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Thread: Total war: North and south next title?

  1. #1

    Default Total war: North and south next title?

    Now that i've played fall of the samurai for a little bit i think the next game should be about the civil war why? you may ask? because we have the following features


    -Ironclads
    -Gattleng guns
    -ship to land bombardment
    -kneel fire
    -19th centry weaponry

  2. #2
    Member Member I_damian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    I hope not. I'd like them to visit pre-gunpowder China with the next game. One of the most remarkable civilizations of all time, they use Sun Tzu's quotes often enough in their loading screens, it's about time they give him some game time!
    Last edited by I_damian; 06-10-2012 at 17:48. Reason: Spilling merstakes
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    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh rameses II View Post
    Now that i've played fall of the samurai for a little bit i think the next game should be about the civil war why? you may ask? because we have the following features


    -Ironclads
    -Gattleng guns
    -ship to land bombardment
    -kneel fire
    -19th centry weaponry
    Which of course makes the equally compelling argument why it wouldn't be this one next, because we've already seen all of these in action in FOTS.

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    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh rameses II View Post
    Now that i've played fall of the samurai for a little bit i think the next game should be about the civil war why? you may ask? because we have the following features


    -Ironclads
    -Gattleng guns
    -ship to land bombardment
    -kneel fire
    -19th centry weaponry
    I'm also not looking forward to TW: ACW. The scope is just too small and I'm totally not interested in seeing trench warfare introduced.
    Last edited by Peasant Phill; 06-11-2012 at 11:29.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Well the game could have similar mechanics to fall of the samurai you choose a state in the us it could be on the side of the confederacy or the union or you could go independent and make something like the california republic

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    Member Member Noncommunist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh rameses II View Post
    Well the game could have similar mechanics to fall of the samurai you choose a state in the us it could be on the side of the confederacy or the union or you could go independent and make something like the california republic
    Or include the British in Canada and perhaps they could deal with Fenians or involve themselves in the Civil war and include the French invading Mexico as well as Mexico itself. And I think there was a threat of Mexico becoming involved in the Civil War.

    Another possibility for that period might be South America where there were a number of wars.

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    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh rameses II View Post
    Well the game could have similar mechanics to fall of the samurai you choose a state in the us it could be on the side of the confederacy or the union or you could go independent and make something like the california republic
    The difference being that the Japanese factions were warring amongst themselves. I don't see the states (apart from the North-South divide).
    Quote Originally Posted by Drone
    Someone has to watch over the wheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    We've made our walls sufficiently thick that we don't even hear the wet thuds of them bashing their brains against the outer wall and falling as lifeless corpses into our bottomless moat.

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    Member Member Liberator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peasant Phill View Post
    The difference being that the Japanese factions were warring amongst themselves. I don't see the states (apart from the North-South divide).
    Agreed.

    As we already had the creation of imperial Japan, I would like to see the wars that lead to the creations of 'imperial' Italy and Germany in the 19th century out of several smaller states, with final battles against the french and austrian oppressors
    Last edited by Liberator; 06-11-2012 at 22:43.
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    Provost Moderator Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    The ACW has a huge strategic problem to deal with that makes it unsuitable. There are just two factions and the Confederacy had no chance so long as the Union was willing to fight long enough to achieve victory. The Federals manifestly were willing despite the enormous cost.

    If Europeans are part of a “what if?” scenario you might have a game though it would be too fantastic IMO.

    Nevertheless, the TW franchise has proven that it can accommodate 19th century tactical gunfire very well in FotS. Whether this play style appeals to enough players is a question. Cavalry charges and melee don’t amount to much compared to massed rifle and artillery firepower. Not to mention that the late 19th century brought a close to the days when a decisive battle was likely to take place on a single day. Great decisive battles are important for the TW strategy/tactical marriage to work properly and still feel right for the setting of the game.
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    Member Member Noncommunist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    What about west Africa shortly before colonization? There, you have Islam, Christianity, and Animism all interacting. Similarly to Japan, you have various statelets trying to modernize and assume more power which means they'd be interacting with the various European trade posts in the area. Also, you'd have Liberia as a state which could become independent of the American Colonization Society. And by having it take place in the 1800s, the slave trade is mostly over so one controversial issue wouldn't have to be handled by the game.

    Perhaps at the end of the game, Britain, France, and Germany could start their colonization and the player would have to figure out how to survive. Possibly similar to the Mongol/Timurid invasions at the end of the MTW2 except they'd probably have a greater technology edge.
    Last edited by Noncommunist; 06-13-2012 at 02:31.

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    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noncommunist View Post
    What about west Africa shortly before colonization? There, you have Islam, Christianity, and Animism all interacting. Similarly to Japan, you have various statelets trying to modernize and assume more power which means they'd be interacting with the various European trade posts in the area. Also, you'd have Liberia as a state which could become independent of the American Colonization Society. And by having it take place in the 1800s, the slave trade is mostly over so one controversial issue wouldn't have to be handled by the game.

    Perhaps at the end of the game, Britain, France, and Germany could start their colonization and the player would have to figure out how to survive. Possibly similar to the Mongol/Timurid invasions at the end of the MTW2 except they'd probably have a greater technology edge.
    I would certainly want to play that. Though I doubt an African TW is econically interesting enough for CA/SEGA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drone
    Someone has to watch over the wheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    We've made our walls sufficiently thick that we don't even hear the wet thuds of them bashing their brains against the outer wall and falling as lifeless corpses into our bottomless moat.

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    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Yeah the fanbase for TW seems to be overwhelmingly western. I get the sense that even a Japanese setting is too unfamiliar for some people. Plus the marketing likes to put something familiar like a redcoat/knight on the cover. If China has been too much of a strech so far, I suspect we will be waiting a long time for West Africa:TW.

  13. #13
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Russia, the civil war of 1917-23... This was a rather dynamic war with many participating sides [communists, socialists, anarchists, royalists, nationalists (Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Georgians, Balts, Finns, etc.) , foreign powers (UK, France, Japan, even the US), run-away merc forces (leftover German armies, Czhech legion), you name it...]: much more fun than the ACW, if anyone asks me. On top of that, the detested trench warfare did not really happen to any significant extent during this conflict; cavalry was still used and armored trains [think, Trans-Siberian railway] played a significant role too.

    Here, for a taste, just one little episode of this war : "...Entente Allies began their Siberian Intervention, with troops from the U.S., France, Great Britain, and Japan landing in Vladivostok, which the Czechoslovaks had controlled for some time. In Vladivostok, however, the Allied rescue of the Czechoslovak Legion got sidetracked. The Japanese forces arrived in April 1918 with 500 marines, followed by 50 British soldiers in May, 500 Americans in June, and 600 more British and some French in late June 1918. They arrived to find a changed situation, with open warfare going on between the Bolsheviks on one side and the Czechoslovak Legions and White Russians on the other. Moreover, World War I hostilities ended in November 1918, making the whole mission to bring the Czechs and Slovaks to France and fight on the Western front pointless. An already confused situation deteriorated, and the Japanese got directly involved in the fighting on the side of the Czechoslovak Legion and of White Russians when their government saw this as a territorial opportunity. By September 1918 there were 70,000 Japanese, 829 British, 1,400 Italian, 5,002 American and 107 Annamese (Vietnamese) troops under French command in and around Vladivostok. The chaos in Siberia included the arrival of eight train cars of gold bullion from the Imperial reserve in Kazan. There were atrocities by both Red Army and White Russian forces – and particularly by the Cossacks of Ataman Semenov, now in the pay of the Japanese." (as per Wikipedia)

    I do not think, this war will make it into a TW game though, LOL...
    Last edited by Slaists; 06-15-2012 at 19:41.

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    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post

    I do not think, this war will make it into a TW game though, LOL...
    We can dream however.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drone
    Someone has to watch over the wheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    We've made our walls sufficiently thick that we don't even hear the wet thuds of them bashing their brains against the outer wall and falling as lifeless corpses into our bottomless moat.

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    Member Member Liberator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noncommunist View Post
    What about west Africa shortly before colonization? There, you have Islam, Christianity, and Animism all interacting. Similarly to Japan, you have various statelets trying to modernize and assume more power which means they'd be interacting with the various European trade posts in the area. Also, you'd have Liberia as a state which could become independent of the American Colonization Society. And by having it take place in the 1800s, the slave trade is mostly over so one controversial issue wouldn't have to be handled by the game.

    Perhaps at the end of the game, Britain, France, and Germany could start their colonization and the player would have to figure out how to survive. Possibly similar to the Mongol/Timurid invasions at the end of the MTW2 except they'd probably have a greater technology edge.
    Sounds interesting, but several things in this scenario are flawed/unclear:
    -What timeframe do you think of? 'Shortly before coloniatization' would be around 1500.
    -Christianity did not existed in Africa before colonialzation (except in Egypt and Ethiopia)
    -it would be rather Spain (probably not really, given its focus on latin america), Portugal and the Nederlands (besides the obvious two, England and France) to be active as colonial powers, Germany did not played a significant role in Africa until the German Empire was created in 1871, same goes for Italy.
    Last edited by Liberator; 06-17-2012 at 15:31.
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    Member Member Noncommunist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Quote Originally Posted by al Roumi View Post
    Yeah the fanbase for TW seems to be overwhelmingly western. I get the sense that even a Japanese setting is too unfamiliar for some people. Plus the marketing likes to put something familiar like a redcoat/knight on the cover. If China has been too much of a strech so far, I suspect we will be waiting a long time for West Africa:TW.
    On the other hand, there are quite a few people in the US with descent from west Africa. Still unfamiliar but it would introduce a game where those people would see people of their race are leaders of factions rather than merely being troops that can be raised by the Moors or Egyptians.

    Also, I guess if the British or French were present, that would involve some familiar elements even if they wouldn't play a major role till near the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by Liberator View Post
    Sounds interesting, but several things in this scenario are flawed/unclear:
    -What timeframe do you think of? 'Shortly before coloniatization' would be around 1500.
    -Christianity did not existed in Africa before colonialzation (except in Egypt and Ethiopia)
    -it would be rather Spain (probably not really, given its focus on latin america), Portugal and the Nederlands (besides the obvious two, England and France) to be active as colonial powers, Germany did not played a significant role in Africa until the German Empire was created in 1871, same goes for Italy.
    Large scale colonization of Africa didn't start till the 1880s. However, there were trading outposts there since the 1400s. Thus, there was some Christianity but not to a large extent till full colonization. Not sure if it was as common as it was in Japan. As for the Germans, they did establish a colony in Togo though they didn't get involved till pretty late and the Portuguese and Dutch were pretty involved when it largely involved trade.
    Last edited by Noncommunist; 06-18-2012 at 23:54.

  17. #17
    The Original Smart-Ass Senior Member Graphic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    The limit in factions means ACW:TW wouldn't be suitable as a full title, but I can see it as an expansion to Empire 2 if that game was set in the 19th century.

    My list of what I want most is:

    1. 1600s. Colonies from scratch or in their relative infancy for most factions, Thirty Years War, sectarian violence (the return of religion as a force in TW), the gradual fade of plate armored knights and spearmen to gunpowder armies, English Civil War expansion, etc... the 1600s is never talked about as a possible TW game but to me it offers the most compelling possibilities.

    2. Empire 2 set in the 19th century - They don't have to throw out the nice mechanics introduced in FotS, very good possibilities for expansions (aforementioned ACW, but also Crimean War and Franco Prussian), a much larger map (hopefully the entire world). A campaign focused on the rush for Africa would be very interesting tactically, though probably not likely since it'd basically be a simulation of wanton slaughter and enslavement.

    3. Asia: Total War with particular focus on Mongols and their descendant domains. There would be an Asian grand campaign from Turkey and Egypt to Korea, from India and Indonesia to Siberia. But the possibilities for more specific campaigns are numerous and exciting. Genghis uniting the tribes, Mongol invasion of China, the Golden Horde invading Eastern Europe (IIRC they were gearing up to annihilate Poland and other kingdoms near her when it was called off to Kublai Khan's death -- imagine how different history would be today if Germany had been desolated or been subject to a Mongol vassal state), Tamerlane, invasion of Korea, invasian of Japan, etc. etc. etc.

    4. Rome 2. We can finally have those Ben Hur naval battles, but this is number four because I don't think CA will be able to resist fantasy units when making this. Head chuckers, naked berserkers, bronze age Egyptians, and screaming women will return. Also because we'll be back to the same old European map we've been restricted to, without extra theaters, in 4 Total War games.
    Last edited by Graphic; 06-24-2012 at 06:51.


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    Member Member edbenedict77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Total war: North and south next title?

    Ok so Now CA is making RIITW. But I sincerely hope after making RIITW an Epic game, with all the good features fromm all the previous TW games, they will make Ancient China TW or Empire 2 TW, where a larger map is covered and with the Shogun 2 mechanics. It will be quite a winner. I think anything that does not involve flying dragons will be a winner for the titles after RIITW. TW has always been about historical era, so I hope they make one about Ancient China and its many dynasties, with Mongolian conquest as expansion. And I do hope they will make spin-off games about the American Civil war and Crimean war. Because they are different maps and many different units can be included in them. Maybe CA has vision of incorporating ariel warfare in the future to expand into the Great War and WWII period, but honestly I cannot think of a way that will be possible in the campaign map..... Maybe the geniuses in CA will think of a way to do it :)
    Last edited by edbenedict77; 09-16-2012 at 05:26.

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