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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/27/po...ice/index.html

    So, what is the outrage all about? Prostitution is legal in Columbia, and since the rules for these agents are being changed because of this incident we can surmise that it wasn't against their rules at the time when this happened. I can see that some people will consider it an embarassment, but does that excuse firing nine people over it?

    One argument I heard is that using of this kind of services makes the agents vulnerable to blackmail, or liable to divulge sensitive information in their post-coital mellowness. But is that a sufficient reason to A) ban it, and B) fire the agents over it even when it wasn't banned?

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    I believe part of the problem was failure to pay for services. I mean, if you're going to engage a prostitute, you should at least pay for the privilege.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Apparently one of the working girls felt insulted when one of the agents tried to barter and suggested a ridiculously low price. No idea what happened next, or how it got out.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Is there actually a federal law against prostitution? I thought that in Nevada, at least, it was legal.

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Is there actually a federal law against prostitution?
    Darn good question. I'm not seeing it, but maybe someone with stronger Google-fu can find something.

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Its only legal in nevada in certain establishments. I'm rather sure that according to federal law it is illegal to pay for sex. But that aside, the Secret Service (as well as any other high-profile government agency, including the military) has its own rules and regulations regarding acceptable conduct.
    Plus, I believe there is a question of abuse of office, didn't one of the agents basically do the "I'm Secret Sevice, I shouldn't have to pay that" thing?
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    If paying for sex is illegal per federal law, shouldn't all prostitition be illegal across the entire US?

    In the CNN article I linked to:

    Called Enhanced Standards of Conduct, the new guidelines given to all Secret Service personnel make clear that standards of behavior required in the United States apply on missions abroad, the sources said.

    Effective immediately, the new standards require detailed briefings before each trip that will include safety precautions and any necessary designations of establishments and areas that are "off limits" for Secret Service personnel, the sources said.

    Also in the new standards, foreigners are banned from Secret Service hotel rooms at all times, except for hotel staff and host nation law enforcement and government officials on official business, according to the officials, and all Secret Service personnel are prohibited from going to a "non-reputable establishment."

    The new standards specify that U.S. laws apply to Secret Service personnel when traveling, rendering invalid the excuse that specific activity is legal in the foreign country, the officials said.
    Allthough vague on some points, the bolded part would suggest that those agents didn't violate any rule that applied to them.

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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Employment carries its own set of expectations that are dependent on the employer that go beyond the law. Those expectations may or may not even be detailed in writing; however, they are well understood. For example,itt is perfectly legal to post lots of nasty or revealing things on Facebook, but, in my current occupation, I would be fired for doing so. My guess is that these agents knew that they were not living up to the standards of the agency but thought they could get away with it since it had been done before.

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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Is there actually a federal law against prostitution? I thought that in Nevada, at least, it was legal.
    Counties with population less than 400000 can license brothels. Weird I know, but hey.
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    In my job, if I were to go an have a drink at the bar at a conference I would be in breach of the ABPI code of conduct and could be fired. If I don't like the rules, I'd best get a different job.

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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    If you're acting as an agent of the US Government on foreign soil, you are required not only to abide by their laws but by our laws as well. The upcoming policy change is aimed at trying to make that less vague and more specific, but it should have been understood by those agents that what they were doing was against the rules.

    I mean, they're Secret Service Agents. What if one of those girls had been a spy? An assassin? Something else? They were on the job, and no matter how you slice it they screwed up. In the Army they would have called this a breach of OpSec, and you would be hammered for it.
    absolutely...I would expect a secret service agent to be able to pull this off without getting caught.
    that's the reason to question their professionalism.
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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    I believe part of the problem was failure to pay for services. I mean, if you're going to engage a prostitute, you should at least pay for the privilege.
    This. Secret Service types have big egos and one decided he didn't want to pay.

    The thing that upsets me is that the other guys paid up and either didn't help him with the cash or he didn't want their help. That's unprofessional.


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    Default Re: What happens in Cartagena doesn't stay there

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/27/po...ice/index.html

    So, what is the outrage all about? Prostitution is legal in Columbia, and since the rules for these agents are being changed because of this incident we can surmise that it wasn't against their rules at the time when this happened. I can see that some people will consider it an embarassment, but does that excuse firing nine people over it?

    One argument I heard is that using of this kind of services makes the agents vulnerable to blackmail, or liable to divulge sensitive information in their post-coital mellowness. But is that a sufficient reason to A) ban it, and B) fire the agents over it even when it wasn't banned?
    We want the people responsible for the presidents life to be sober minded and dedicated...

    Though I do think some people were too eager to make jokes about the subject.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 05-04-2012 at 03:28.

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