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Thread: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Rome 2 total war as been announced as many of you must have seen.
    Like in the previous rome, they might commit the same mistake of depicting the northern european factions as mindless, stereotypical, hollywoodian Barbarian.
    I know that this team initial goal was exactly to correct this by putting more emphasis on those cultures, hence the name Europa Barbarorum.
    I also think that you contacted CA in the development phase of rome total war in order to convince them to depict northern european more accurately, and give them the civilized look they deserved.

    The time as come to defend to get up and defend those civilization again.
    This time, CA might be more receptive : it's been almost 10 year since rome total war, CA must have undergone many change. In the employee section as well as in the overall direction. Just look at the historical accuracy of shogun 2 total war compared to rome total war : CA put an accent on this accuracy.
    But, I fear that many in CA, even in the history department still have that sterotypical view of the gauls,germans,britons of less civilized than the roman,greeks...

    However i'm pretty sure that this time, CA would be more receptive, considering the reason mentioned above and also the fact that they are still in very early development and apparently did not already conceive the factions.

    It's time to fulfill this mod's team initial goal : to raise awareness in CA about the refinement and complexity of the northern european civilization (celts and germans to be more precise), and prevent their depiction as generic primitive men.

    So are you going to contact CA like you did 8 years ago? Now is the best time to act, since the game is still in very early phase, and CA might be very receptive. They must even be searching documentation right now on this time period.

    It's now or never, let's do it :thumbsup2







    PS : I will post this message in many europa barbarorum forums/sections, since i'm not sure which one is active and which one isn't, and I think it should be discussed in the most active section. Thanks for your comprehension :) .



    EDIT : PS :

    I made a thread in the rome 2 total war section of the TWcenter forums. My name in those forums is akarnir. I was banned because of a misunderstanding, but they agreed to keep the thread :) .

    It's about how the Gauls should be depicted more accurately in the next total war forums, how their cities should have more majesty and how their unit should look less generic (translate to : they should look like in Europa Barbarorum :) ).

    The link is here : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548834

    I also look up to you guys to participate and keep the thread alive. If this thread becomes big, CA might get aware of the matter. It's the best way to inform them if they aren't already.

    So don't hesitate to go in this thread : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548834 and to participate in the debate, add more informations, and defend this cause.

    Thanks :), I really hope this thread get the attention it deserve.
    Last edited by wangchang; 07-06-2012 at 23:24.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Don't get your hopes up. Historical accuracy has never been a priority for CA. Gauls and Germans are nothing - I wouldn't be surprised if the Egyptians were depicted in the same way they were depicted in RTW1 and it was simply idiotic...

    If the game is moddable, things like that won't be a big issue, but if it isn't...

  3. #3
    Apprentice Geologist Member Blxz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Nothing will change. EB is a drop in the ocean compared to the number of people who will be buying Rome 2 expecting 'normal' history. CA want their version of gameplay not history dominated stuff.

    I am still reading people in other forums saying they want other games to be more historical and character driven so they can play one of the "3 great roman factions like the julii, scipii and brutii". Hmm, i wonder where they got their 'history' from?
    Its a little sad, but I suspect more of the same from Rome 2.
    Completed Campaigns:
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    Qart'Hadarst EB 1.2 / Hai EB 1.2
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    donated by Brennus for attention to detail.

  4. #4
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    I think the team will watch this with interest, certainly I will, though I cannot speak for others.

    As regards contacting CA - I'm afraid that this game will have been in development since Shogan II was released, if not since Empire, certainly all concepting and research will be done and I don't think it would be fruitful to contact CA again. For one thing, we have already made a strong pitch with EBI which demonstrated that historical accuracy can be accessable and fun. I would be very surprised if some of EB's content isn't reflected in Rome 2, not least because we provided huge amounts of "unit Porn" for them.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Yet, if you don't try you cannot know for sure. The release is planned in late 2013, so they still have a lot of work to do. Right now they must still be working on the engine and technical stuff, the units and faction will be done in the last year of development.

    You have nothing to loose with trying and you don't know but i'm pretty sure CA has changed this time : have you seen shogun 2 total war ? Everything was historically accurate, units were extremely accurately detailed as well as factions, even to the point of boringness because they didn't add other factions like mongols (since they never came in japan it would have been inaccurate) and they didn't created fancy units to make factions different. In their last 3 games : Napoleon, shogun 2 and fall of the samurai, they focused a lot on historical accuracy, even winning an award in napoleon from the college of historian.
    Their employees and direction changed in 8 years, so the new team may be more receptive.

    Also don't forget that you (the team) are not the same as 8 year before. You have gained a lot of notability and you have a huge reputation, surely within CA itself.
    You will have way more credibility than 8 year before : this will be the team that made the biggest and very popular mod for rome total war that will advise CA, not just random people like 8 years ago.

    I don't think CA has any interest in depicting them as savage, but they probably didn't really paid attention to the matter and might end up reusing the old set. But if you warn them, they might realize. With your reputation , they will probably consider you as independent expert now because of your reputation, and company tend to hear experts.

    In the end, if nobody tells them, they won't bother to pay attention to the problem if they haven't noticed. But if YOU, europa barbarorum team tells them, there is a good chance that they notice and act accordingly. Also, they can be lazy and maybe they haven't really begin their research work on all faction (they don't really have a lot of historians working for them). So if you provide them with the information about the germans/celts factions and they will probably take it, too happy not to have to research it themselves (so no paying for extra research).
    Considering you reputation, they will see you as independent experts, giving them advice for free and making them win a good amount of time and money.



    In the end I think it's really worth trying again. The odds are not the same as before : CA changed, and YOU changed, you gained a huge lot of reputation and notability and proved, even to CA, that you can be considered as experts.

    IT'S A ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE! Take it, you won't have the occasion again, you have all to win, nothing to loose.
    Last edited by wangchang; 07-03-2012 at 15:06.

  6. #6
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    8 years ago we did indeed contact CA. This time I don't know if it would be needed or be usefull. Personally I've seen no images or information on historical concepts, units, factions,... They did however say they will make every faction unique. That's all the information out there.

    Personally I don't feel we should be telling CA, or anyone else how to make a game. They know about us and if they need historical information they can just read our previews and our information in EB I. They know where to find us. Of course if they want more information from us, we'd be happy to help and they'd just have to contact one of us.

  7. #7
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Personally I've seen no images or information on historical concepts, units, factions
    I pulled a bunch of information out of the various news articles and interviews that got released yesterday, and compiled it here. As expected for an initial game announcement, there's not much to go on. However, they did specifically list a bunch of factions: Gaul, Germanic Tribes, Carthage, Egypt, Parthia, Dacia, and Cappadocia, as well as multiple Roman factions.


  8. #8
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    I pulled a bunch of information out of the various news articles and interviews that got released yesterday, and compiled it here. As expected for an initial game announcement, there's not much to go on. However, they did specifically list a bunch of factions: Gaul, Germanic Tribes, Carthage, Egypt, Parthia, Dacia, and Cappadocia, as well as multiple Roman factions.
    They said no faction from the original is going to be left out as well.
    About the Roman factions isn't that speculation from the writer of the article?

    Edit:Wangchang, if you want to list your ideas and wishes, you might want to post them here:
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...8and-beyond%29
    Perhaps they get spotted by CA there.
    Last edited by Moros; 07-03-2012 at 16:54.

  9. #9
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    About the Roman factions isn't that speculation from the writer of the article?
    I got it from this bit:

    That’ll be even more given that Russell hints at something similar to Fall of the Samurai’s Realm Divide mechanic for the Roman factions - Empire or Republic seems like a likely choice.


    True, it's not a direct quote from CA, but the speculation seems to the Realm Divide mechanic, not "the Roman factions." Plus, they also said the Senate was it's own thing with it's own agenda... and that Rome can turn into an Empire, which means a Roman Civil War. Hard to have a civil war with only one faction. And, if they're including all the original factions, that means Julii, Brutii, and Scipii as well.

    So, you are right that it hasn't been directly confirmed yet, but I'd put the odds at about 99.5%.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Rome 2 Total War and Europa Barbarorum

    You have more chance, being to europa barbarorum team to have your ideas spotted by CA than me. It's not worth trying for me.
    But for you it's worth it. Honnestly, if you don't tell CA they won't go check on your forums, lets be realistic. But if you contact CA and make a comprehensive argumentation, there is a good chance that you will get their attention.
    The simple step will be enough just to get their attention. Of all the hundreds of sources that exist, why would CA spontaneously go to your forums? You have to make the demarche to get their attention amongst all the other sources they could go see. You have to stand out, and the best way to do this is to contact them.

    It's just like a job : if you want to have one particular job, you have to contact the employer, else he will not spontaneously contact you amongst all the thousands possible candidate.

    If you make the effort of exposing them your knowledge and viewpoint, they will surely take it into account, considering your status as a very successful mod team.
    There is also a good chance that you contact them while the are about the begin the faction creation phase : just at the right moment. At that point they will be more than happy to receive free, complete and comprehensive information from a really reputable source. It will save them a lot of money and time since the design, the descriptions have all been done and are adapted for a total war game.
    This is the good time to strike. Don't assume they won't hear you without even trying : that is lame and it's like spoiling a dream chance.
    I'm, looking up to you guys :) I know you can do it.

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