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  1. #1

    Default Factions of HRTW

    Ok here we will decide as a team which factions will be included in our mod. For now what we want to do with the mod is still undecided so I will list every possible faction that I can think of from Scotland to India, and give a brief description of each. I will list each faction by chances of them making the mod. Also I'm basing the time frame off 280 BC, if we decide to change that date I will update this thread
    Final Faction List
    1. The Roman Republic
    2. The Republic of Carthage
    3. The Seleucid Empire
    4. The Ptolemaic Empire
    5. The Antigonid Kingdom
    6. The Odrysian Kingdom
    7. The Kingdom of Pontus
    8. The Kingdom of Armenia
    9. The Kingdom of Epirus
    10. The Aetolian League
    11. The Bosporan Kingdom
    12. Parthia
    13. Numidia
    14. Gauls
    15. Germans
    16. Britons
    17. Iberians
    18. Sarmatians
    19. Illyrians
    20. Free People
    21. Rebels

    Now it gets harder. Here are other candidates for Kingdoms around the time)
    The Bosporan Kingdom - alive and well at this time
    The Kingdom of Atropatene - was around since 320's BC but there is not much information on them
    The Kingdom of Cappadocia - can't tell if they were independant or not in 280 BC
    The Kingdom of Bithynia - Was a growing power at this time
    The Kingdom of Iberia - Not Iberia Spain, but north of Armenia. Was a new kingdom about 20 years old but was very strong under it's King
    Colchis - Never was really unified
    Palmyra - Was actually an Independant City. The Seleucids left it alone when they took over Syria
    The Nabataean Kingdom - Nabataeans were around, but it did not become a Kingdom until 168 BC
    The Hasmonean Kingdom - did not become fully independant until 110 BC
    The Kingdom of Bactria - Appeared in 256 BC (only if we have extended map)
    The Indo-Greek Kingdom - was actually many small states fighting each other. Did not appear until 180 BC (only if we have extended map)
    The Kingdom of Epirus - alive and well, played major role in 280 BC
    Pergamum - Baby state. Formed one year before mod starts
    Aetolian League - Strong at the time
    Achaean League - Weak at the time but got stronger
    Cyrene - was independant under Mago
    Syracuse - Major Power in Sicily
    Sparta - Was still around, getting stronger
    Numidia - was not a kingdom yet, instead were two tribes fighting each other
    Mauretania - small kingdom at the time
    Parthia - was a nomadic people at the time but immensely strong (only if we have extended map)
    Mauryan Empire - would be misrepresented since they controlled all of India (only if we have extend map)
    Saba - Arabian Kingdom
    Ethiopia - African Kingdom

    Greek City States that were independent
    Athens
    Argos
    Rhodes
    Naxos
    Kydonia
    Byzantium
    Sinope
    Chersonesus
    Olbia
    Massilia
    other minor cities

    Barbarians
    Gauls - Helvetii, Insubres, Aedui, Arverni, Remi, Pictones, Belgae, Aquitani, Sequani etc
    Germans - Chatti, Cimbri, Teutones, Chauci, Eburones, Marcomanni, Quadi, Goths etc
    Iberians - Turdetani, Luistani etc
    Britons - Casse, Trinovates, Atrebates etc
    Dacians
    Thracians
    Illyrians
    Scythians
    Sarmatians
    Galatians
    Noricum
    Celt-Iberians
    Tylis
    Eastern Celts
    Bastarnae
    Massagetae
    Sakae

    We have many factions to choose from everyone.

    I suggest we think deeply about it. I have most of the list in my head but it's tough!

    I will come up with some lists and I will post them, I think we can make an accurate faction list. We must decide on a map though.

    Here is my first proposal:
    280 BC Extended map, cut off before India and before Arabia, meaning no Indian, Arabian, or African factions

    1. The Roman Republic
    2. The Republic of Carthage
    3. The Seleucid Empire
    4. The Ptolemaic Empire
    5. The Antigonid Kingdom
    6. The Kingdom of Thrace
    7. The Kingdom of Pontus
    8. The Kingdom of Armenia
    9. The Kingdom of Epirus
    10. Parthia
    11. Sarmatians
    12. Dacians
    13. Gauls
    14. Germans
    15. Iberians
    16. Independent Greek City States (Athens, Rhodes, Syracuse, Tarentum, Croton, Massilia, Sinope, Chersonesus, Olbia, Byzantium)
    17. Hellenic Kingdoms (Sparta, Pergamum, Cyrene, Bosporans, Bactria)
    18. Celts or Celtic Tribes (Celt-Iberians, Noricum, Galatians, Tylis, Belgae)
    19. Barbarians - bad name needs better one (Illyrians, Thracians, Britons, Luistani, Ligurians, Massagetae, Goths)
    20. Independent Kingdoms - (Bithynia, Cappadocia, Nabataeans, Numidians, Iberia, Atropatene, Palmyra)
    21. Rebels

    I don't think this list is good. It would work, as we could do what XGM did and make provincial campaigns, but it seems too messy. There are still some factions that should get represented better than by a super faction.

    I will keep brain storming. You guys should come up with your own lists as well


    ***FACTION LIST #2***
    1. The Roman Republic
    2. The Republic of Carthage
    3. The Seleucid Empire
    4. The Ptolemaic Empire
    5. The Antigonid Kingdom
    6. The Odrysian Kingdom (Thrace) (Or Illyrians)
    7. The Kingdom of Epirus (This faction will be in, it has to be no matter what)
    8. The Bosporan Kingdom (Or Bactria)
    9. Parthia
    10. Numidia (Or Mauretania)
    11. The Kingdom of Pontus
    12. The Kingdom of Armenia
    13. Gallic Faction (Yet to be completely determined)
    14. Britons
    15. Dacians (Or Illyrians)
    16. Sarmatians
    17. German Faction (I like Suebi Idea, what about Cimbri?)
    18. Iberians (Or Celt-Iberians)
    19. Sparta (Everyone likes Sparta, it's historical, and can have goal of unifying the Greeks)
    20. Free People (Second Rebel Faction, similar to Roma Surrectum)
    21. Rebels
    Last edited by ahowl11; 01-19-2012 at 15:45.

  2. #2
    Ancient Briton Member Edorix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Factions of HRTW [Please Sticky]

    The Rebels are already standing in for the Independent Kingdoms/Peoples; I think that given the faction limit at 21 we have to really exploit that by giving them lots of AoR/hidden resource units only recruitable by them in certain places, to try and balance things out in order for them to better represent the "mini-factions", but I don't think two rebel factions is necessarily better. Here's my suggestion - obviously my impulse is to make as many barbarian factions as possible, but that's not very likely to appeal to anyone else so I have limited myself. :P

    Mediterranean civilisations
    1. Rome
    2. Carthage
    3. Seleucids
    4. Egypt
    5. Macedon
    6. Thrace
    20. Greek Cities

    Eastern
    7. Pontus
    8. Armenia
    9. Parthia
    10. Nabataea

    Barbarians
    12. Sarmatians
    13. Dacia/Getae
    14. Gauls/Celts (includes the entire Gaulish-Celtic nation, but excluding Britain/Ireland and Spain who were all a bit different)
    15. Suebi (the largest Germanic tribe; starts out in South Prussia area but should have the capacity to expand West to the Rhine before the Gauls in order to be able to rival them. A "Germans" faction is inappropriate as they had no such large-scale common identity at this time, that only emerged during the Roman Iron Age.)
    16. Iberians
    17. Celtiberians (Spain was in a sort of extreme turmoil during this period, in a constant state of warfare, not just at the tribal or national level but even between individual hillfort cities and clans. It was also extremely mineral-rich and had a large and fast-growing population, and it took the Romans three hundred years to conquer. Three factions in Spain is really the minimum. The Celtiberians were a logical choice. The Lusitanians become a Rebel minifaction, and the Basque/Aquitanians go with the Iberians.)
    18. Britons (I don't think choosing a single tribe could possibly represent the whole of Britain, and Britons did recognise a loose common identity, they lived on a certain island and had certain cultural traits that others didn't - much like the Greeks, they recognised their common culture but weren't exactly united.)
    19. Numidia

    21. Rebels


    That leaves 11. for anyone I've forgotten: I was thinking the Saka(/East Scyths), Bactria, or Epirus...
    Last edited by Edorix; 01-14-2012 at 11:28.
    ~ Edorix
    Ancient Briton


  3. #3

    Default Re: Factions of HRTW [Please Sticky]

    You make a good point about the rebels. I just want them to be active, you know? Not just sitting around waiting to be conquered. I like your list.
    However:
    Nabataeans were not really unified into a Kingdom (but it seems like everyone wants them) I would substitute them for The Bosporan Kingdom
    For your empty faction slot I would add Epirus, as they played a huge role.

    About the Greek Cities:
    It is almost necessary to have a Greek cities faction. If we did they should be a super faction

  4. #4

    Default Re: Factions of HRTW [Please Sticky]

    My factions: using Mundus Magnus map

    Western Mediterranean
    1.- Celt-Iberians
    2.- Republic of Carthage
    3.- Roman Republic

    Aegean Basin:
    4.- Kingdom of Macedon
    5.- Kingdom of Epirus
    6.- Achaean League

    Eastern Mediterranean:
    7.- Ptolemaic Empire
    8.- Seleucid Empire

    North European tribes:
    9.- Arverni
    10.- Cimbri

    Steppe regions:
    11.- Sarmatians

    Black sea basin:
    12.- Bosporan Kingdom
    13.- Getae

    Far eastern regions:
    14.- Parthia (Arsacid Dynasty)
    15.- Greco-Bactrian Kingdom (emergent, powerful trough scripting?)
    16.- Far eastern faction (Yuezhi?)

    Now, since there are some regions that might seem a little bit empty (Gaul, germania, european steppe, etc) my suggestion is to have 2 independent people factions. Why? Because that way we can add them into several locations and simulate the constant tribe-wars of the "barbarian factions".
    17.- Independent People 1 ("civilized"-greek)
    18.- Independent people 2 ("barbarian")

    ¿?
    19.- Shadowing factions? (up to 3 might be shadowed by this one)
    20.- Shadowing factions? (up to 3 might be shadowed by this one)

    21.- Rebels. Using "shadowing faction" we can make 3 playable factions to have issues with the loyalty of their family members/generals

    Reasons to use this system: First, if you guys have played enought a mod (or even vanilla rtw) you'll notice that in most games certains factions dominate determined regions and overpower others (seleucid gets most of the times overpowered if there's a Bactria and Parthia faction), in EB Arverni overpower Aedui, etc. So this system allows those factions to grow almost exactly like that (it's gonna happen anyways). Then, what's the difference? Well for Arverni for example, we can shadow them with barbarian independent people, hellenized factions with civilized IP, etc, beacause when a factions gets destroyed in a mod that factions slot gets "wasted", this way we can have constant re-use of factions slots. Also i think so far no other mod has ever had 9 freackin factions with loyatly issues (that's how many we could have with my 2 Independent peoples system).

    Even if this system is not used at all, i'm 100% against putting in a briton faction, Armenia and Pontus as a faction oon their own. Without attempting to offend anyone none of those are worth enough for the time period of this mod.
    And last, even if my factions doesn't make it at the end, please consider the 2 Independent factions slots, since that would REALLY exploit the BI engine (emergent factions and loyalty)
    Last edited by Xpartacus; 01-14-2012 at 19:38.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Factions of HRTW [Please Sticky]

    Reasons to use this system: First, if you guys have played enought a mod (or even vanilla rtw) you'll notice that in most games certains factions dominate determined regions and overpower others (seleucid gets most of the times overpowered if there's a Bactria and Parthia faction), in EB Arverni overpower Aedui, etc. So this system allows those factions to grow almost exactly like that (it's gonna happen anyways). Then, what's the difference? Well for Arverni for example, we can shadow them with barbarian independent people, hellenized factions with civilized IP, etc, beacause when a factions gets destroyed in a mod that factions slot gets "wasted", this way we can have constant re-use of factions slots. Also i think so far no other mod has ever had 9 freackin factions with loyatly issues (that's how many we could have with my 2 Independent peoples system).


    I like it

    I don't think choosing a single tribe could possibly represent the whole of Britain....

    This is tue and it is as same for the other factions-Gauls,Germans and so on...

    MY FACTION LIST :

    1. The Roman Republic - Automatically gets in of course-ROMAN
    2. The Republic of Carthage - Automatically In-CARTHAGINIAN
    3. The Seleucid Empire - Automatically In-GREEK
    4. The Ptolemaic Empire - Automatically In-GREEK
    5. The Antigonid Kingdom - Automatically In (major questions though)-GREEK
    6. The Kingdom of Thrace - Automatically In (major questions though)-GREEK/BARBARIAN
    7. The Kingdom of Pontus - Automatically In-GREEK/EASTERN
    8. The Kingdom of Armenia - Automatically In-GREEK/EASTERN
    9.The Kingdom of Iberia-instead of Parthia-EASTERN
    10.The Kingdom of Epirus-GREEK
    11.The Kingdom of Bithynia-GREEK
    12.Aetolian League-GREEK-Instead of TGCS
    13.Germans-BARBARIAN
    14.Gauls-BARBARIAN
    15.Britons-BARBARIAN
    16. Sarmatians-BARBARIAN
    17. Nabataea-EASTERN
    18.Illyrians-BARBARIAN
    19.Mauretania-instead of Numidia-EASTERN(I suppose,eventhough it is not east)
    20.Celt-Iberians-BARBARIAN/CARTHAGINIAN
    21.rebels-MIX

    Here,I have made the best list I could.

    Just try to imagine our map with this factions if you know where are they situated.

    I want to point my view of things to all of you guys though :


    1.As Edorix said,choosing one tribe to represent the whole Gaul is not such a good idea for me.One tribe to represent 20 or more tribes that existed just doesn't go with me.

    2.I do not prefer THE GREEK CITIES as they are not historical from one view(which I will explain to you all),but they historical when it comes to independant cities and different stile hoplites...

    The problem is as I was trying to explain it to ahowl :

    For example when you play with them you control Athens and Sparta(among the other cities)and you build armies in those cities and put them into one roaster and the fight against the Macedonians or whatever.That is silly because Sparta and Athens were at war with each other and so where the other city-states between themselves and they are very inacurrate to play as.

    The only historical solution(thinking of gameplay also) that I found here was to place AETOLIAN LEAGUE instead of them,they would also be able to recruit all those fancy hoplites that hameleona and me have made...They would spice up things as there would be more battles in those areas especially with Epirus in the West and The Antigonid Kingdom in the North...


    3.DACIANS ?...For me they are fun to play,but there is no need to make them if you already have The Kingdom of Thrace,because Dacians were a Thracian tribe.

    4.INDEPENDENT KINGDOMS OR PEOPLE(Bithynia, Cappadocia, Nabataeans, Numidians, Iberia, Atropatene, Palmyra)-I do not think this is good because 1)It is like you are at the same time playing as GAULS,MACEDONIA,ROME,ETC. as one factions and I think that is bad for historical acurracy and gameplay...
    Last edited by Asgaroth; 01-15-2012 at 02:58.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Factions of HRTW

    Asgaroth, you make some good points.

    UPDATED OP, my second faction list, in my opinion much better and more flexible

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