Ancient Astronaut Theory Plausible?

[Kadagar_AV]

Damn, and just as I was ready to start comparing people to Hitler.

HUH?

That made no sense what so ever.

[Kadagar_AV]

Uhm...... What? What are you talking about frags? You will have algorithms in any numerical system, wether decimal, roman, sticks and dots, etc etc. No need for a zero, though it is an important number.

He's not wrong from his perspective. The best super computer of today could quite possibly not do it based on the mathematical knowledge they had back then.

But then, it wasn't based on super computers but the human mind, which is way more powerful, and they have had more than one, or ten, or a hundred generations to work from.

When you two talk about algorithms, I am not sure you are talking about the same thing either...

[HoreTore]

He's not wrong from his perspective. The best super computer of today could quite possibly not do it based on the mathematical knowledge they had back then.

But then, it wasn't based on super computers but the human mind, which is way more powerful, and they have had more than one, or ten, or a hundred generations to work from.

When you two talk about algorithms, I am not sure you are talking about the same thing either...

And I'm not sure either of you two are completely sure what an algorithm is...

Definition: an algorithm is a finite list of steps which when taken will solve a problem.

And it is of course perfectly possible to solve problem x without knowledge of any algorithms which will solve x.

[Kralizec]

I remember reading something years ago about how the concept of "zero" was revolutionary. Too bad I didn't remember anything about the why. My best guess would be that it allows you to view positive and negative quantities as a continuum, which would otherwise not be possible. Anyway, 2 + 2 = 5.

[HoreTore]

I remember reading something years ago about how the concept of "zero" was revolutionary. Too bad I didn't remember anything about the why. My best guess would be that it allows you to view positive and negative quantities as a continuum, which would otherwise not be possible. Anyway, 2 + 2 = 5.

Counting days.

[Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla]

Counting days.

Sorry?

If I recall, the story is that Zero was invented by a blind Arab - but in any case it isn't a real number, it's a place holder, and that's the revolutionary part that allows you to do complex algebra, as previously you just left a space.

[The Stranger]

Uhm...... What? What are you talking about frags? You will have algorithms in any numerical system, wether decimal, roman, sticks and dots, etc etc. No need for a zero, though it is an important number.

dont try to understand frag, posting in the backroom does something to his brains...

[HoreTore]

Sorry?

If I recall, the story is that Zero was invented by a blind Arab - but in any case it isn't a real number, it's a place holder, and that's the revolutionary part that allows you to do complex algebra, as previously you just left a space.

No to everything.

The invention of the zero was revolutionary as it allowed for more precise calendars, that was its main benefit. I won't tell you why it made counting days more precise though, that would spoil the fun you'll have figuring it out

Zero as a placeholder is something completely different to zero as a concept. Zero as a placeholder has been around basically the whole time, so when someone talks about inventing zero, it must refer to zero as a concept.

And zero is both a real and a rational number - heck, it's even an even number!

As for "complex algebra", well... In the past, algebra was done with geometry(no idea why we stopped, it's far superior). And nothing quite says "NO VALUE" like a missing rectangle...

[a completely inoffensive name]

The ancient alien guy has a degree you guys.....in sports information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_A._Tsoukalos

[Tiaexz]

Isn't there an ancient religion, where they believe the gods came down and mated with early humanoids, thus creating hybrids and humans are the said hybrids of these aliens and primitive apes?

Then there are also the wacky hieroglyphics that look like helicopters and jets

[Fragony]

Uhm...... What? What are you talking about frags? You will have algorithms in any numerical system, wether decimal, roman, sticks and dots, etc etc. No need for a zero, though it is an important number.

ffs Horetore and you teach math, it can also be negative and it doesn't stop at 1

[Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla]

No to everything.

The invention of the zero was revolutionary as it allowed for more precise calendars, that was its main benefit. I won't tell you why it made counting days more precise though, that would spoil the fun you'll have figuring it out

Zero as a placeholder is something completely different to zero as a concept. Zero as a placeholder has been around basically the whole time, so when someone talks about inventing zero, it must refer to zero as a concept.

And zero is both a real and a rational number - heck, it's even an even number!

As for "complex algebra", well... In the past, algebra was done with geometry(no idea why we stopped, it's far superior). And nothing quite says "NO VALUE" like a missing rectangle...

No.... don't get it.

Sorry.

This is why I became a mixed-theologian and literary scholar. Now please send my mother a letter explaining that I am too stupid to do physics.

Please, enlighten me.

(go, on you know this is the only time I'll ask and mean it).

[rickinator9]

The ancient alien guy has a degree you guys.....in sports information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_A._Tsoukalos

The only thing alien here is the guys hair.

[Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla]

Isn't there an ancient religion, where they believe the gods came down and mated with early humanoids, thus creating hybrids and humans are the said hybrids of these aliens and primitive apes?

Then there are also the wacky hieroglyphics that look like helicopters and jets

What?

You mean Judaism/Christianity/Islam?

[Ibrahim]

The only thing alien here is the guys hair.

even that has an earthly explanation possible: he has not taste, and uses too much hair gel.

[Fragony]

The only thing alien here is the guys hair.

Close encounter of the worst kind

[HoreTore]

No.... don't get it.

Sorry.

This is why I became a mixed-theologian and literary scholar. Now please send my mother a letter explaining that I am too stupid to do physics.

Please, enlighten me.

(go, on you know this is the only time I'll ask and mean it).

Hmmmm....

Well, try counting the days of the week. Start at monday at 00:00, marking that time "day 1". Fast forwards 24 hours, now you're at day 2, and the clock is 00:00 on tuesday. Do that all the way to Sunday at 23:59, and you'll notice our week consists of 8 days. If one was to start at Day 0, however, you'd end up on the correct number of days, 7.

That was an over-simplified explanation, of course, the problems the ancients had with calendars waren't that simple. They had figured out various methods of making calendars(ie. counting days and time) more accurate even without a zero, but the concept of zero made things even more accurate.

Our way of counting sounds really obvious, and it is quite hard to wrap our minds around it, think like they did before and see the problem. That really isn't because it's so obvious, but rather because we see zero as so obvious a concept, we can't understand how one cannot understand zero.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, reading history, I always wondered about the Teosinte.

Basically, some 7000 years ago, the south american tribes suddenly became experts at manipulating weeds. They took a pretty much inedible weed and must have spent GENERATIONS transforming it into maize, or "corn" by today's vocabulary. Now, why they spent countless generations trying to make a weed a main staple of food we don't know. There must have been so many more easily accessible routs to food sources.

As science have it today, there really is no logical explanation as to how this happened.

However, what we know, is that a simple weed was transformed into what became the basis for the whole civilization down there. It wasn't only the main food, but was also used for trade and so on. The society obviously put great weight on it.


You smart people out there, look into this, it's actually quite fascinating.

I am not saying that Aliens swooped down and helped us out by taking one of our weeds and with their advanced tech easily made a food source that could sustain us... I am saying that that explanation seem at LEAST as logical, if not more, compared to the alternative that science offer as of today, that we would have had spent countless generations turning something inedible into a main staple.

I stumbled upon the whole maize discussion way earlier, and I have always been fascinated by it... Either the south Americans of 7000 years ago would have almost modern knowledge of cultivation and an extremely wide time span for a people with an expected life length of about twenty years, or...

[Gelatinous Cube]

All I have to say is.. anything is possible.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Kadagar_AV]

Maize is the result of human propagation of a series of random genetic mutations that transformed it from a simple grass into a bizarre, gigantic mutant that can no longer survive in the wild

The two plants look very different. But just a few genetic mutations, it turns out, were sufficient to transform one into the other.

Teosinte has a highly branched architecture with multiple stalks, each of which has one male inflorescence (the tassel) and several female inflorescences (the ears). Maize, however, has a single stalk with no branches, a single tassel at the top, and far fewer but much larger ears halfway up the stalk, enclosed in a leafy husk.

But maize could only become a dietary mainstay with the help of a further technological twist, since it is deficient in the amino acids lysine and tryptophan, and the vitamin niacin, which are essential elements of a healthy human diet.

A maize heavy diet results in pellagra, a nutritional disease characterized by nausea, rough skin, sensitivity to light, and dementia

Fortunately, maize can be rendered safe by treating it with calcium hydroxide, in the form of ash from burnt wood or crushed shells, which is either added directly to the cooking pot, or mixed with water to create an alkaline solution in which the maize is left to soak overnight.

All of this demonstrates that maize is not a naturally occurring food at all. Its development has been described by one modern scientist as the most impressive feat of domestication and genetic modification ever undertaken. It is a complex technology, developed by humans over successive generations to the point where maize was ultimately incapable of surviving on its own in the wild, but could deliver enough food to sustain entire civilizations.

[Kadagar_AV]

Could be down to human ingenuity...

Could be down to Aliens.

Could be down to a burning bush telling us what to do...

But regardless - I don't want south American farmers to have a sway in my moral, or daily, decisions.





EDIT: I forgot to add: Teosinte literary means "God's Corn"... Go ponder.

[spankythehippo]

This theory sounds very much like The First Civilisation in Assassin's Creed...

[Strike For The South]

As science have it today, there really is no logical explanation as to how this happened.

...

ಠ_ಠ

[Kadagar_AV]

ಠ_ಠ

Oh come on, you are a big boy now, use your words... What part did you dispute and why?

[The Stranger]

there are many more of such interesting stories.

there is one about a tribe in africa which knew about all the 9 planets in our solar system before many of them were "discovered" by western austronomers and they also "know" about a 10th planet.

[Sigurd]

[jht]

there are many more of such interesting stories.

there is one about a tribe in africa which knew about all the 9 planets in our solar system before many of them were "discovered" by western austronomers and they also "know" about a 10th planet.

But there are only eight planets...

[Fragony]

Hmmmm....

Well, try counting the days of the week. Start at monday at 00:00, marking that time "day 1". Fast forwards 24 hours, now you're at day 2, and the clock is 00:00 on tuesday. Do that all the way to Sunday at 23:59, and you'll notice our week consists of 8 days. If one was to start at Day 0, however, you'd end up on the correct number of days, 7.

That was an over-simplified explanation, of course, the problems the ancients had with calendars waren't that simple. They had figured out various methods of making calendars(ie. counting days and time) more accurate even without a zero, but the concept of zero made things even more accurate.

Our way of counting sounds really obvious, and it is quite hard to wrap our minds around it, think like they did before and see the problem. That really isn't because it's so obvious, but rather because we see zero as so obvious a concept, we can't understand how one cannot understand zero.

Gimme 0.1 x 0.1 in roman numbers, or sticks and stones as you said was possible. You are going to need a lot of them so you better start collecting them

Oh and while you are at it I also want a perfect circle without using pi

[HoreTore]

Gimme 0.1 x 0.1 in roman numbers, or sticks and stones as you said was possible. You are going to need a lot of them so you better start collecting them

Oh and while you are at it I also want a perfect circle without using pi

You want 0.1 in roman numbers? Think back to your childhood, frags. What's the name for decimals you used in elementary school? Decimalfractions. A decimal is another method of writing fractions.

So, 0.1 in roman numbers would be I/X(one-tenth). 0.1x0.1 would be I/X x I/X. I x I is I, X x X is C, giving I/C as the answer, or 0.01.

That was just an example, the romans used a more complex system for fractions based on 12(since it's easier to divide by 12 than by 10), as well as having their own set of symbols for fractions.

Pi was known by a ton of ancient civilizations, like the egyptians, greeks, babylonians and chinese. The earliest recorded method of finding pi is by Archimedes, who found it using approximations by geometric figures.

[HoreTore]

there are many more of such interesting stories.

there is one about a tribe in africa which knew about all the 9 planets in our solar system before many of them were "discovered" by western austronomers and they also "know" about a 10th planet.

If they had 10 planets in their system, they weren't so great after all, seeing as they were wrong?