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Thread: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

  1. #31
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Rome's cities in the beginning of the game
    Ahowl 11 is choosing the cities-Rome will have three cities at the start-look at the first post.

    Also, Romans had no archers, except for the auxiliary or sometimes mercenary ones.
    After the Marian reforms I am quite sure that they did.

  2. #32
    Member Member TwoKnives's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I meant the pre-marian army. As for the cities, i was making a suggestion.

  3. #33
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I meant the pre-marian army. As for the cities, i was making a suggestion.
    Ok then.Thank you and great...

    I just wanted to say that I am not the one that decides what cities are for who.

  4. #34
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic


    By hameleona_666 at 2012-01-22
    Leves

    PS: I would love someone to define poor. A shield is not that hard to make.

  5. #35
    Member Member Ave_Oz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgaroth View Post
    No.
    my bad

  6. #36
    Member Member TwoKnives's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    And there comes hameleona with another simple, but realistic and nice unit. Good job!!

  7. #37
    Member Member Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    @hameleona -Fantastic...:)
    When the camel {S}thinks,it is time to leave the oassis!

  8. #38
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Great Work Hameleona, that unit looks perfect. Well, based on what I read, the Leves and Accensi were the poorest class of citizens, and in the Camillan Army, the soldiers had to supply their own weapons and armor, so I do not believe the Leves could have afforded a shield. Plus I think it looks better
    @Hameleona, when all the Romans are finished can you upload them for me to download? Thanks, and by the way as you can see I have given instructions on each unit. If you need visuals, I can look for them as well.

  9. #39
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    So I have made the funditores...Here you are ahowl11.You can download them.

    What is changed ?

    I have made the shield to look a little better-it is wooden now,at least it looks wooden and I have placed the symbol of Roman god Saturnus.


    If somebody could download them and make a screen it would be nice,as I do not know how,thanks!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #40
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I talked to Quinn Inuit from TWC about the reforms, here is his response:

    It won't weigh down the game, but it can be difficult. I recommend looking to the EB traits and script as a guide.

    One key question is how you wish to cause the reform to occur. That controls the difficulty. I chose to enable that reform by requiring Rome to conquer some Gallic provinces. Anything involving traits is going to be much more complex.

    ExRM v4.0 will have about ten reforms for various factions, with two getting two. That's rather more complex than I wanted it to be, but we wanted to make certain things happen and that was the only way.
    I believe once the Romans have captured all of Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, and Malta that the reform would occur. Now I must find out how to do that. I will ask him and update this post once I find out how to do it

  11. #41

    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    i've previously made a faction symbol for the romans that looks like thisClick image for larger version. 

Name:	roman.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	15.1 KB 
ID:	3474 it's kinda the same thing as vanila but a more stylised eagel also
    it was one of my first faction
    symbols ever made i could also make the banners too if needed
    Last edited by Pharaoh rameses II; 01-22-2012 at 20:14.

  12. #42
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    i
    've previously made a faction symbol for the romans that looks like thisClick image for larger version. Name: roman.jpg Views: 0 Size: 15.1 KB ID: 3474 it's kinda the same thing as vanila but a more stylised eagel also
    it was one of my first faction
    symbols ever made i could also make the banners too if needed
    The Spartan Warlord and me have already made the symbols for all factions but they weren't vanilla,they were similar to the one you have made...So I think that we will make vanilla symbols.

  13. #43
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    The Symbol on the opening post is the one that we will be using

  14. #44
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I suggest you rethink the feathers - if i put two feathers (as it should be) they won't be easy to be seen (there is a broad angle that they aren't visible). That is the reason the samnite warrior in RTR has three feathers.

  15. #45
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Three feathers is fine, I don't care how many he has but the Hastati and Principes need feathers

  16. #46
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    You are screwing the shiledwall hoplites and going back to vanilla phalanx?

  17. #47
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    No? Why would I do that? I just said that they fought in the phalanx formation

  18. #48
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    cuz if you use shieldWall the hoplites will charge with swords. No way around that. So if you want them to fight with spears - no need of secondary weapon.

  19. #49
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Ok, i have crubled to a wall. Cresned helmed?

    Edit: Don't bother... just see the other thread...
    Last edited by hameleona; 01-22-2012 at 23:38.

  20. #50
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    For the Livy (also called Camillian) and Polybian Armies: (Sources, Roman Army at Time of Punic War by Nic Fields, and a bit of Book 10 of Livy's Ab Urbe Condita

    There was an argument way back at the start of this mod for whether we were for or against this idea; ultimately it was decided that it would be better if we didn't have these reforms.(I was for it, but now I am opposed to it). One of the arguments by Primo was that the Romans already have too many units,

    Furthermore, the changes from the Livy Army was not just the addition of velites, and the removal of the classes such as Leves and Rorarii. The equipment of each of the Hastati, Principes, and Triarii probably changed too, and the organization of each men (the amount of each men in a maniple).

    We could partially simulate this through having the Polybian units in a higher tier of barracks than the Livy units. The Hastati, Principes, and maybe the Triarii could also be given automatic weapon and defence upgrades when you recruit them from the higher tiers of barracks. (like in BI)

    However,it would not be too ahistorical if we left them out. The Roman army was always evolving, and I believe the Polybian Army started in early 290 BC, with the pila being used in the Third Samnite War, all the way to the Velites being used in the Second Punic War.

    Edit: As for the Funditores, they were just auxlliary slingers, such as those from the Balearic islands. There is not need to make a new unit for them

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...ght=funditores

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Caesar nowhere gives the number of his auxilia, and it was doubtless as various as that of his cavalry. They were the light-armed soldiers (milites levis armaturae), the archers (sagittarii), and the slingers (funditores). See Figs. 30, 104, 105, 115. The best slingers came from the Balearic Islands, the best archers from Crete and Numidia.
    Last edited by Lord President of Gallifrey; 01-23-2012 at 03:06.

  21. #51
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Well its not a big deal really, here is what Quinn Inuit said regarding the reforms:

    That's a pretty easy one. Here's part of our script. I recommend just changing some of the names for your own use. I can't remember if this has been tested, though...

    Code:

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    ; 6.0 --Reforms-- ;
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    ;;; 6A - Roman Reforms ;;;
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    ;Roman Reforms:
    ;Roman_Reforms 0 = Camillan
    ;Roman_Reforms 1 = Polybian
    ;Roman_Reforms 2 = Marian
    ;Roman_Reforms 3 = They're done.

    declare_counter Roman_Reforms

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    ;;; Polybian Reforms ;;;
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    declare_counter PolybianCondition

    monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType romans_julii
    and I_TurnNumber > 99

    ; Player gets the reforms after 200 B.C. regardless.
    if I_TurnNumber > 239
    and I_LocalFaction romans_julii
    set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
    set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    ; AI reforms automatically after 238BC
    if I_TurnNumber > 168
    and not I_LocalFaction romans_julii
    set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    ; Player-triggered reforms
    if I_SettlementOwner Mediolanium = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Patavium = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Bononia = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Iuvavum = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Moudon = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Lugdunum = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Narbo_Martius = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Toletum = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Numantia = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Caesada = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    if I_SettlementOwner Obila = romans_julii
    inc_counter PolybianCondition 1
    end_if

    ;Check if Reforms Conditions are met
    if I_CompareCounter PolybianCondition > 3
    console_command create_building Rome "Polybian_Gov"
    set_counter Roman_Reforms 1
    set_counter PolybianReformsMessage 1
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    ;Reset Counters
    set_counter PolybianCondition 0

    ;Cleanup
    if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 2
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    ;Cleanup
    if I_CompareCounter Roman_Reforms = 3
    terminate_monitor
    end_if

    end_monitor
    So the Romans did not have their own slingers? Less units for them then.
    Last edited by ahowl11; 01-23-2012 at 07:41.

  22. #52
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    As for the Funditores, they were just auxlliary slingers, such as those from the Balearic islands. There is not need to make a new unit for them.

    I did not make a new unit for them.I just changed them to make them better looking and more interesting.

  23. #53
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Recruitment/Government System for the Roman Republic (historical blah-blah-blah way)
    hameleonas Edition. Ver. 0.5

    (Note 0: All the turns needed to build stuff are given with 4 turns per year script in mind)

    (Note 0a: Ok, so i'll try making this as a guide more, than as a table with stuff, so that everyone gets the idea.)

    So, you have taken your first city with the armies of the SPQR. And you have to make a decision - what are you going to do with the province.
    Well, there are two main ways to do it.

    The Assimilation way - make the city a full part of the Roman Republic.
    After you have captured a city you'll see the option to build the building "Province Pacification", witch takes just one turn, but gives you +1 bonus to PO (see the end for bonus explanation), but gives you -1 PG. This is the basic building for installing a new government. So you hit End Turn, and on the next turn, the province does not rebel so much, but still does not like you. And you still can't recruit anything, except some useless levy troops (See note 1).

    And now you see, that you have a choice between 3 buildings: Assimilation, Subjected State and Allied State. Don't need to tell you, that Assimilation is your choice. Assimilation takes the severe 6 turns to be completed, but keeps the PO bonus from the "Province Pacification" and removes the PG penalty, and gives you full access to the AOR units (depending on the MIC levels) and buildings. Most of you would stop here, but if you want those legions, there is one more step.

    After you have assimilated the province, you can build the "Roman Citizenship" building. A dread project, that takes 10 turns to complete, but gives you additional +1 PO, trade bonus 1, law bonus 1, and PG bonus 1. But most importantly gives you the option to recruit legions!

    The Subjection Way - make the province one of your puppets.
    Ok, so we build the "Province Pacification", then we go for the second building: Subjected State. It takes only 3 turns to build, and gives you trade bonus 2, PG bonus -1 and PO bonus +1. It does not let you build some structures (mostly 4yh and 5th level health and pop. buildings), but lets you recruit most of the AOR units in the province (no elite ones). Cheap and fast way to get troops, but you'll always need a strong garrison, cuz of the low public order.

    The Last Way... - make them allies.
    Ok, so we build the "Province Pacification", then we go for the second building: Allied State. It takes only 1 turn to build, gives you trade bonus 2, PO bonus 5 and PG bonus -5. It gives you All the AOR troops, but does not give you many building options in the trade sphere.

    Note 1: Every province MUST have a generic troop tire 0, so that we can run away from the rebellion CTD. This can be adjusted in time.
    Bonuses: PO - Public Order, PG - population Growth. All the numbers are game-dependent. Bonus 1 gives you the lowest possible bonus of that type.


    Recruitment/Government System for the Roman Republic (Simple Way)
    hameleonas Edition. Ver. 1.0

    The recruitment of AOR troops happens from a new building complex with five levels (called Extraordianrii recruitment center). Nothing more. Simple as that.

    So, witch one will it be?

  24. #54
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    First one for sure. It is an excellent idea, and many people will enjoy having the options. Adds strategy.

  25. #55
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Well, it's your mod.

    Witch way will we use for recruitment dependencies - RTR (with the bug) or EB (with the thousands of lines of code and MIC's re-building)?

  26. #56
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Everything what you two decide by me is ok,but I do not like the fact that you have to wait 10 + turns to get the province under your control...

    That is one of the main reasons why I hated RTR,because that killed the gamplay...So I suggest we don't do any building or process that takes 10 + turns to get the region under your control.

    And remember,we are not aming for realism,just for the balance between gameplay and historical acurracy.

  27. #57
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    well i like asgaroth's point.. the first idea is good but maybe not so many turns to create it?

  28. #58
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    but maybe not so many turns to create it?
    At least that is easy to change-just change the time that takes the buildings to create....


    RTR had three phases of bringing the province under full control-

    But it was like this(and it so bad):

    The phases are represented as buildings of course

    1 phase-Brings you some public orde but no units can be recruited,not a single one(2 turns)
    2 phase-brings you more public order and you can train one type of a unit-some simple unit like barbarian warband(4 turns)
    3 phase-Brings you even more public order and income and you can now train tree type of units now and the are all native or better to say auxilia-slinger unit,spear unit,skirmish uni(javelin or peltast)...(8 turns)

    After all that you can build barracks which take 8 turns to build and only after this can you recruit your roman units...

    SO basicly you have to wait 14 turns to bring the settlement or better to say 22 turns until you can recruit your first roman unit...

    This sucks so hard...

    I would only like 6 turns maximum for everything together instead of 22 turns.

  29. #59
    Member Member Magneto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by ahowl11 View Post
    well i like asgaroth's point.. the first idea is good but maybe not so many turns to create it?
    How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.

  30. #60
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.

    I like the idea,we need to see what ahowl has to say but is that hard to do ?

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