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Thread: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

  1. #31
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    I admire your idea, but if you try this on brutal difficulty, you will be erased in few turns.
    I play this since good old STW, I even played and finished the first buggy version. But I have never finished a campaign in S2tw

  2. #32
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    New rule: If I see a foreign veteran and assassination is feasible, it must be attempted. Feasible is defined as: above a 35% success rating, a suitable agent of my own within range to strike on that turn or the next, enough money that it won't get in the way of very important plans. Tom Cruise must die!

    I started writing, and decided to change direction a little. Back to the beginning. I think the new idea works better. You'll see ...

    I object! You should try to assasinate any Foreign Veteran, unless its name is Nathan Algren.
    If you find Nathan Algren, send your Daimyo's Geisha sister to convert him

  3. #33
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Phew! Yesterday's patch has fixed the game. I've got an hour or so today, I'll see how far I can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yesugey View Post
    I admire your idea, but if you try this on brutal difficulty, you will be erased in few turns.
    I play this since good old STW, I even played and finished the first buggy version. But I have never finished a campaign in S2tw
    If I played on legendary I'd probably die before the mid-game. The save limitations on that mode always make me nervous about losing the save file to an accident, and I end up playing poorly because I'm not concentrating. I should be able to give a good showing on hard though; I've already won several campaigns on that level, one of which was in FotS. The handicaps will make this game quite a bit harder than a normal FotS game though. If I die, I hope it's entertaining for people to watch.

    If you want to see a real Shogun genius in action, take a look at Maltz's legendary difficulty Mori game report. He's scarily good at the game, and he gives a lot of advice in-between the story sections. It's very educational reading. I've learned a lot from him myself.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  4. #34
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    I played a few turns, made some progress. We've already reached our first hiccough: the Jozai.


    That's the current situation. It's turn ... 9? 10? Something like that.

    I have allied with Nagaoka and Sendai in order to keep them off my back. The Jozai have sprawled across three provinces, sprinting out the gate very aggressively across territories we wanted. They are currently rated very friendly and are shogunate in loyalty. That prompts two questions: how badly do we want those provinces, and do we trust them not to flip sides? I could ally with them and head in a different direction, or proceed with the original plan and risk getting ganged up on.

    The pink people in Kozuke are Imperialist pig-dog-chicken-scum! War is only a matter of time. That province is not so appealing; it's poor and it will stretch our puny army far too thin. Fighting them gains us very little. However they are well positioned to dogpile us in the flank if we pursue the Jozai. I could attempt to cause a revolt in the province, get it to fall into rebel hands. The odds of success are very low however, and money is tight. The Yonezawa in Uzen are a little perilous too. Whilst still Shogunate in loyalty, they refuse to trade with me and are becoming increasingly unfriendly. War is an increasing possibility. I currently have no army to cover that border! Uzen is quite a nice province, excellent farmlands and a special which grants bonuses to traditional units.

    I'm currently making a shade over 1,200 koku per turn. A level 3 farm is 3 turns from completion in our capital, and a cottage industry is 2 turns from completion in our new province. Both will boost our income significantly. I have also researched the first economic tech, and and almost done with the one which grants a 10% boost to farming income.

    Army replenishment rates are punitive. Our precious starting samurai units can only replace 5 men per turn. Including them in the heaviest areas of combat is critical to our success, so this slowness makes our situation quite fragile. We need access to a dojo ASAP. My original thought was to place the dojo in Hitachi as that will make it easy to load new units onto ships ... but it might be nice to have a dojo prior to taking on the Jozai. Our starting province still has a semi-useless police station; I'm tempted to demolish it and replace it with either a dojo or an income building.

    So, generals, how should we react to the situation which has evolved?
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  5. #35
    The Anger Shaman of the .Org Content Manager Voigtkampf's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    I would turtle in Shimotsuke, build a decent stronghold and station some troops there. Create two stacks of army and go north, taking Miyagi, Uzen, Iwate and Ugo. Eventually Aomori, to secure borders from Matsumae, not sure how much of a stink they will put up. If Jozai attack, you can lure them to your stronghold and kill them off, but in manual battles. Once you got the four above mentioned provinces (all fertile provinces, mind you!) you should have a substantial financial backing to continue your conquest towards south. However, this all depends on the strength of armies in the said provinces.

    Slightly off topic, but how do you determine how many units per turn you can train in one province? I started of with Jozai in my last campaign, and I could train three units simultaneously. Several turns later, I could train only two at the same time. What factors are in that equation, except the size of the city (or was it the fort)?




    Today is your victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

    Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings, The Water Book

  6. #36
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Quote Originally Posted by Voigtkampf View Post
    Slightly off topic, but how do you determine how many units per turn you can train in one province? I started of with Jozai in my last campaign, and I could train three units simultaneously. Several turns later, I could train only two at the same time. What factors are in that equation, except the size of the city (or was it the fort)?
    It's based on the troop recruitment buildings. The castle provides the 1 slot every province has. A cadet school, dojo, and cannon range will all add 1 more slot as soon as they are constructed. Upgrading buildings does not increase the slots available. The capital always has one extra slot. I think there's one event which provides a temporary extra slot.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.

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  7. #37
    Member Member phred's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    I think you should scout Jozai with your agent and take them out if you have the better army. You don't want them expanding to the West and taking YOUR rightful provinces (esp. Musashi). :)

    Is Uzen the purple province? As a troop production province, it would only be useful if you were using your navy to take provinces on the the North coast. Walking troops from Uzen will take a long time and this is a short campaign. Those northern provinces are so far away from everything without a railroad. As a money making province it's a good idea, as long as your neighbors stay friendly.

    I still like the idea of attacking South and West and creating a troop production province near Musashi.
    I really like the idea of having the clump of provinces around Musashi and Hitachi as your core because they are fairly small and it will take fewer turns to move troops around.

    edit - ultimately, I think you should first expand into the area where you want your core production facilities.
    Last edited by phred; 05-03-2012 at 23:09.

  8. #38
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    If you want to see a real Shogun genius in action, take a look at Maltz's legendary difficulty Mori game report. He's scarily good at the game, and he gives a lot of advice in-between the story sections. It's very educational reading. I've learned a lot from him myself.
    Thanks for the link, I will definitely check that. I think I know my problem, Im blitzing like I did in the old TW series. We'll see.

  9. #39
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Two very different strategies! I'll give it another day to see if a third general arrives to break the deadlock.

    This is half the fun - I know what I'd do, but that's not necessarily what others would do. Playing with occasional reader input means I cannot stick to my comfortable old strategies.

    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Is Uzen the purple province?
    Yes, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yesugey View Post
    Thanks for the link, I will definitely check that. I think I know my problem, Im blitzing like I did in the old TW series. We'll see.
    Blitizing is still possible, but it's harder now. You need to hit the right notes with your research, unit production, and expansion rates. Fail to do so, and your empire will collpase or the AI will roll over you because you lack the resources to resist. The Oda clan are the kings of the blitz - their superior ashigaru let them shred the opposition until the AI begins fielding pure samurai armies. The last patch introduced 40v40 battles, and that made the Oda ashigaru rush even more powerful. Jarmam has written a good breakdown of that, if you're interested. Rushing with other clans is harder.

    I'm a slow, steady player by nature. I couldn't rush if my life depended upon it!



    I wanted to include a few other pictures in the report post. Technical problems with the org's image hosting service made it impossible for me to upload them. Now that the problem is solved, here's the picture which sets the flavour for the campaign:


    Beauty and destruction ...
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  10. #40
    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    here's the picture which sets the flavour for the campaign:


    Beauty and destruction ...
    Is this good or bad for the Aizu?
    Either way the following report will be eventful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drone
    Someone has to watch over the wheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    We've made our walls sufficiently thick that we don't even hear the wet thuds of them bashing their brains against the outer wall and falling as lifeless corpses into our bottomless moat.

  11. #41
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Apologies. I started a new job on the 8th and the amount of things I've needed to sort out has been rather insane. If I don't get chance to post an update before the weekend, I'll definitely post one during.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  12. #42
    New Member Member telas's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Hi, just thought I'd share some thoughts I had while playing my own No-Gun campaign (just on hard difficulty, not Legendary I'm not as courageous as you haha):

    • I think it is possible to beat the campaign without ever going up a modernization level (At least, that's what I'm trying). The traditional dojo provides recruitment slots, and the traditionalists have an economic building, the Inn. Add to that farm upgrades, plus income from various copper mines, iron mines, etc and you have the makings of a respectable economy.
    • In the early game I mostly built Yari Kachi, with a few Matchlock Kachi to back them up. The Yari Kachi have good enough morale to survive a few gunfire volleys and if they get into melee with early-game infantry they usually prevail. Spear Levys are pretty terrible in my opinion, their morale value means they'll probably run before they reach the enemy and their melee attack is only a little bit better than Levy Infantry.
    • Bows have both a longer range than guns and can arc over obstacles unlike guns, which gives you a good advantage in sieges. On the attack you can simply snipe the enemy without fear of retaliation, and on the defence you can hit the enemy long before they can hit back.
    • Kisho ninjas are great for evening out a fight by taking out artillery and Gatling guns.
    • In the mid game at least, in an open battle, you can't go wrong by massing Katana Kachis and just charging at the enemy! Like Yari Kachi, they have good enough morale to keep going forward into gunfire and even if only half makes it to the enemy they will devastate them.


    Well, enough rambling, hope you find this useful. Good luck!

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  13. #43
    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Welcome @telas.

    It seems your entire tactics revolve around 'the glorius charge'. So I assume defensive battles are a problem.
    Also can a traditional army of the same size/value prevail against a modern one?
    Artillery are incredibly important in FotS. How do you minimize the damage from enemy artillery?
    Quote Originally Posted by Drone
    Someone has to watch over the wheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    We've made our walls sufficiently thick that we don't even hear the wet thuds of them bashing their brains against the outer wall and falling as lifeless corpses into our bottomless moat.

  14. #44
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    A Tom Cruise campaign? :D

  15. #45
    Away Senior Member frogbeastegg's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Welcome, telas, and thanks for sharing your experience.

    I'm sorry about the delay in progressing this game. The commute for my new job is proving to be insane - I'm reliant on public transport and the bus service is so useless that I'm now looking for a safe route to walk the 4 miles home! I've only really got time to play games at the weekend, and the last couple of weekends have been busy.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  16. #46
    Member Member edbenedict77's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Gun Shogun: A Self-Proclaimed Suicidal Campaign in Futility

    Quote Originally Posted by Peasant Phill View Post
    Welcome @telas.

    It seems your entire tactics revolve around 'the glorius charge'. So I assume defensive battles are a problem.
    Also can a traditional army of the same size/value prevail against a modern one?
    Artillery are incredibly important in FotS. How do you minimize the damage from enemy artillery?
    The artillery can be taken out quickly, providing you have "kisho ninja" units. They can be deployed at the start of the battle, outside (white borders will appear) the usual battle prep area (yellow box). And use their stealth ability to run behind artillery units, and hack through them. In an attack, you will have to do this with precision, as the artillery will be close to the main army and your ninja's will be vulnerable, so a massed charge with your main melee army, while ninjas creeping behind the artys might reduce your casualties and save your ninjas getting overwhelmed by the main enemy army, while they try to eliminate the arty units.

    p.s: presently playing as the Republic of Satsuma, N/N (I'm not an elite player), but heavily depend on samurai and ninja units for Castle siege attacks. I kinda like the mixed army of 4-6 Katana/yari + 1-2 Kisho Ninja + 1-2 Bow kachi + 4-6 Rep. Infant + 2 Armstrong + 1-2 Gatling and rest Yari Ki :)

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