I've just finished watching the E3 demo. What can I say? It looks like an arcade game. I probably won't even get it before the first major realism mods come out and I certainly don't plan to buy a new computer just for RTW2. If it turns out that the game isn't very moddable, then I probably won't buy it at all.
Seconded. It looks far too fast, silly, and based on gimmicks.
What I cannot understand is why the CA keeps using the same old, stupid, unrealistic and ridiculous "synchronised flying soldiers" effect during charges. Come on, it doesn't even look cool. In LOTR, the overpowered Rohan charge doesn't send orcs flying, the projectiles fired from trebuchets just smash the enemies etc. What is the appeal of this effect, then? Wouldn't even a casual gamer want to see something more brutal and less silly?
The price alone is bad enough to turn me off. US$80 is a little high for me to stomach, especially with the aussie dollar losing ground to the US dollar now. CA has, for me, been in a steady quality decline since rome1 and medieval 2; each subsequent game has been worse than the last. I still fail to understand why so many people liked Shogun 2.
Completed Campaigns:
Macedonia EB 0.81 / Saby'n EB 1.1
Qart'Hadarst EB 1.2 / Hai EB 1.2
Current Campiagns:
Getai/Sauromatae/Baktria
donated by Brennus for attention to detail.
The E3 demo was a massive disappointment. They DO have historians. They must ignore them for commercial reasons. They genuinely think (perhaps correctly) that these gimmicks will sell games, rather than any attempt at realism. It is sad.
Everything depends on how moddable it is. I didn't buy S2, and I constantly hope they will take the combat model forward, but it seems they have spent all their time on firey balls of hay and exploding trebuchet bullets.
It's a pity that the CA doesn't have any real competition and all TW clones are so bad. Even most of the whiners on the TWC will buy the game in the end, heh. I think that the CA believes that their games will have good sales as long as the graphics is good and they may be right.
I'm sure Rome 2 will sell just fine, its graphics are top notch and its arcade gameplay is sure to appeal to a wide enough demographic that everyone from die-hards like ourselves to 10 y/o Johnny are going to be lining up.
With that said, with the previews coming out of CA, it's become clear that historical realism or accuracy is, as always, taking a backseat. or really is being held hostage locked in the trunk. With CA's policy of making their games less modable with each iteration, their interest to me is slowly waning.
I have been playing TW since the days of shogun 1 and I can say very truthfully that EB2 will blow Rome 2 out of the f'ing water, in any measurable respect aside from perhaps graphics. EB is one of the finest mods made for any game anywhere and I'm certain EB2 will be as well, I've been looking forward to EB2 since the release of EB1,
Rome 2 wil be a ship in the night.
I thank everyone who believes in EB2 and will be waiting for our work to come out. It has been a long and hard road, but with nearly 200 units fully finished and work in the settlements in motion, I feel we're almost there.
However, I must ask everyone to not bash on CA in our forum. As a multi-generational team we have always been respectful of their work and efforts to provide entertaining TW experiences.
I sincerely hope and fervently wish that RTW2 be a stunning success, and due to that, CA may come forward with a proper tool that allows us to build the next generation of the EB mod, just as this one is taking its final shape. Perhaps I'm shocking the guys back on the team by saying this while we're still struggling in EB2, but the Christmas present that I want from CA is a proper tool to mod RTW2. But don't get any ideas: we're not planning any engine switch. :)
"Death Smiles at Us All,all a Man Can Do Is Smile Back."
Maximvs Decimvs Meridivs, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, Iberian Gladiator.
Well, ATM high moddability is at the top of my wishlist for RTW2. Even if Vanilla is arcade, the modders will be able to overhaul the game if it's very moddable. It would greatly increase the game's longevity, too.
Almost 200 units? Nice. Maybe there is a chance for the first release before Christmas after all ;).
Last edited by Cybvep; 06-18-2013 at 23:53.
I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.
my 4 year old modding project--nearing completion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506 (if you wanna help, join me).
tired of ridiculous trouble with walking animations? then you need my brand newmotion capture for the common man!
"We have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if we put the belonging to, in the I don't know what, all gas lines will explode " -alBernameg
you better not i don´t feel like buying a new tw game atm :X
you should run for office that is a very politically correct thing to say
and i do agree with the efforts that ca as put into their games and allowed us to evolve both on pleasure and in knowledge but i feel like most people that ever since ca and sega teamed up the games have went jap/korean hardcore with lots of lights explosions click buttons as fast as possible and don´t stop to think and plan ahead
i like a proper chess game as most people who are in this forum but ca and sega have been disapointing us ever since the last rome total war and therefore and altough i understand your need to keep this forum unbiased and friendly towards the owners of the franchise the truth is that they are money blind and not caring about our needs anymore as someone stated if they had more proper competition i believe they would be trying harder (but like most greedy companies they´ll only understand when it´s almost too late because thats the truth of what really happens when passion disapears and cold hard numbers take over)
Hello all,
Did you guys manage to see this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPQCn7beqew
Last edited by Lusitani; 06-23-2013 at 20:24. Reason: Link corrected
"Deep in Iberia there is a tribe that doesn't rule itself, nor allows anyone to rule it" - Gaius Julius Caesar.
The link is broken.
Seems like you forgot an ":".
And now on to your question:
Atleast I did.
It seems like the map will be full of nothing but cities late game (did he really say 3-4 times the size?).
And while some depth seems to be lacking, atleast in that build, it looks really nice so far.
This is the third time I've reviewed this entire thread-line, and I've composed my thoughts and wanted to share my thoughts on RTW2, as I am a die-hard fan of realism and authenticity.
1) The latest videos do have that feel of Rome: Total War for me, and while they do have 'general's abilities' I don't find that so abhorrent; in the end it is a game, and we still have the rally call in EB, don't we?
2) I've scoured the net for intense articles of Q&A about the game, many questions which seem as if they could have been plucked out of these forums. From what I have read, rest assured the team is very intent on making an EXCELLENT game. They not only have used metrics based on users' choices but also listened to people's questions and optimized the gameplay to retain depth and vim while reducing needless micromanagement (I was in EB Today and I realized I hadn't removed any of the conquered factions' government buildings... it was quite tedious and took me a good half hour of wasted time. I am happy to think that this won't be the case in RTW2.)
3) It saddens me to see people bash the game, and attack it for either not being a simulation, being too arcadey, or completing throwing out core features which the original game had. Whether the former or latter or last or combination of the three we won't know until the game comes out. Fortunately, what I have seen is getting progressively more brilliant and appealing, and I hope that we here, with all our reverence for Europa Barbarorum, will come to appreciate the effort of CA if it indeed is as well-crafted as I believe it to be, and at least approach it with an open mind.
I also am still looking forward to EB:2
We can't know for sure what the game will be like until it comes out but....from the previews and from the Q&A the point still stands; in terms of R2:TW and EB2 being in any way similar, there is no comparison. R2:TW is, as you say, a game, and a game devised to appeal to the widest possible audience. That wide audience is not interested, necessarily, in historicity so much as gratifying pre-conceived ideas they have; particularly of Rome and its glory. It appears, also, to veer toward novelty over reality.
The language of the previews still points toward an idea of the 'barbarian' cultures (the name says it all really) being near sub-human savages in need of civilising by the Romans.
There doesn't seem to be a particularly large variation in unit types, and they seem - by and large - rather stereotyped and....flaming pigs are back (along with new hurled boulders and flaming balls). It is, to all intents and purposes, R:TW with flashy graphics and a few new bits (naval warfare, for example).
I don't want to be entirely negative, but even the good things they seem to have put in they have weakened. A clue as to how immersive it is likely to be; the 'character' boosts, which are preset. For example House of Julia will be particularly good at defeating the subhumans...I mean barbarians; why? Well because Caesar defeated the Gauls...over 200 years after the start date. No sense of characters earning particular traits. The whole thing seems arbitrary, and seems often to be based upon events that took place between 200-300 years after the start date (Iceni, Boudicca; Alemanni, Arminius; House of Julia, barbarians).
Simply put; there is no comparison between R2:TW and EB2. There are two very different audiences, and two very different conceptions behind both games. Let's not forget, also, that EB2 is made for free, by individuals working in their own time to bring it to us.
Oh and...how on Earth can they claim that Shogun 2 is the most moddable game of the TW series? What? If R2:TW turns out to be moddable to any reasonable extent then it may become interesting but...in terms of the dynamics of the games there is no comparison between EB2 and R2:TW; they are not for the same audience.
One other thing. From the brief glimpses of the campaign game (I know its only a pre-amble, but..) the battle AI seems just as stupid (perhaps even more so) than in R:TW. What I have seen doesn't convey any sense of a need for tactical nouse on the battlefield. The more I see, the less enamored I become.
Let's be realistic here - the AI will be as crappy as ever. It's never been the focus of the CA. They prioritise the flashy stuff, the AI is of secondary importance. We can expect the AI to get better with patches, though. I will be greatly surprised if the AI is any good in the 1.0 version.
I rarely buy strategy games on their release day nowadays. Wait&see, that's my approach. IMO a SP-focused strategy game without at least a semi-competent AI is a waste of time, at least until the modders make the game more interesting. I'm sick of getting the game only to stop playing the moment I get accustomed to the game mechanics (this is when the game should become the most fun), so I usually play the older games, which are already patched, polished and tried. I will probably wait several months before I touch RTW2.
Last edited by Cybvep; 08-12-2013 at 10:32.
Rome 2: Total Bargain Price.
That's my opinion on Rome 2. Going to wait... For EB 2 I just play other stuff (Trying out Paradox games, EB1, Chivalry Total War mod, etc) while waiting for it. EB 2 will be well worth my time/effort.
Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM
My expectations of R2TW were pretty much what we've been shown up to now, so I can't say I'm disappointed. Logic and rational demanded that I never imagine even for a moment that it could deliver the experience of EB/EB2. However, I'll be buying it. For the singular reason and hope that one day it will be the basis of EB3. And I don't think I'm alone in this regard.
In my opinion, the capabilities and sheer scale of the R2 engine in the hands of the EB team would result in the Holy Grail of RTS gaming.
Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM
I finally took some time and watched R2TW game videos by CA a little bit longer, about phalanx, the skirmish battle, sea combat and the Teutoburg trailer. I'm really happy about the graphics and the animations and I'm quite shocked how arcade this game feels. My overall impression: not near to what I expect from ancient combat. Might take a lot of at least what I call "low level modding" to be playable imho. Slow down movement and fighting pace, get rid of laser gun flaming arrows, fiery balls and extremely stupid unit super powers at first. Et cetera. I preordered, so I'm eager to see how it really will play out.
The queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.
(perhaps from an English Traditional, about 1700 AD)
Drum, Kinder, seid lustig und allesamt bereit:
Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner! Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!
(later chorus -containing a wrong regimental name for the Bayreuth-Dragoner (DR Nr. 5) - of the "Hohenfriedberger Marsch", reminiscense of a battle in 1745 AD, to the music perhaps of an earlier cuirassier march)
I expected better ramming animations. Something more "gradual". It seems that ships have one "disintegration" animation that fires when the hit is strong enough, no matter where the ship was hit. Before that, you won't even see a dent. At least it doesn't look like it.
It's also funny how everything seems to be too fast in TW Vanilla games. I don't expect battles lasting hours, but part of the fun is watching the units fight and doing some actual tactical manoeuvres. Time compression is always there if one needs it. Unfortunately, it's not possible to slow things down without modding, so yeah, "low level modding" will be a must to make the game playable for me as well.
Last edited by Cybvep; 08-17-2013 at 13:48.
I noticed to my dismay that they replaced 'authority' with 'gravitas' - while it should obviously be dignitas (or auctoritas) if they would be somewhat serious. The same with using 'basilica' when denoting an 'aedes'. Sigh. It seems to me you have very little 'gravitas' when overly using the word 'gravitas', but new cool buzzwords can't be helped probably.
Last edited by Ailfertes; 08-30-2013 at 13:43.
The two main things that have me concerned the most are the extremely fast pace of the battles, I watched a multiplayer match between two of the team, one attacking a town, the other defending and even though one of them made a bad choice in units, the whole affair was over in 5 minutes, the whole thing appeared to be a click fest, units running around everywhere, didn't see a single unit march, no cohesion what so ever.
The other is the interface, it seems to have been dumbed down for a neanderthal to use, the unit cards are disgraceful, a health bar for the unit numbers, huge pylons for banners, huge eyeballs on top of these to tell you that they cannot be seen, when they should not know if they are seen, brown puffs when a unit takes fire.
I just hope they have some options in there to switch some of this crap off, they move some of the unit card symbols like "hidden" to the action screen so you spend more time watching the action, then they go ahead and give all the units buff buttons, dragging you back to the units cards anyway.
They have always made a good base game, but I've always turned to mods, I suppose that's why they call it vanilla, it falls to other people to give it some flavor.
Gameplay wise: EB2
Authenticity wise: EB2
Bang for buck: EB2
Aesthetics: EB2
Hoping people will play EB2 online...
Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM
Bookmarks