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Thread: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

  1. #61
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I like the idea as well

  2. #62
    Member Member Magneto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgaroth View Post
    I like the idea,we need to see what ahowl has to say but is that hard to do ?
    I am not sure. It should be possible using this command:

    SettlementBuildingFinished xyz

    I just donīt know if you can test this in every city separately - otherwise you would have the consequences globaly. If you can, than it would be a matter of copy&paste the quite easy script for every city and every faction. Maybe 2h of work all in all.

    Edit: Just read a bit and it is possible.
    Last edited by Magneto; 01-29-2012 at 20:08.

  3. #63
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Ok but we need to make thing by thing as ahowl said we would do.You weren't here so I will explain in short notes :

    As you can see we are doing faction by faction-everything about it :

    So we have done all units for The Roman Republic(Well most of them as I have to make the triarii and we are done with that)-Hameleona and Ahowl are still discussing the recruitment of units.
    Next we need to make all the cities in the Italy area and give them to rome.

    So if you can first check if the units work,please.We need to go step by step so we don't start 2000 things at once and finish doing none.We have lost half of a year and we didn't do anything.After that if you have time or will check this what we were talking about...Thanks.

  4. #64
    Member Member Magneto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgaroth View Post
    Ok but we need to make thing by thing as ahowl said we would do.You weren't here so I will explain in short notes :

    As you can see we are doing faction by faction-everything about it :

    So we have done all units for The Roman Republic(Well most of them as I have to make the triarii and we are done with that)-Hameleona and Ahowl are still discussing the recruitment of units.
    Next we need to make all the cities in the Italy area and give them to rome.

    So if you can first check if the units work,please.We need to go step by step so we don't start 2000 things at once and finish doing none.We have lost half of a year and we didn't do anything.After that if you have time or will check this what we were talking about...Thanks.
    Iīm checking right now, no worrys (multitasking :)) I didnīt really start it, the 1 minute research is ok.

  5. #65
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Iīm checking right now, no worrys (multitasking :)) I didnīt really start it, the 1 minute research is ok.

    Thanks friend...

    In this way we are sure that we have completed something...

  6. #66
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I'm actually against having a government building (I'm against half the stuff in this mod but whatever)

    But if we do, make the build times short 1-2 turns (like Magneto said).

    However, a question to Ahowl: Are we going to use scripting? If we do, are we going to keep it to a minimum?

  7. #67
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    depends, we will have to cross that bridge when we get there

  8. #68
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    How about that: Every "Building" or political decision will take 1 turn to complete, BUT we script consequences of these desicions, like stronger/weaker trade for a few turns, happier/unhappier population ... that would on one hand still allow fast gameplay, but on the other hand we would add a certain realism.
    You can do such a script? I love the idea if you can do it! Oh, man, how much stuff can we do then... I love it. The main reason for the long building time is that - to make you hold the province with a garrison. So, when you have time, we can discuss what can be done, and what can't.

    PS: My idea, actually is different from both RTR and EB - they let you first build the government, then the MIC's. I let you build the things separately, so that you DON'T have to wait so long. I'll post some more info later.
    PPS: @Ahowl! I need an answer:

    Witch way will we use for recruitment dependencies - RTR (with the bug) or EB (with the thousands of lines of code and MIC's re-building)?
    Last edited by hameleona; 01-29-2012 at 23:15.

  9. #69
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    which is better?

  10. #70
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    None. The RTR way is faster and simpler. But you can get a CTD, when you open the building browser, see the building details and right-click on the possible units for recruitment. Hard to make it happen but possible. EB way is very time-consuming to create. And will make the player re-build the MIC (barracks, stables or archery range) to get the reformed units.
    Last edited by hameleona; 01-30-2012 at 00:27.

  11. #71
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I guess RTR seems better to me

  12. #72
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I guess it's for all of us - yes, there is a way to ctd the game, but i don't know... i found that function of rtw when i learned about the CTD :lol:

  13. #73
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    well hopefully we find it while testing.. going to go to bed. I pitch tomorrow and we are two weeks away from our first game of the season. Thank God for baseball

  14. #74
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Well, since in Bulgaria is 10 AM i'll just work on the recruitment system for some time. Expect version 0.6 soon :lol:

  15. #75
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    After a lot of thinking and doing other stuff, i think i got it.

    First we have one basic step:

    I. Province Pacification
    This is the basic, one turn government. Represents the military government that takes place by the time. Gives a nice bonus to Public Order, but does not do a good thing for the economy - it damages the trade and taxation levels quite hard. Oh, and since "pacification" basically means kill many people till they learn their lesson - it damages the Population Growth. After you build it you must make the choice for future government.

    As i have said, the government system will be based on tree choices:

    1. Assimilation - Slow, really slow process (This SHOULD be 10+ turns. Historical AND game-play reasons - romans had one major flaw before the marian reforms, and that was the few places that they could recruit legions. This could always be made faster after the reforms. But just take a look at how much time it took to unite Italy.). It should be tree step process - 1. Pacification, 2. Romanization and 3. Roman Citizenship.

    Romanization is a not an easy process. It is actually the Long part of the assimilation process, but the building itself does not need to take long for building. Actually it can be just one turn (to represent the start of the process). Not an easy task, so keep in mind that that is what is behind the process. It damages the Public Order (removing the bonus from pacification), and Population Growth (even further than Pacification). But since you just need to remove the people that does not learn their lesson, you can sell them in slavery - so you have a nice trade bonus. Oh, yes, and it gives you all the Basic AOR units (see the end of the post for more).

    (exact values for the bonuses are going to be given soon)

    After the romanization comes the granting of citizenship. So for now we have spent two turns, and it seems easy. But now we have to invest 6 (i prefer it to be even 8) turns to finish the process. Finishing it gives you all the good stuff you need - roman legionary troops, solid trade bonuses, solid public order bonuses, but it still damages the population growth a little. It stops the recruitment of AOR troops in the settlement - the province is now fully roman one.

    2. Military Occupation
    - i changed the name, but the idea is still the same - you get high bonuses on taxes and trade, but you need a strong garrison. Not only that, but you can not build some buildings above level 4-5. For now i suggest those buildings to be: Temples, Sanatization, Arenas (not shore, but it is an occupied territory after all). It will enable the recruitment of all basic and advanced AOR troops. Installation - 4 turns.

    3. Allied State
    - basically you make them your allies. We all know what happens to roman allies - they have to supply troops and pay taxes, but have a lot of freedom. So except the MIC's, no other military buildings are going to be available (for now we do not have such buildings). Also you can not build any arenas. You will get a stable public order bonus, a low tax/trade bonus and a no population growth penalty. Maybe even a bonus. Do not think that this is so good - high population, causes rebellions, after all. You will have the possibility to recruit all basic, advanced and elite AOR troops. Installation - 2 turns.

    Another option for the allies:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    It could be on tree stages, each one increasing their loyalty, but decreasing the income. Example:
    3.1. Puppet State - you get +6 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, 0 Public order, and Basic AOR troops.
    3.2. Protectorate - you loosen the strings of your allies: you get +4 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, +2 Public order, and Basic and Advanced AOR troops.
    3.3. Allied City State - further giving the locals autonomy: you get +2 tax/trade bonus, +2 Population Growth, +4 Public order, and All AOR troops.

    juts an idea. We should see if we can make those buildings free to swap between the close ones (i.e. from 3.1. to 3.2. to 3.3. to 3.2. to 3.1)- from one to another at any given time. It will deepen the game-play A LOT, but it may be hard to create.



    AOR unit classes:

    Basic - AOR troops from the light infantry types (both melee and ranged). Light cavalry for regions with cavalry tradition. (tire 0 and 1 for melee and ranged unit)
    Advanced - AOR troops from the common type in the region - medium and heavy infantry and so on, but no elite units (no units from tire 4&5 for infantry, no units from tire 3&4 for cavalry and ranged units)
    Elite - well, the best units in the region. Stuff like noble units, ellite corps and so on. technically and in a historical way of view you can get spartans if you wan to that way. I know that no one likes the idea, but it is logical - they are your loyal allies - they'll send you SEALs if they can.

    I think that is the new way i see the government/recruitment system.

  16. #76
    Member Member Magneto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Quote Originally Posted by hameleona View Post
    ...
    This is too complicated. I would propose something simpler:

    We make the barracks now different buildings for every culture, i.e. you canīt upgrade an barbarian barrack with a +1 leveled roman one.

    I think I am going to explain it with an example:

    We now have a gallic barrack. It can recruit all units of the barbarians. Now we take the city it is located at with Rome.

    Rome has now two choices:

    1) Keep the barrack. Rome can now recruit AOR Units (depending on the level of the barrack, of course). It CANīT upgrade the barrack thus this way wouldnīt be advisable if it is just a lvl. 1 barrack.

    A Gallic Barrack gives a happiness boost in the city for every faction but the barbarians. This simulates the Peopleīs Happiness about keeping their own goverment. Other bonuses/penaltys can be added, too.

    2) Destroy the barracks and build roman ones. This would result in a Happiness/Growth penalty till a certain level of the barracks are reached (like the 3., but that can also be discussed). This would simulate the assimilation part. AOR Units either canīt be recruited, or just the weaker ones. Building high level barracks takes a long time, which also correctly portrays history.

  17. #77
    Member Member Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    @Magneto - I agree.
    We shoud NOT GET TOO DAMN COMPICATED ABOUT THIS,shoud not this mod be diffirent from the others,just becose it's suppose to be vannila?
    When the camel {S}thinks,it is time to leave the oassis!

  18. #78
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    1. Pacification, 2. Romanization and 3. Roman Citizenship.
    Nice and historical stages of ocuppation-we should use this three names for the stages.


    And in global a nice system,but again I have to say that is tooo many turns until you can build your own roman troops and again it kills the game...

    An Primo's advice is also nice but I think this could be good and symple :


    So you have three stages of occupation,lets call them like hameleona did because they sound the bast like that.They are all represented by buildings called by hameleona's names and the building could look like this.

    Town-/
    Large town-Pacification-enables you to build the bulidng called pacification(it takes you 1 turn to build it-some AOR units are able to recruit)
    Minor city-Romanization-(It takes you 2 turns to build-enables you to build most AOR units and here you can start building roman unit buildings like archery range,stables,barracks)
    Large City-Roman Citizenship-(it takes you 2 turns to build-enables you all AoR units and higher rank buildings for higher rank roman units.)
    Huge city-enables you the best barracks,archery ranges and stables.



    But when I think I would rather leave it vanilla because it is the bast for gameplay...I would just make auxilia troops for the romans and I would enable merecenary units of different sorts for all factions...


    It is your will guys and your chice.I just don't like the fact of having more AOR units in Roman army then the romans themselves,at least that they wear roman armore a weapons like the auxilia.
    Last edited by Asgaroth; 02-02-2012 at 21:08.

  19. #79
    Member Member TwoKnives's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I vote for Asgaroth's idea. Not too simple, but not complicated either.

  20. #80
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I vote for Asgaroth's idea. Not too simple, but not complicated either.
    Thank you TwoKnives.

    The point is that Hameleona and Magneto were both right so a put together their best ideas into one...That is symple,doesn't harm the gameplay and keeps the game historical acurrate.

  21. #81
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Hay, i'm just following orders - ahowl wanted the complicated variant and i made it in a way, that it could be interesting in game-play. If you ask me i would keep it 100% vanilla + one more MIC for AOR units.

  22. #82
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Hay, i'm just following orders - ahowl wanted the complicated variant and i made it in a way, that it could be interesting in game-play. If you ask me i would keep it 100% vanilla + one more MIC for AOR units.
    We are just talking,don't get upset...The best thing is that we discuss it and see the negative and positive sides of both...

    And I agree with you on the vanilla part...It is best the way it is...I also think that we should keep it that way,it makes the game so much alive and rapid-VANILLA mod...

  23. #83
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Well in my version, you could still have great troops in.. 4 turns :) So it's not that slow - that was what i wanted. AND it is a lot simpler than other variants. Otherwise - as i said - one building will rule them all, one building will gather them and give them to the player. :lol:

  24. #84
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    one building will rule them all, one building will gather them and give them to the player. :lol:
    And in the darkness bind them,haha...


    4 turns
    Till you get the roman units ?

  25. #85
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    So... i guess we are on pause until ahowl says witch system he prefers?

    No, 4 turns till you get the AOR units. Legion recruitment was not such a fast process.

  26. #86
    Member Member ahowl11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I like Asgaroth's idea best

  27. #87
    Member Member TwoKnives's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    Good then. I found Asgaroth's idea very good

  28. #88
    Member Member hameleona's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    So in the end we are doing it the RTR way? I have to think about it and do it... tomorrow.

  29. #89
    Member Member Lord President of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I actually think RTR's way is too long. I personally think it should be 2-5 turns to get legionary units. Slower than vanilla, faster than RTR. Of course, this is not accurate, but if you want in depth accuracy and realism, why not go for RTR and EB?

  30. #90
    Member Member Asgaroth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction #1 The Roman Republic

    I personally think it should be 2-5 turns to get legionary units. Slower than vanilla, faster than RTR.
    That is how I planed also.....RTR but much more easyer and better for gameplay...

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