaves the door open to trouble more than being connected to a network of known cell towers. If the phone doesn't care how it connects to the network, I'd have to think it'd be more susceptible to spoofing or man in the middle type attacks. Additionally I'd think that (deliberately?) misconfigured APs could also cause trouble.

That's not how GSM and derivative connections work, though. The hardware has to scan for available towers -- and latch on to a network. The security provided by GSM is actually optional (phones might warn about this), and even then the A5 algorithm cannot be considered secure against a determined adversary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1

[Xiahou]

That's not how GSM and derivative connections work, though. The hardware has to scan for available towers -- and latch on to a network. The security provided by GSM is actually optional (phones might warn about this), and even then the A5 algorithm cannot be considered secure against a determined adversary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1

I was thinking of CDMA with its PRLs. I forget that much of Europe is still using such backwards technology.
Indeed, GSM towers have already been spoofed. Comparing Republic to GSM users, I guess it's hard to get too worried on the security front. But you still have the whole notion of being dependent on wifi freeloading for the venture to be a success.

[Lemur]

But you still have the whole notion of being dependent on wifi freeloading for the venture to be a success.

A questionable use of the term "freeloading." 95% of my phone time is spent at my home or place of work. To declare that I would be "freeloading" on either of those networks seems silly on the face of it.

[Xiahou]

A questionable use of the term "freeloading." 95% of my phone time is spent at my home or place of work. To declare that I would be "freeloading" on either of those networks seems silly on the face of it.

Home- sure. But unless it's a "work" phone, it would be freeloading at your employer. Most places I've worked at had policies against connecting non-company devices to their network- that includes the wireless network.

[Lemur]

The main reason I get calls at work is work. I would assume that's true for most people since they are, you know, at work. So obviously you check with IT about plugging in your phone, and I would expect that 99% would have no problem, given that the streaming requirements of VOIP are so much smaller than the usual bandwidth hogs.

None of this helps if your IT department is managed by self-important, rule-spewing petty tyrants who love to say "no" for the joy of the word itself (and I've seen those situations more than once), but assuming your company has a reasonable policy and a non-trollish IT department, and assuming you intend to use your phone primarily for work, I don't see the disconnect.

-edit-

P.S.: Most businesses I deal with also maintain dual networks now; the company (or internal) one with the servers and so forth, and a "guest" or "public" one for clients/guests to connect straight to the internets, no internal access. If my IT peeps were to declare a VOIP handset to be an unacceptable security risk, I would simply ask to connect to the "guest" network. Problem solved.

Also, given how incredibly wonky and unreliable my company's softphone is, the IT dept. would have a hard time telling me I can't implement my own workaround. (I already do this, routing calls away from my near-useless company line and directly to my cell.)

[Crazed Rabbit]

My company doesn't have any wireless. One time clients came with laptops expecting to be able to plug into the wifi...

They also block youtube, totalwar.org, and craigslist.

And I'm kind of one of the non-IT software people for my department.

Anyways, I like Virgin mobile - $25 for unlimited data, texting, and 300 mins. Limited choice of phones though.

CR

[Lemur]

A network security wonk gets his hands on a RW handset and account, and dives in.

Short version: don't use it on unencrypted wifi. Long version: Lots of potential fixes if RW cares to make them.

[Xiahou]

A network security wonk gets his hands on a RW handset and account, and dives in.

Short version: don't use it on unencrypted wifi. Long version: Lots of potential fixes if RW cares to make them.

Wow, really? That's worse than I thought.

republic automatically sets up an unsecure SIP session the moment it connects to a wireless network

Pretty much anyone who cares to could see who you're calling and listen to both sides of your conversation.

It would be rather shocking if RW were so incompetent to not know that.

Shocked yet?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Shocked yet?

The “positive” way of looking at it: RW knew alright, but in typical corporate fashion decided not to. Saves costs, and who needs privacy (in the USA) anyway, eh?

Alternatively: break out those pitchforks... !

[Lemur]

But unless it's a "work" phone, it would be freeloading at your employer. Most places I've worked at had policies against connecting non-company devices to their network- that includes the wireless network.

Got into the beta, set up phone, talked to my non-trollish IT department, and they have zero problem with me connecting to the "public" wifi (which is still encrypted, but we give out the keys to clients and visitors).

Likewise, at home my network is (relatively) secured.

So within those networks, my phone convos can be listened to by anyone who really wants to hear it. I can live with that for $19 a month, unlimited everything, no contract.

Pitchforks will have to be procured and utilized by others. I'm happy.

-edit-

Here's the phone you get for the beta. It's waterproofed and ruggedized. So do they think I'm clumsy, or worse, athletic?

Also, FWIW, I pitched the phone to the head of IT as "new, dangerous, untested technology." This got a laugh and a permission slip.

[Xiahou]

@Lemur ,

Are you still using RW? The price appeal of this is becoming a strong draw when compared to my Verizon plan....

[Lemur]

Yep. The service is really getting better, roo, they're ironing out a lot of kinks.

Downside is that you have one whole phone to choose from, and it's running outdated Android.

But if you can tolerate that ... it's all-you-can-eat for $20/month.

[Xiahou]

Here's how I'm seeing it... currently with Verizon, I have a smart phone and my wife has a dumb phone. Together, with my discounts, I'm paying $118/mo.
With RW, we both get smartphones (albeit not cutting edge) for <$50/mo.... By my maths, we stand to save over $800/yr on RW.

Yeah sure, I lose Verizon's admittedly great network, but I've been places where I don't have a cell signal, but do have wifi- which means my RW phone would work where my Verizon doesn't in some instances. My contract with Verizon ends next June. I think I'll probably make the switch then, if I can't figure out how to do it sooner.

It looks like the RW phones cost $200 each. Are there any coupons/referals/anything to lessen that blow? That would really eat into the first year savings if I had to buy 2...

edit: I also see that you can't text pictures or videos over RW phones??? This could be a sticking point with the wife...

[Lemur]

[Lemur had a long response, which the wicked, evil Xiahou deleted when he mixed up the "edit" and "reply" buttons. Bottom line: It's hard out here for a mod.]

[Xiahou]

Um, yeah, there's two kinds of carrier for texting (can't for the life of me remember what they're called) and right now RW only supports one. So no texting pics. Which leaves you with emailing, Facebooking, or a hundred other ways to send a pic.

I think as a member I might be able to get a coupon. I will PM you my Real Life email addy, respond at leisure, and let me see what I can find in terms of coupons/referrals/discounts.

Even if I can't source anything, you'll recoup that $400 within six months. So ...

I think its SMS & MMS respectively.

By my math, even with my prorated early termination fee, I'd break even in 7 months if I switched. A bigger concern for me is the "wife acceptance factor". I know I'd be fine with a RW phone, but if she found it inconvenient or annoying, we'd have problems. How seamless is the service now? Also, is there any catch you're aware of as to how much non-wifi usage you're allowed? Currently, both my work and home have reliable wifi that I could use. But I have a 45 minute commute each way and I like to stream Slacker radio on occasion while commuting (or on other road trips) to break up the monotony.

Regardless, I'm probably a couple months away from making any move. We've been fastidiously holding to a budget (and reaping great benefits from it), which means that we don't make a purchase of that size without planning ahead. Also, rumor has it that new RW phones are on the way....

[Lemur]

That's the ticket, thanks, RW network currently supports SMS but not MMS. Although they say they're working on it.

Service is very seamless, from what I've seen and heard. It has made a lot of improvements in the last few months.

When it was starting, Republic made a lot of noise about usage and how they reserved the right to terminate people who hogged cell time and wouldn't moderate.

All of that talk has stopped. I think Republic has come to realize that the vast majority of users are using the phones primarily on Wifi, so there's just no issue. Haven't seen anyone bring it up in ages.

As for the MMS thing, this is the most recent info I found:

"Republic is upfront about one catch to its approach: It doesn’t support multimedia messaging. Trying to dispatch a picture or video message to a Republic number is just like trying to send an MMS to a Google Voice number; the message stalls out at the 'sending' phase and eventually fails with an error saying it could not be sent. Fixing this will require other carriers to support an updated MMS specification."

Also, rumor has it that new RW phones are on the way....

Gah! Spill the beans! I've been aching for a newer version of Android for months and months!

[Xiahou]

Here's the original announcement, waaaay back from March.
Other than that, I've only hear rumors. But they seem to suggest a new phone as early as September.

EDIT:I found this on their blog.

We’ve spent nearly two years on this problem, figuring out how to apply our unusual approach in an industry that doesn’t prioritize updating already released phones. And tomorrow we’ll discuss what we’ve learned and how we can apply those learnings to the new phones (whose names we will not reveal this week) and the DEFY XT.

Sounds like we'll get some news about the Defy tomorrow.... and something about new phones next week?

[Tsar Alexsandr]

I literally just bought a phone with these guys.

[Xiahou]

Awesome. Give us your impressions once you get to try it out...

[Lemur]

Sounds like we'll get some news about the Defy tomorrow.... and something about new phones next week?

You know, if they could just find a way to give me a more current version of Android, I'd be happy. My only real complaint about the Defy is the camera, and I can work with that by ... carrying a separate camera. This is why God invented messenger bags for dads.

A new phone might or might not be worth the coin to upgrade. But bringing the Android version into semi-current condition ... yes please.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Well as this is my first phone ever, it serves me well. The one issue is it does tend to have problems once you get away from wi-fi. It actually stopped working for a while because I was doing something on the computer at the same time. But our internet is really bad, so I don't fault the phone for that. Other than that I haven't had too many problems. And who doesn't have wi-fi connections these days?

[Lemur]

Here's what you do when faced with a terrible wifi connection: turn wifi off on the phone. Forces the phone to cell.