Ankara and the Averni

[ForzaFiori]

So in my Averni game, I suddenly found myself in control of Ankara, complete with a 6 unit garrison, 2 of which are slaves, surrounded on almost all sides by a hostile AS (several full stacks.). I'm a decent commander, but not that good. does anyone have any tips for surviving, or should I just resign the city to being conquered?

Also, were the gauls in asia minor really still the subjects of ones all the way back in Gaul? It seems like there'd be alot of problems with communication and whatnot...

[Casual Tactician]

So in my Averni game, I suddenly found myself in control of Ankara, complete with a 6 unit garrison, 2 of which are slaves, surrounded on almost all sides by a hostile AS (several full stacks.). I'm a decent commander, but not that good. does anyone have any tips for surviving, or should I just resign the city to being conquered?

Is there an Averni governemt in place already?? If not, then build a Gov4 building and recruit a Client Ruler (no Allied General!) - if you're lucky he'll be a good commander and/or governour. At least you'll then be able to recruit some mercs (with the new Client Ruler, and if you have the cash). Though all in all, you'll probably be making a loss with the Ankyra/Galatia province, unless it has (multiple) precious mines.

Anyhow, trying to hold on to it will prove to be quite some fun, I reckon.

Also, were the gauls in asia minor really still the subjects of ones all the way back in Gaul? It seems like there'd be alot of problems with communication and whatnot...

No. It's due to the devs choice and RTW mechanics - see here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post10708831

[Servilius Novus]

Well, financially, IMO that single city doesn't worth keeping it due to all the financial drawbacks (just the 2 slaves are 700 mnai alone), so it has way more disadvantages than advantages

I don't think they were in any kind of connection with either Aedui or Arverni (there were no telephone or email back then )

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Anyone who keeps slaves mobilised as a military unit when they don't absolutely have to is a fool. They are almost completely useless in a fight, and cost more money than they save as a garrison unit. Disband them as soon as you get them, unless you have literally NOTHING else available.

[Servilius Novus]

@Scato Also, even though they are simply slaves who just became free, why the hell do we even have to pay their maintenance (they need more than a decent phalanx unit with years of training and all the equipment), they should be glad they have freedom (of course they need food but they are not kings)

[Casual Tactician]

(they need more than a decent phalanx unit with years of training and all the equipment), they should be glad they have freedom (of course they need food but they are not kings)

That's a valid point.

For ForzaFiori: -> go to EDU (= ;472) -> mod/deminish upkeep -> happy and cheap ex-slaves! ;) ... or simply disband them!

[ForzaFiori]

Alright, I'm thinking I'm just gonna ignore the city for the most part, disband the units and give it back to the AS. I didn't even want a city in asia minor anyway, I got enough problems uniting gaul.

[Casual Tactician]

Alright, I'm thinking I'm just gonna ignore the city for the most part, disband the units and give it back to the AS. I didn't even want a city in asia minor anyway, I got enough problems uniting gaul.

I just had a quick look at the Recruitment Viewer... and apparently, as Averni, you can't recruit the:

Galatikoi Kuarothoroi (Galatian Heavy Spearmen)
Galatikoi Lavotuxri (Galatian Heavy Cavalry)
Galatikoi Tindanotae (Galatian "Wild Men" Infantry) ...which are great units.
stats here: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...hp?mp=unitlist

Hmm, a little unpleasant I'd say?!?

Unless you don't want an (expensive) challenge, that province doesn't seem worth keeping - unless it has 2-3 precious mines that is (though iirc it hasn't).

[ForzaFiori]

I just had a quick look at the Recruitment Viewer... and apparently, as Averni, you can't recruit the:

Galatikoi Kuarothoroi (Galatian Heavy Spearmen)
Galatikoi Lavotuxri (Galatian Heavy Cavalry)
Galatikoi Tindanotae (Galatian "Wild Men" Infantry) ...which are great units.
stats here: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...hp?mp=unitlist

Hmm, a little unpleasant I'd say?!?

Unless you don't want an (expensive) challenge, that province doesn't seem worth keeping - unless it has 2-3 precious mines that is (though iirc it hasn't).

I couldn't see anything useful in the province. no mines, it's landlocked, can even use it for trade cause it was surrounded by AS who turned hostile when it rebelled to me. And I'm having an expensive enough challenge keeping rome out of Gaul while I finish off the Aedui and the rebel settlements... I don't see how barbarians ever make money (or how the Aedui can have 2.5 full stacks with one city. I own 7 and can barely afford 1!)

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

@Scato Also, even though they are simply slaves who just became free, why the hell do we even have to pay their maintenance (they need more than a decent phalanx unit with years of training and all the equipment), they should be glad they have freedom (of course they need food but they are not kings)

Slaves cost so much because they are fit, strong workers taken out of the local economy. They are fooling around with clubs and stones when they should be working on the farms, carrying merchandise to markets or digging in the mines. So less slaves working in those tasks means less crops, less goods in the local market and less gold from the mine.

The RTW engine can't reduce income from your farms, markets, ports or mines when slaves are mobilised for military service, so EB have added the economic cost of not having enough slaves to the slave unit upkeep.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I just had a quick look at the Recruitment Viewer... and apparently, as Averni, you can't recruit the:

Galatikoi Kuarothoroi (Galatian Heavy Spearmen)
Galatikoi Lavotuxri (Galatian Heavy Cavalry)
Galatikoi Tindanotae (Galatian "Wild Men" Infantry) ...which are great units.
stats here: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...hp?mp=unitlist

Hmm, a little unpleasant I'd say?!?

That is strange. Those units should be recruitable for a Gallic faction in Ankara IMO. Maybe an oversight by the EB team?

I think I'll mod my own game to let the Aedui and Arveni recruit them. Galatia can't last long with only Shortswordsmen....

[seleucid empire]

i think they have gallic elites like neitos and brihitein no galation units for the averni except the swords

[bobbin]

IIRC the slave unit was made to solve a particular crash resulting from settlement rebellions, they were given such a large upkeep to make the player disband them quickly as they are not really supposed to be used.

The lack of galatian units for the Gallic factions is due to model sharing limitations, they really should have access to the gallic equivalents though, I guess it was just never fixed.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The lack of galatian units for the Gallic factions is due to model sharing limitations, they really should have access to the gallic equivalents though, I guess it was just never fixed.

Model sharing limitations? Ah, so the Galatian units look the same as the local Gallic variants, Gaestae, Brihentin and so forth and that's why the Gallic factions don't have them? Hmm, not a good enough reason for me - particularly if I can't recruit the local gallic equivalents in Ankara. I don't care if the Arveni have two units that look the same as long as they can't both be recruited in the same town.

[Maeran]

They don't look the same as they have different skins. They do however have the same base model, so they can't exist in the same faction roster. One of the many ingenius ways in which the model limit was stretched.

There is no historical link between the Arverni and the Galatians. Each region has to have an 'owner' faction at the beginning of the game, which determines local culture. So celtic Galatia has a Gallic one, and there are only two of those to choose from. This owner faction is also usually the faction the region revolts to. Make it revolt again and it will go back to Eleutheroi.

[seleucid empire]

i think two models sharing the same skin can. The Gauls have the Gallic heavy cavalry and can also recruit the belgae heavy cavalry which looks the same

[bobbin]

Model sharing limitations? Ah, so the Galatian units look the same as the local Gallic variants, Gaestae, Brihentin and so forth and that's why the Gallic factions don't have them? Hmm, not a good enough reason for me - particularly if I can't recruit the local gallic equivalents in Ankara. I don't care if the Arveni have two units that look the same as long as they can't both be recruited in the same town.

In RTW there are 500 unit slots but only 255 model slots, model sharing allowed EB to have more than 255 units but meant that each faction could only use 1 skin per model plus sharing the mercenary skin with all other factions, so we could get a maximum of 1 unit per faction and 1 merc unit shared by all for each model entry. This is what I mean by model sharing limitations.