Noob questions.

[TheShakAttack]

Hello all. I thought I would post some questions I have that are pretty noobish. I’ll copy paste the best answer under the question so that any newcomers who have the same question have the benefit of an easy to read FAQ. If you think you have a better, or more accurate response to a question already answered, please post.

First question: how does fatigue affect fighting ability? More specifically, which stats does it affect?

Answer (from ASM): "No one really knows. However it reduces, attack, defense, and morale."
(from Ludens) : "As far as I am aware, the developers have never revealed the combat penalties of fatigue. From my own experience, I am pretty sure works the same way as in M1:TW. Low levels of fatigue have no effect, but after a certain level you get increasing penalties for attack and (later on) defence. At high levels there is also a morale penalty."

Second question : with light javelin cavalry, is it worthwhile to throw jav from flanks of heavy infantry given that they usually suffer a lot of losses when opponent detects their approach (arrows, slings etc)?

Third question : Apart from certain units (elephants, chariots, catas and infantry who like it au naturel etc), being flanked and being hit with cav charges, what else brings down morale/causes units to rout?

[LusitanianWolf]

Not sure, but I think it does affect defense skill at least.

[Lazy O]

First of all you are not a noob. Second, its best if you ask a modder that specific question :D

[TheShakAttack]

First of all you are not a noob. Second, its best if you ask a modder that specific question :D

Been playing EBO for less than a week. Pretty sure that means I'm a noob.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Been playing EBO for less than a week. Pretty sure that means I'm a noob.

And you are already better than half of the players! This guy is a prodigy!

[TheShakAttack]

And you are already better than half of the players! This guy is a prodigy!

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. :P

[LusitanianWolf]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.

I've been ausent from EBO from a few months so I dont know how you play but I dont think he' being sarcastic, MP is not that easy for most newcomers. I'm expecting to get badly beaten as soon as I get back to it

[antisocialmunky]

No one really knows. However it reduces, attack, defense, and morale.

[TheShakAttack]

No one really knows. However it reduces, attack, defense, and morale.

Thanks ASM.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yeah there was actually no sarcasm in my post. Well, maybe a hint with the prodigy statement:p But really, you play much better than most of us did one week in.

[Ludens]

As far as I am aware, the developers have never revealed the combat penalties of fatigue. From my own experience, I am pretty sure works the same way as in M1:TW. Low levels of fatigue have no effect, but after a certain level you get increasing penalties for attack and (later on) defence. At high levels there is also a morale penalty.

[-Stormrage-]

so tire your enemy with infantry waves then smash them with a cata charge when they're exuahsted, followedd up by 4 chevroned scythian axemen. non shall stand in my way.

[Lazy O]

Do note your enemy is not an idiot and will simply crush your waves and then your axemen and then your catas before you have finished blinking.

[Burebista]

so tire your enemy with infantry waves then smash them with a cata charge when they're exuahsted, followedd up by 4 chevroned scythian axemen. non shall stand in my way.

Good luck with that. As far as i remember , u tried something similar with Saka and failed

[TheShakAttack]

Please do not start insulting each other on this thread.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

To the third question: Local superiority of troop numbers lowers your enemies morale. So does having exposed flanks. So generally, you want your strongest units on the flanks so they won't be scared, and maybe a unit or two in reserve to cover the main line's flanks as well. Missile units falling back behind the line can also work here.

Obviously killing a unit causes a loss of morale as well. If you can kill 5-6 men in one second with a jav volley (or 10 with volleys from two units) and pull of a simultaneous flanking maneuver, there are many units that will simply cut and run at this point.

[TheShakAttack]

To the third question: Local superiority of troop numbers lowers your enemies morale. So does having exposed flanks. So generally, you want your strongest units on the flanks so they won't be scared, and maybe a unit or two in reserve to cover the main line's flanks as well. Missile units falling back behind the line can also work here.

Obviously killing a unit causes a loss of morale as well. If you can kill 5-6 men in one second with a jav volley (or 10 with volleys from two units) and pull of a simultaneous flanking maneuver, there are many units that will simply cut and run at this point.

Thanks very much for this. I have found this very helpful. I have usually been doing the opposite (keeping strongest units in center) and weaker units on flanks. Maybe if I keep 2 lines of weakfish infantry infantry in center, and elites/strongest on sides, it might be an improved tactic.

Your second paragraph is also very interesting. I did not consider how much more economical (casualties, fatigue) it might be to defeat enemy units in this manner rather than just overwhelming with brute force, killing and flanking.

[Lazy O]

Actually shak, remember our Luso vs Carthage battle, you might not have realised it, but you did the same thing.

[TheShakAttack]

Actually shak, remember our Luso vs Carthage battle, you might not have realised it, but you did the same thing.

I don't really remember that clearly. If I am not mistaken, it is the battle where I messed up my manouvering and decided on a wild charge because i felt i was badly caught out of position.

[Lazy O]

Yep thats the one, your charge was supported by plenty of javs which routed my left .

[antisocialmunky]

As far as I am aware, the developers have never revealed the combat penalties of fatigue. From my own experience, I am pretty sure works the same way as in M1:TW. Low levels of fatigue have no effect, but after a certain level you get increasing penalties for attack and (later on) defence. At high levels there is also a morale penalty.

I think the penalty hits after 'warmed up.' You can tell because 'warmed up' fighting 'tired' troops with the mouse hovering over a unit to get the 'who is winning' text, will change when the 'warmed up' troop goes to 'tired.'

The penalty to morale doesn't seem too much if there is any.

[Ludens]

I think you are referring to "winded" instead of "warmed up", but yes, that would be my guess. Also, in case I wasn't clear, the penalty increases with fatigue. In M1:TW it starts with a small attack penalty, but as the unit grows more tired, the attack penalty grows bigger and penalties for defence and (later) morale kick in.

[antisocialmunky]

Yeah but not armor which means that tired cataphracts couldn't be killed by tired sword infantry in vanilla.

[TheShakAttack]

I know there is a morale bonus if you "chev" a unit (give them +1 experience)- is there a clear guide as to how many "morale points" it increases by (i.e. something like +1 morale per +1 chev) ?

Secondly, does cheving archers/slingers really increase their missile attack by 1, or does it have other effects? I seem to recall someone saying that it increases accuracy rather than attack.

[Kival]

Experience point gives +1 Attack. +1 Defense and +2 Morale as far as I know. And that's it.

[The Celtic Viking]

Do you know where you got that information from?

[vartan]

Shak, chevrons do increase missile accuracy, as an increase in missile attack means an increase in missile accuracy (remember, lethality is at a constant value of 100%).

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Shak, chevrons do increase missile accuracy, as an increase in missile attack means an increase in missile accuracy (remember, lethality is at a constant value of 100%).

That's actually false Vartan. Missile accuracy is controlled by the number in the descr_missiles_new file. It's a constant number dependent on what the missile type is. Attack rating is just that, with lethality at a constant 1 value.

[vartan]

That's actually false Vartan. Missile accuracy is controlled by the number in the descr_missiles_new file. It's a constant number dependent on what the missile type is. Attack rating is just that, with lethality at a constant 1 value.

The higher the attack value, the more times the arrows hit their targets. Each hit is a guaranteed kill. More accuracy would entail more arrows reaching their targets. That raising the attack value for missile unit accomplishes this speaks on behalf of the higher accuracy.

[Kival]

No. Each hit is only a guaranteed kill if it comes over the defense of the enemy. Accuracy is a factor *before* the attack-defense calculation is made.