returning to the shadows.....
looking at the vote tally, I think it is clear where the scums actually are.
Let's see.Tally (I hope):
6 Edse: Elite Ferret, Alsark, issaikhaan, Ironside, Visorslash, johnhughtom
2 Xenoneb: White_eyes:D, Chaotix
2 Ironside: ATPG, edse
5 No Vote: Captain Blackadder, Autolycus, Memnon, Xenoneb, Robbiecon
Scums: Ironside (duh) Elite Ferret (next most likely), Visorslash (next most likely) khaan (we'll see)
Folks I feel weren't working with Ironside: Alsark (due to their conversations and difference of opinion in the QT, now that I think about it) Xenoneb (the other proposed lynchee for today) and a smattering of folks who didn't bother to vote.
What's fun about this is I feel the scums are very interested in the game, and voting, and commenting on the game.
Meanwhile, certain townies are lost and confused. Most of the no-voters are townie. A very large portion of the voters will have been scum today.
Town cannot win at this rate unless the quiet townies wake up and assist. This is going to be one-sided from here on out unless you folks participate.
Further, if my wand of suspicion is pointed at you, the only thing that will reverse my opinion at this point, is assisting in the destruction of the other names in red/maroon. Those are my top suspects, and even if you're wrongly suspected, you can still help achieve a town win by pointing your magic at the others. Potentially, ending the game before it becomes necessary to suspect you at all.
________________________
I could use some assistance. Who could be clear as being the cult leader?
Myself due to masonry, Ironside due to headmastery, khaan due to headmastery (not that at least one of them isn't scum). Who else was a starting member of a college?
Killing off the recruits is all well and good, but I need to deduce who is the head of the snake so that it can be cut off.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Considering I attempted to have Elite Ferret killed earlier in the game, I should get a free pass.
Don't bother, I'm not controlling the guild item and won't protect myself either. I hoped to prove it by observing the lack of corruption in an attack and actually doing something useful. Still plans to. That's why I'm still waiting on an answer 'Khaan.
I think our attack on Autolycus proves lack of corruption. It's 5+4+2+1= 12 unmigated damage done. I'm not sure of how it stacks, but ATPG:s corruption of 2 (how did you get that second point btw?) should be the highest value. I think only the highest value counts.
I'll order grand nuke. Neither me nor ATPG shall survive tomorrow. 3 dead, my guild crippled, but at least this buissness will be over in 1 round. Congratulations, mr scan disrupter.
Earth, take out ATPG.
Water take out me.
You can swap if you want. But earth has more firepower I think.
Elite Ferret attack ATPG.
Alsark attack me.
ATPG has claimed to attack me, so I'll be needing less damage to be taken out.
My stats:
XP 3 HP 12/12 CS 1 Fire 1, 3 Earth 0, 3 Water 1, 2 Air 5, 2
ATPG:s by claim in thread:
XP: 5 HP: 11/13 CS: 2
Fire: 1, 2; Earth: 0, 2; Water: 0, 2; Air: 2, 2.
hp should be 12 and air 4 now I think, based on regeneration and recommended xp spending.
If a scum faction recruits me tonight for the lols, I'll be petty, very, very petty. For a very, very long time. Enjoy.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
I was suspicious of him then yes, but I still didn't think he would be so brazen as to fake an investigation.
So are you saying that if you were the college head, and innocent, you would have said that Alsark should attack Khaan? This is the most absurd scum evidence I have ever seen. Khaan may well be mafia, but Ironside denying this attack in no way proves it.
Tonight I will attack ATPG. If he flips innocent I will vote for Ironside tomorrow. One of the two has surely got to be guilty, I still feel it is more likely to be ATPG so I would prefer to remove him first. Either way the guilty one will get a night action off tonight, either way the guilty one will be dead by the next night.
Edit: good to see my college head has the same plan for me.
I have a very bad feeling about this though. I'm starting to think you might both be innocent...
Last edited by Ferret; 12-16-2012 at 00:41.
I'm loving Ironside posting his stats and saying well, if ATPG is attacking me, you'll need fewer people.
LUL.
And Elite Ferret attacking me, I didn't see that coming at all.
I love the promises to vote for Ironside after I flip townie. I also love Ironside saying how he'll be mad if someone converts him to scum tonight.
Foreshadowing much?
Town's going to lose this game but man, oh man, has this round been entertaining and quite telling.
EF is scummier than Visorslash atm.
I recommend that NOBODY follows Ironside's suggested course of action. Decide for yourselves who to attack. Asking the college of water to take care of himself is so very scummy.
Attack me with everything you've got. I'm not scared. But man, these guys certainly feel scared to me.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Honestly? I don't care who attacks who. What I do care that both of us ends up dead to end this. That'll require coordination.
Had I recommended the opposite, you'd also taunt. I'm in cohorts with 'khaan as well, remember. And I would've sent my most loyal guildie to attack myself.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Yeah it would probably be best to sort out coordinated attacks in the thread. If we jus tlet everyone do their own thing then it could easily end up with no one dying and us wasting the night phase. Don't forget about the power of haste, that can make both of you pretty much immune to infinite individual attacks but wouldn't be able to stop a coordinated attack from a group of four or so.
I'm not sure what I believe anymore. In any case, at the time I had no reason to distrust the scan so I was all for your lynch. It was wrong and I apologise
Last edited by Ferret; 12-16-2012 at 01:03.
Well, he's dead, so it's....
You're doubling down on wrong, by attacking me. As such, I can't accept your apology and I most sincerely want you to suffer edse's fate.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 12-16-2012 at 01:23.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
It's never too late to apologise!
To be honest, I think we're all wrong. Everything about this whole fiasco feels wrong.
Edit: Why? I feel as though it's just as likely that the mafia have an item that marks a player as utterly corrupted for the next investigation on them as it is for them to have an item that inteferes with the one off use of another item, which wasn't introduced until a fair way into the game. It's by no means a certainty that either of you are guilty, it's just very likely.
And I am totally not scum, you'll find out when I die, as I surely will soon.
Last edited by Ferret; 12-16-2012 at 01:27.
I agree that EF is very scummy. Ironside+'khaan+EF seems like a sensible FOS squad to me. However, this is all pointless unless Ironside is scum. In order for all this theorizing to work, Ironside has to flip as scum. If he flips as innocent then it all falls apart. So, not much point in worrying about anything other than Ironside at the moment.
I also feel like the town may be boned at this point. This game started with 26 people and we've already killed 4 scum but haven't even touched one of the mafia factions. It's likely the other faction has at least 3, likely 4 of its own. That gives us a total of 8 scum in a 26 player game. which is just under 25% of the players. That's a massive number of scum and very difficult to defeat even without town factions fighting on top of it. If those numbers are correct, we're also facing a situation where of the remaining active players, 30-40% are scum. Unless I'm way off on the strength of the other mafia faction or we get super lucky, I think it's only a question of time before they just kill us all.
Last edited by TinCow; 12-16-2012 at 02:07.
I'm a bit more optimistic.
One of the scum factions is crippled, and the other, I feel, is about to fall like dominoes due to how they've been publicly behaving in concert.
The only, I repeat, only problem is town's passivity. I think we've got scums by the balls, and twisting nice and tight. All I need is a few good wizards.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Does Ironside have the Air artifact?
Because if he does that is going to seriously hamper all of your ability to kill him. Likewise if it somehow wound up on ATPG.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom
I have the air artefact.
Even without it, using haste (as both Ironside and ATPG are able to do) would raise Ironside's DVs up to 5 for fire and earth and 4 for water and air and all of ATPG's DVs up to 4. This would pretty much nullify all but the strongest individual attacks, which is why I suggested we organise some coordinated attacks to make sure we get the job done.
Cute how EF ended up with it, isn't it?
Thaaaaaats not gooood....
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
You have a wand?
This. Do this next time.
My 'mason buddy' ain't no scum. If he were he'd've corrupted me, he knows how much I love it.
Unfortunately, it is too late for this. Now, my headmaster, you can post here without being bound by your body.
…
What is this I don't even.
good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013
Yeah, I'm confused as well. Guys, we should attack Ironside first. This splitting of the attacks will probably just let both of them survive. And that would be the worst outcome.
SO: Don't listen to Pizza, just kill Ironside. It's less of a gamble.
But there ARE smilies on this forum! They are just well hidden. Hence the couch.Why don't you have a bunch of quotes by famous and not-so-famous people?"There is no need to link Socialism to Evil, I live in Europe and have Free Speech." - strijder20 (lolwut?)
"This thread is a either testament to the mods not giving a crap about us or their ability to be amused by our antics." - DoubleA (On this thread)
Oh and thanks for killing the water head, you guys are great. I'd give you some of my famous Chilli Con Carne but I can't because I'm dead. And the Necromancy department is REALLY stretched right now.
But there ARE smilies on this forum! They are just well hidden. Hence the couch.Why don't you have a bunch of quotes by famous and not-so-famous people?"There is no need to link Socialism to Evil, I live in Europe and have Free Speech." - strijder20 (lolwut?)
"This thread is a either testament to the mods not giving a crap about us or their ability to be amused by our antics." - DoubleA (On this thread)
Errrr yeah that's what I meant, but I immediately assumed the big bad pizza man would absolutely have to die as well, just to persuade anyone to kill Ironside.
If you guys actually want to be awesome like me, you could just kill the bad guys and leave the good guys alive.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
I can't haste. Original headmasters are too old to remember how to use the wielders abillity appearently. 'Khaan can confirm. And the dead ones can moan about it, if I'm lying.
One nuke each+ vigs are enough for both. ATPG will loose 4-5 hp from EF:s attack, while I'll lose 3-4 from ATPG (his corruption score is higher than mine) and probably 3 from Alsark (if he shows up). Both down below 10 health, so vigable by a 3 man team with 4 AV each.
I'll be formulate exactly why I'll be demanding an apology when this is over ATPG. I've said it before, but not in this condensed form.
Let say I'm into the plan to frame edse and make scans look failable. That's clever true.
Now when edse falls over innocent, what happens next? Innocent ATPG will suspect something, since it's low odds of it being a random framing (and I've already pointed it out earlier aka being aware of the situation) and look how many people knowing about the scan. Behold, by some odd action (since I usually posted all night actions in the main guild topic), I've only posted that in the wielder qt, where only me and ATPG is alive. After edse flips he'll accuse me. By some reason I'll expect that to fail, normal procedure will be done (aka lynch ATPG). When he flips innocent, look who's the next one to accuse. Ironside.
Yes, you have expected me to be that freaking stupid!!
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
I'd like to point out that's two forced mislynches at the endgame.
Hardly stupid, especially since you're not starting scum but a recruit, so I don't see your point in the slightest.
Scum would never lie to force two mislynches in exchange for a recruit! That's just not done in mafia.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Also, if you're innocent, then the scums were going to win this anyway regardless of what I did.
I'll die and flip innocent soon enough.
If I never suspected you today Ironside, what would have happened?
Edse would have been lynched without controversy, and then I would have died tonight. That would have led to myself or others suspecting you have meddled with the scan. The same people would have died, in the same order.
So, I'll apologize for being wrong if I'm wrong, but I was correct that the investigation was spoofed and I tried to stop that lynch. If it's not you then there really wasn't anything that could be done in this situation that is in any way logical, rational, or makes sense. Other than using random.org to select our lynch targets, I don't know what other conclusions could have been drawn in this situation.
So I won't apologize for suspecting the scan has been spoofed, and I won't apologize for the fact that nobody besides you or me (and not me, since I'm town) could have knowingly spoofed that scan. That's circumstance working against us that it was random, at that point.
Basically, I drew the only conclusion anyone would have drawn here. Just like folks would draw the conclusion that I was guilty after the scan comes back as incorrect, even though that's a wrong conclusion.
AND my conclusion was at least one better than usual, because if folks had listened to me, they would have avoided the edse mislynch. So I was actually better than would be expected here.
Apologies in advance if you're innocent, but guess what, I am. And there was no other conclusion to draw here. We lost either way if you're innocent, because I am. And we all would have died as a result of this anyway due to the scan being spoofed and me being blamed for it, then likely you.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 12-16-2012 at 10:43.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
The exact same argument can be applied to you, except you would have more to gain. If you are scum then two college heads will be dead before you are found out. If Ironside is scum then only edse would have been killed. If what you say is true then surely Ironside would have been pressing for you to be killed much, much harder. He would have come straight out with it, not waited until you began stirring a revolt against him. He had been pretty successful at lying low so far, why would he throw all that away just to kill edse? If he was mafia he could have done that just as easily in the night with no risk. You, on the other hand, have far less to lose from all this, which is why I think you are more likely to be mafia.
There are still three possibilities:
1. Ironside is mafia. This possibility assumes the existence of an item that can interfere with the lens. So Jarema would have had to come up with such an item, give it to the mafia even though it would be useless to them until a fair way through the game and they would only be able to use it later if they knew exactly when and on who the lens was being used. I find this unlikely, but I suppose a possibility.
2. ATPG is mafia. ATPG could have faked the results, knowing people would still trust them and lynch edse even when he backed down to try and make himself look innocent. He would then go on to argue how it was much more likely that Ironside was the mafia. If he was townie this would be the logical thing to do. If he was mafia this would be the logical thing to do. However the force with which he has argued for this and the way in which he claimed the edse scan was wrong with such certainty make me feel he is more likely to be mafia. Unlike options 1 and 3, this option relies purely on the ingenuity of ATPG, not any possible complex game mechanics.
3. Neither Ironside nor ATPG is mafia. This could be true if the mafia have some way to label players as corrupted for investigative purposes. I don't think this is much more unbelievable than option 1. If this is the case, this fiasco will have crippled the town.
I feel like option 2 is the most likely to be correct, which is why I want ATPG to die first, potentially saving an innocent head of college. The only way the town can come out of this in a positive situation is if we kill the guilty one first. If I was mafia along with Ironside it would be stupid of me to argue this strongly, because all I am doing is linking the two of us together and seemingly confirming ATPG's suspicions. If I was mafia it would be much better to sit back and hope Ironside can take some people down with him. But I am not, I am town, I believe Ironside is likely to be town so I would prefer ATPG to be killed.
If Ironside does die tonight and flips guilty then I will accept the lynch that will surely come for me. I may even vote for myself. In the mean time I urge some of you to attack ATPG. There is no evidence against Ironside other than ATPG's word. I can't understand why he seems to be the preferred target.
I notice the earthlings have remained quiet, where do the geodudes stand on all of this Khaan?
Just so you all know, the Water College is not engaging in any vig-killing tonight. I tried and tried but one member wants to leave it to the lynching's and will not budge.
This is a triple victory for the scum....and I can't do anything about it.
Well isn't that special.
I don't think the mafia will refrain from killing, and given how few townies are voting, you can tell your friends in the water college that they aren't worth my time.
I'm sorry I tried to do anything for this town.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Lock him down. Make him do something that you can confirm his actions by. Attack with a weak element that won't hurt much if it succeeds. That's why Alsark was ordered to attack ATPG yesterday. To confirm his strength and to make sure that he couldn't do anything else. I've been doing versions of this since very early.
The main scums are active by night. So your "mister lynch" is given a free night action and a safe lynch in the deal. Why? no idea, but that's exactly what a scum would want.
I get it you belive ATPG over me. But the question is, what's to lose by following this? Nothing, it even gives the xp like studying.
Last edited by Ironside; 12-16-2012 at 14:18.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
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