Mass Effect 3

[seireikhaan]

As much as I loved the initial SP balance, it gets really skewered once you unlock some of the better weapons. I was playing on Insanity like it was absolutely nothing before news of the retcon DLC became known. Its really surprising, since Insanity in ME1 and ME2 were pretty frustrating, here its almost trivial. All you have to do is buy one or two weapon upgrades and suddenly the power weapons cannot be stopped.

The M-37 Falcon is the most heinous example of an OP gun: rapid fire grenades turn Brutes into mulch. This is likely the reason its fire rate got nerfed pretty significantly in MP.

The Grail Spike Thrower (one of my favorite weapons) is unfortunately also pretty overpowered. I can headshot anything, instantly, from any range with this beast. Its hilariously good fun, but also too easy. I think I might completely wipe my save and just start again from whatever level i imported in from ME2. Wiping out entire hallways in an instant on Insanity just doesn't feel right.

Hmm. Guess I could try it. Beating ME2 on insanity was an excercise in tedium, never even tried on ME1 because of watching a roommate spend seemingly 10 hours grinding through immunity spam. Never really tried most of the weapons in SP- once I got my hands on the particle rifle from the Ashes dlc, I was so much in love with its "ME1-ness" that I just stuck with it for my adept. Want them to make it a possible prize for a weekend competition so bad. Then imported my level 30 vanguard to SP and was amazed by how badly I ripped stuff up. Didn't fire a bullet until Pahlaven's moon. Overpowered? Yes. Fun? Absolutely.

I finished that up about three weeks ago. Charming VN and really enjoyed the characters.

Aside from the main character, I'd agree.

edit: retcon DLC?

[Monk]

edit: retcon DLC?

Whatever it is Bioware is obviously planning for future content. It was linked before but there's a paragraph in there that promises the team is hard at work on story based DLC to "provide closure," whatever that's supposed to mean. I've stopped my NG+ play through to wait and see what they're up to.

Aside from the main character, I'd agree.

No, I obviously wasn't including Hisao among that statement.

[Chaotix]

Geez, I've got a long way to catch up to you two.

Got up to the final mission in SP. My war forces bar has been full for half the game now and I'm sitting at "even" chances (which I think is as high as it gets), but I still want to get my galactic readiness up to 100%. So I'll be playing a lot of MP in the next few days...

[rajpoot]

What this movement now needs is some celebrity support. Does Kim Kardashian play video games?

Forbes article on Ray's most recent statement. Makes for an interesting read as it questions the bit about 'constructive/destructive criticism'.

[Kekvit Irae]

New MP operation available: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/23/operation-fortress/

tl;dr: Because of the amount of brutes were killed last time, they will spawn less this time. Also, +25% exp bonus.

[rajpoot]

This is probably the first of the many future 'in-game' references to come, regarding the ending controversy.

[Chaotix]

Finally finished the game.

My thoughts on the ending:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I went into the endgame with knowledge of what was being said about the endings, but not actual details on what they were. So I tried to keep an open mind about it and see if I could catch something BioWare put in to make sense of it all.

My honest opinion? The ending comes out of left field. The sequence is completely unlike any other part of the game. You go from a fight against 5 Brutes, a Harvester, and a wave of Banshees and Marauders into- oh well, the laser beam hits you anyway, you have no idea what happened to your squad, and you're up on the Citadel alone with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

(Also, was disappointed on the final speech check- seems like you needed absolutely 100% Paragon or Renegade to get it, because I had about 90% Paragon and it was no dice. But then, I was able to make every single Renegade check in the game besides that one, despite having 10% or less Renegade. Kind of odd.)

That would be all fine if the endings were something worth it, something profound. But they're really not. Shepard dies no matter what, and the ending sequences are virtually the same, save for the color of the laser beam the Crucible shoots and maybe some robot-leaves for the merge ending. And the game doesn't save afterwards, so it's not like it makes a difference which one you pick. And it seems like the whole war effort, the whole "war readiness" questline is also for nothing, because in the end the entire game is reduced to "you pick one of three endings".

It feels almost uncannily like Deus Ex: Human Revolution - which was a good game on the whole, but kind of made weaker by the fact that you just press one of four buttons for the endgame (it goes: truth, exaggerate, lies, and "I'm just gonna blow the whole damn thing up").

Also- what's up with making the Illusive Man's Renegade ending blue and Anderson's Paragon ending red? That confused the hell out of me, especially in an already-confusing scene. Even if it was a stylistic shades-of-gray thing.

So I can see where a lot of the criticism comes in. You put in all that effort crafting a unique story for your Shepard, and then you get to just choose one of three endings and be the same as everyone else. The after-credits scene even states: well, Shepard is just a legend, anyway. We lost a lot of the details that don't really matter- such as, well, every choice you ever make. The only part that's important is that he/she stopped the Reapers.

So... I'm not gonna go demanding that BioWare change the ending. But you might say that I would welcome something a little more personalized than what they provided. Going into it, I was expecting the ending to be more of a "level of success" choice than a "pick your poison and btw all the mass relays are destroyed". Maybe a choice between destroy the reapers and control/make friends with the reapers, and depending on how many forces you put together determines how much gets destroyed in the process. Because I had well over 7000 war score and almost everyone still got killed.

Of course, if BioWare does put out a DLC ending, they will almost certainly charge me for it...

Eh. I've said my peace. I enjoyed the rest of the game immensely, and I'm still enjoying multiplayer. The only reason I'm hesitant about playing with my Renegade file is I get stuck with those endings to pick from. I might go up to Kai Leng, do all the final conversations with people on Earth, and then stop right there before doing the Brute-dance-gauntlet.

[Beskar]

@Chaotix

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because that isn't the real ending. This will get you understanding why (though there are a couple of things I disagree with in the video) - Greyblades' Earlier Link

So you quote: "see if I could catch something BioWare put in to make sense of it all." you missed it!

[Monk]

@Chaotix

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because that isn't the real ending. This will get you understanding why (though there are a couple of things I disagree with in the video) - Greyblades' Earlier Link

So you quote: "see if I could catch something BioWare put in to make sense of it all." you missed it!

Joe tends toward sensationalism in a lot of his work, here though he makes a bit of sense. I'm still not sold to be honest. I'm rocking back and forth between "it's a rush job" and "it was intentional" and cannot decide fully one way or another. I'm interested in where they are going, of course, but it doesn't seem their style to do it on purpose. It would be much easier to accept if it didn't come out of left field, as Bioware is not the kind of company that does the mind- ending competently, or at all.

[Beskar]

I'm still not sold to be honest.

I have to be honest, I came to the same conclusions as the theory before I heard the theory, and I picked the Red ending because I didn't believe a single word of the nonsense. Plus otherthings which I have mentioned more previous.

[Chaotix]

@Chaotix

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because that isn't the real ending. This will get you understanding why (though there are a couple of things I disagree with in the video) - Greyblades' Earlier Link

So you quote: "see if I could catch something BioWare put in to make sense of it all." you missed it!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Perhaps so.

I know I caught that something wasn't right with the ending sequence- as in, it made no sense, what with the ghost child and the three choices out in open space on top of the Citadel.

It definitely crossed my mind that Shepard could have been indoctrinated, but I didn't seriously consider it.

All the evidence in the video is enough to confirm it for me, though. Especially the bit about the "seeing ghosts" and the rachni queen talking about "oily shadows", which fits perfectly with his dream sequences.

Thanks for that link, Tiaexz.

In my mind, this would make it a brilliant penultimate scene to the game- IF they weren't going to charge me another $10 for the REAL ending. Right now, the game's incomplete, and that's not what was advertised on the box, especially not the "collector's edition" box.

So I'm annoyed that BioWare is once again playing me for the sucker, but the "ending" as it is satisfies me with the promise of a real one soon.

[Monk]

I have to be honest, I came to the same conclusions as the theory before I heard the theory, and I picked the Red ending because I didn't believe a single word of the nonsense. Plus otherthings which I have mentioned more previous.

Yes I went Red as well for much the same reasons you did...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I decided to replay the Arrival DLC on a hunch.. and wouldn't you kinow it? Some stuff really jives with what the star-child tries to convince you of. Dr. Kensoth is completely indoctrinated and tries to stop you from nuking the Alpha relay, taken from one of her audio logs is her reasoning:

"I'm not convinced the Reapers mean doom for the galaxy. Legends say the Reapers came through before, but life still exists."

Sound familiar? There's also a lot of audio logs from the indoctrinated crew which directly reference weird dreams they've been having.

Add to those two things everything else brought up in spoilers and.. I don't know. Maybe it's wishful thinking but you guys might be onto something.

[gaelic cowboy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The problem with the Sherphard indoctrinated theory is that Red nor Blue are none of them safe choices, they were given to you by Reapers when indoctrinated if you follow the logic.

They can show you visions of whatever they want you to think so you believe you are controlling/destroying the Reapers, thats why the ending needs ambiguity otherwise we always pick the same colour.

If you ask me none of the endings are real after all the citadel is a mass relay and it didnt blow up, I say let Bioware due a Bobby Ewing and have Shepard come out of the shower

Yes it annoys me that might mean DLC for a new ending but thats the way the world is

[SwordsMaster]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, I, for one have decided to have an opinion on the endings.

As some of you, I had my first playthrough and was disappointed, as some, I had the second one after revisiting Arrival, Overlord, and ME2 suicide mission, and have come to some different conclusions:

The 'child' is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Clearly the lure of survival (Saren) and power (Elusive Man) alone wouldn't do it for him, and both those agents had spent two games trying. Hence the child appealing to the soft side, a 'new' era, of bio-synthetic life. Hence Shepard's dreams, also part of the indoctrination process, and the only way to break with them is do what you came to do, destroy the Reapers. Anything else is giving in.

Or, you know, the gasp of breath at the end could be the Shepard at the bottom of the Normandy crash site in ME2. And it all could have been a dream.

[Monk]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you ask me none of the endings are real after all the citadel is a mass relay and it didnt blow up, I say let Bioware due a Bobby Ewing and have Shepard come out of the shower

I have to admit that i'd laugh really hard if they did that, and promptly never play the game again

[gaelic cowboy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or, you know, the gasp of breath at the end could be the Shepard at the bottom of the Normandy crash site in ME2. And it all could have been a dream.

I have to admit that i'd laugh really hard if they did that, and promptly never play the game again

I'm telling you season eight Dallas for sure.

[Monk]

I'm telling you season eight Dallas for sure.

We'll see come April I guess. That's when Bioware is supposedly going to come out with more info on this stuff. I'm thinking they are saving whatever it is for a PAX announcement.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, I, for one have decided to have an opinion on the endings.

As some of you, I had my first playthrough and was disappointed, as some, I had the second one after revisiting Arrival, Overlord, and ME2 suicide mission, and have come to some different conclusions:

The 'child' is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Clearly the lure of survival (Saren) and power (Elusive Man) alone wouldn't do it for him, and both those agents had spent two games trying. Hence the child appealing to the soft side, a 'new' era, of bio-synthetic life. Hence Shepard's dreams, also part of the indoctrination process, and the only way to break with them is do what you came to do, destroy the Reapers. Anything else is giving in.

Or, you know, the gasp of breath at the end could be the Shepard at the bottom of the Normandy crash site in ME2. And it all could have been a dream.

I don't get the dream vibe, especially after playing some of the Mass Effect 2 content retroactively along-side a number of points raised in this thread.

It could still all be wishful thinking in a chaos of bad writing of course, so i'm prepared to accept either reality.

[Greyblades]

Ugh, this mass effect debacle has been making me think about quite afew things I would rather not.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've been watching several reactions to this mess from movie bob, spoony, penny arcade and others. I've found myself disliking them afterwards when they disagree with my viewpoint, (admittedly, spoony's "get over it, there's worse endings out there and we didnt complain about it that much" wasn't exactly pleasant). Even though I had found myself really enjoying thier work before now I find it hard to stomach it. Its disturbing, scary and even disgusting how my opinion of a person can be so changed just because I dont agree with thier viewpoints, I really shouldnt be so put off by one stupid point that dont matter in the great scheme of things yet I still feel it. Human nature sucks.

Also I've noticed that alot of the retake mass effect detractors have been saying that this is a huge overreaction. Maybe it is, but I find it hard to believe that they expected better from the internet of all places.

[rajpoot]

Ugh, this mass effect debacle has been making me think about quite afew things I would rather not.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've been watching several reactions to this mess from movie bob, spoony, penny arcade and others. I've found myself disliking them afterwards when they disagree with my viewpoint, (admittedly, spoony's "get over it, there's worse endings out there and we didnt complain about it that much" wasn't exactly pleasant). Even though I had found myself really enjoying thier work before now I find it hard to stomach it. Its disturbing, scary and even disgusting how my opinion of a person can be so changed just because I dont agree with thier viewpoints, I really shouldnt be so put off by one stupid point that dont matter in the great scheme of things yet I still feel it. Human nature sucks.

Also I've noticed that alot of the retake mass effect detractors have been saying that this is a huge overreaction. Maybe it is, but I find it hard to believe that they expected better from the internet of all places.

It is really a matter of how much a person got involved in the game. I've noticed that most of the people who're neutral/OK with the ending are also people who aren't much bothered about what happens to the companions and stuff like that.
Similar is the case with the 'professional' reviewers who're being criticised badly a la Colin Moriarty of IGN for giving ME3 good scores and not mentioning the ending at all (and in Colin's case actually making fun of the people who want a change...man would I like to get my hands on that guy) , I think they did not really play the game as we common gamers do. They played it like a thousand other games which they had to review, with no attachment.

What I am really concerned at the moment is that things are finally running out of steam. Most people finally seem to be getting tired of yelling, and are accepting the ending as such. Maybe it's going to hurt BW in the future, but for the moment it seems they'll come up ahead.

[Beskar]

What I am really concerned at the moment is that things are finally running out of steam. Most people finally seem to be getting tired of yelling, and are accepting the ending as such. Maybe it's going to hurt BW in the future, but for the moment it seems they'll come up ahead.

Mass Effect 2 was pretty much "Blue Ending, you destroyed collector base", "Red Ending, you gave it to the Illusive man", except with "if you failed, your team dies".

[Chaotix]

Mass Effect 2 was pretty much "Blue Ending, you destroyed collector base", "Red Ending, you gave it to the Illusive man", except with "if you failed, your team dies".

True, but that was only one aspect of the ending. Like you said yourself, if you fail, your team dies. No matter what happens, you kill the Collectors, but you get a varying feeling of success depending on how well you did on the suicide mission. Getting every single person through that mission alive feels very different from losing some or most of your team along the way, and I feel that had more of an impact than your decision to save or destroy the base itself.

Likewise with ME1, your perception of the ending is shaped by what happens before it. Did Wrex make it through Virmire? Is Ashley or Kaidan standing next to you? Did you sleep with him/her or was it Liara? That's just as important as whether or not you saved the Council.

Above all, there's the impact of your outcome to each of these games on the sequel - every player's playthrough of ME2 and ME3 will be subtly or vastly different.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Right up until the end. In my opinion, this is where ME3's ending has trouble, whether it's a dream/indoctrination sequence or the real deal. There's no promise of "your choices will affect the sequel" because there is NO sequel and there won't be one. This means that a flat Blue/Red/in between ending doesn't work any more. If you make everyone's ending a choice between three invariant (mostly, besides the life/death feature of the red one) endings, it diminishes the significance of all that originality that your game had before it.

Honestly, if they leave the endings as they are, I don't really care which of them my Shepard picks, because no matter what Liara is on an uncharted planet thousands of lightyears away with no mass relays to connect them. Being alive but buried in a pile of rubble on a post-apocalyptic planet with no way out isn't so different from being flat-out dead, and if any three of the choices make the future happy, I don't really give a crap which one it is because Shepard's not able to take part in it anyway.

As they are, all the endings are sad for Shepard and happy for the universe, and therefore they might as well all be the same choice.

[Greyblades]

As they are, all the endings are sad for Shepard and happy for the universe, and therefore they might as well all be the same choice.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Happy for the universe? Methinks not considering space travel is gone and earth is now home to a battle fleet of billions of troops they cant hope to feed and allmost every faction's leaders are at earth with no way home so chaos is likely to ensue on thier planets, assuming they havent been destroyed by the relay explosions. taking it at face value, the only ending I can see as good is the control one and that's only because I can easily imagine my shepard will use the reapers to build more mass relays.

[Monk]

Ugh, this mass effect debacle has been making me think about quite afew things I would rather not.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've been watching several reactions to this mess from movie bob, spoony, penny arcade and others. I've found myself disliking them afterwards when they disagree with my viewpoint, (admittedly, spoony's "get over it, there's worse endings out there and we didnt complain about it that much" wasn't exactly pleasant). Even though I had found myself really enjoying thier work before now I find it hard to stomach it. Its disturbing, scary and even disgusting how my opinion of a person can be so changed just because I dont agree with thier viewpoints, I really shouldnt be so put off by one stupid point that dont matter in the great scheme of things yet I still feel it. Human nature sucks.

Also I've noticed that alot of the retake mass effect detractors have been saying that this is a huge overreaction. Maybe it is, but I find it hard to believe that they expected better from the internet of all places.

I guess I could return the same sentiment to you, Greyblades. You expected better from talking heads behind a monitor? Most of those folks are paid for their opinion, or if not paid for it, feel quite high and mighty when it comes to what they have to say. Spoony is a prime example, dude's been on the internet for years and hasn't changed since day one. He's right, you're wrong, and he's better than you because of that (or at least in his opinion). Its part of his charm/repulsion, depending on how you feel about him.

Personally I think both sides are entirely tiresome in how they view one another. I said this before, and thank god it's starting to calm down now, but for a while there it was impossible to engage on discussion for this game without one side throwing around gross exaggerations and hyperbole. It got old. Fast.

What I am really concerned at the moment is that things are finally running out of steam. Most people finally seem to be getting tired of yelling, and are accepting the ending as such. Maybe it's going to hurt BW in the future, but for the moment it seems they'll come up ahead.

I'm actually glad that people are wearing themselves out from shouting. 90% of what was said in the initial firestorm was absolutely drivel anyway for the reasons i said above. How can you get any discussion out of someone when they either: 1); claim you have an entitled attitude or 2); are stupid for disagreeing with them. Maybe now they can climb down off the soap box and join the rest of us here on the ground.

I doubt it though! If you want my advice: don't take it personally.

edit: present company accepted, of course. Don't make me post more KS image macros.

[Greyblades]

I was more commenting on my own reaction than thiers; because of one video my entire view on moviebob has become soured and I cant even push myself through his latest video, even though his entire repetior used to appeal to me, whereas spoony's a jerkass anyway so the effect is limited. Still I really dont like how my opinion on someone is swayed so negatively just by taking the opposing "side" on this pretty benign issue. I dont know I just feel I should only get these feelings of anymosity over an issue if the person turns out to support the KKK, not this.

[gaelic cowboy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Happy for the universe? Methinks not considering space travel is gone and earth is now home to a battle fleet of billions of troops they cant hope to feed and allmost every faction's leaders are at earth with no way home so chaos is likely to ensue on thier planets, assuming they havent been destroyed by the relay explosions. taking it at face value, the only ending I can see as good is the control one and that's only because I can easily imagine my shepard will use the reapers to build more mass relays.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well seeing as the citadel is a relay they can easy make up some plot device that says "Hey look we found this targetting device so we can all go home" and bobs your uncle the plothole is fixed. Then if you need to you can add in some bit about finding plans for mass relays in the rubble blah blah or discover the tech thats beyond relay travel that the reapers didnt want you to use in the first place. Nothing is ever final or set in stone in sci fi thats why it's set in the future.

[rajpoot]

Excellent blog on Wall Street Journal about the ending controversy.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/...arted-a-furor/

[CBR]

Excellent blog on Wall Street Journal about the ending controversy.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/...arted-a-furor/

Yes, excellent in showing how to miss the whole point.

[Monk]

There is a problem with gamer entitlement, and while there are certainly voices in the ME3 backlash who sound very immature, most have by now settled on reasonable stances. I don't think entitlement has a big part to due with this any more than I did at the start of the backlash. If you listen to the complaints of the reasonable fans (not the crazies), its not hard to understand the other side of this. Drawing parallels between the Mass Effect reaction and the Sopa/Pipa protests is stupid and completely misses the mark. They are not products of the same movement nor of the "growing consciousness" in people who play games.

This sort of thing happens every time a fan base (in their majority, not counting the minority) finds disappointment in a sequel. It isn't unique to Mass Effect and I wish people would stop acting like it is. The article seems to think people are upset because Shepard met with a rough end, but that's not really the crux of the issue and it never was. For some it might be, but most people seem to be upset that the game ends on a really weird moment that is ambiguous as all hell. Even if the indoctrination theory turns out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors, that still leaves us with a very open ending that could use an expansion to answer the numerous questions raised. Even someone like me who initially welcomed the ending has to concede the point that the ending is wide open. People went into this thing expecting it to be the end, they didn't expect to come out of the other side still wondering what in the world is going on.

OH GOOD GOD MONK'S GONNA USE A ARTISTIC COMPARISON! SHIELD YOUR EYES!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It would be like if at the end of Return of the Jedi, Lando was piloting the Falcon into the depths of the death star and fired off the kill shot. The Death Star is exploding, Luke and Vader are stumbling on board trying to get out while Lando is gunning it through the guts of the station. All of a sudden the camera cuts to the outside and the death star blows up. We see Han, Leia and Chewy on Endor looking up at the explosion and then the credits roll...

Lando and the Falcon are nowhere to be seen. We don't know if Luke got out alive, and now the remaining rebels are stranded in Ewok City. Did the rest of the Rebel fleet get away from the explosion? (remember, they were at point blank range!) we don't know! That, among other things, is one of the big reasons people got so upset.

Personally, i feel some people in the outcry went way too far in their disagreements, and all in all, I didn't have much of a problem with the ending at first. Though now I'm curious as to just what Bioware really meant, now that word is out they're working on new content.

A friend joked that the game’s name should really be Choice Effect 3: Galaxy of Choices.

Oh god. Why. Why why why why why.

[gaelic cowboy]

Some journo who prob hasnt a clue about games no doubt.

I read a review in a local paper once for that Underworld Evolution movie which was actually a review of the first movie.

[rajpoot]

I don't think he meant to focus all that much on why the ending was bad but rather on why/how did it end up birthing this movement, and how Bioware brought this about themselves.

Drawing parallels between the Mass Effect reaction and the Sopa/Pipa protests is stupid and completely misses the mark. They are not products of the same movement nor of the "growing consciousness" in people who play games.

This sort of thing happens every time a fan base (in their majority, not counting the minority) finds disappointment in a sequel. It isn't unique to Mass Effect and I wish people would stop acting like it is.

Also I beg to differ. This furor is one of a kind. I do not recall so many people coming together to protest so vehemently against any one single game......loud enough to actually make the developers (and not just any developer, Bioware....Bioware of EA) back off....even if it was just one step back.
As far as drawing parallels with the SOPA/PIPA protests is concerned I think you're missing the point. While that was an infinitely more serious issue, dealt by serious people, there too the collective bullying of the Internet played a part.

And while the early protests were immature and too extreme with people simply shouting and not listening, IMO that bit of a protest is just as important as the eventual civilised discussion that leads to some sort of solution. Do you think the devs would've listened or responded as well as they are doing now, if all that happened was a bunch of people posting their views on the game?
The first thing required was to make sure they listened to what was being said. And IMO that immature shouting in the beginning served it's purpose well.