Concerning Dyslexia

[HoreTore]

Kadagar's thread("is it ok to forswear family and friends for political beliefs") derailed into a discussion of dyslexia. I find such a discussion quite interesting, so instead of continuing it on page 3 of a thread with a different subject, I'm starting this thread.

So, for those who haven't read it, here's a short summary:

Dyslexia means that you're too dumb to read and/or write. Reading and writing is a big field, however, so it varies from person to person.

And that's not a figure of speech by the way, it's the definition of dyslexia.

Now, dyslexia has gained a large social acceptance. I find that acceptance very puzzling. Can someone here explain to me why it's a-okay to publicly state that you're too dumb to write a proper sentence, or even a word?

[The Stranger]

do you accept people with down syndrome?

[HoreTore]

Ah, thread reopened. 104 views, some of you are bound to have an opinion. Fire away!

do you accept people with down syndrome?

Would you care to explain why you believe that comparison is meaningful and/or valid?

[Major Robert Dump]

The whole premise of this thread is offensive and off-putting. I struggled with dyslexia for years and it affected my quality of life, my family and my opportunities. Finally, the Doctors told me I would never look like a model and that if I didn't eat something I would die.

And I haven't stopped eating since.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I know right? Why do we accept such idiots in our society. Obviously we must either make them feel ashamed for what they were born into or just remove them entirely.

I just can't stand people who don't have the same natural abilities I do. If you lost the genetic lottery, I'm sorry but nature says you are a lesser being.

[Beskar]

http://www.dyslexia.com/famous.htm
http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-...dyslexics.html

I always thought the Celebrity List of people with Dyslexia was interesting. There is always a social stigma associated with people with Dyslexia as if they cannot produce anything of value for society and in the contrary, it seems some of the greatest people of our times were actually dyslexics. For what they make up in lack of literary skill is attributed elsewhere, for example a blind person has heightened senses of hearing and touch. Though oddly enough, literary style of playwriting is actually better suited for people with dyslexia as they are more natural at doing it.

Is it more of a case that language and communication is constructed in an inefficient manner?

[Kralizec]

I know right? Why do we accept such idiots in our society. Obviously we must either make them feel ashamed for what they were born into or just remove them entirely.

I just can't stand people who don't have the same natural abilities I do. If you lost the genetic lottery, I'm sorry but nature says you are a lesser being.

Precisely. People with dyslexia need to come to terms with their disability and accept that, at best, they're only suitable for menial labour. This is not elitist or bigoted; I never said that being a ditch digger is lesser work than being a doctor or a lawyer, or any educated profession for that matter. Some jobs are just rewarded with more respect from society, better wages and better labour terms overall.

Trying to get dyslexics to overcome their disadvantages and giving them formal education is a waste of recources, and simply saddles society with a lot dead weight.

If they could have as few children as possible, that would be swell too.

[The Stranger]

Ah, thread reopened. 104 views, some of you are bound to have an opinion. Fire away!



Would you care to explain why you believe that comparison is meaningful and/or valid?

yes does it matter if you are too stupid to do anything or just too stupid to read and write?

[HoreTore]

yes does it matter if you are too stupid to do anything or just too stupid to read and write?

I have no idea what you mean, sorry.

Anyway, back to ze thread.

The opening post was offensive, that was the point. The question is, why is it offensive?

This thread was reported to the mods, locked, etc. Apparently calling people dumb because they can't read or write is a nono. A while ago, there was a thread about how people who don't understand politics should be treated as second-class citizen and have their voting rights removed. No reporting was done in that case as far as I know.

That situation is exactly the same as this one. But oh noes, you say, those who can't read or write have dyslexia! It's a condition, they can't help it! The fact is that it's the same, with one exception: those who can't read or write get a fancy-sounding name for their inability, and gain social acceptance for who they are. Those who don't understand politics are called dumb and people want to take away their voting rights.

Dyslexia is not a disease. It's not a medical condition. It's not contagious, and it's not something you can cure. In layman's terms, it's called "being dumb". In technical terms, it's called "(severe) problems with writing". Imagine if I had written the OP about statistics, for example. Would anyone have reported me then? I think not. Yet more people struggle with statistics than writing, and calling them "dumb" is perfectly acceptable in society.

Caravel is a lucky man. Few people with specific math difficulties get much help. It's much more common for those who struggle with maths to feel "dumb" and end up thinking they're failures.

I should be happy at the social acceptance people who struggle with writing are getting. But I just can't enjoy that when I see people who have the exact same struggle in other fields get harassed on a daily basis. And that's the point of this thread.



And Frags, no. Just no. Struggling with writing is not helpful in understanding mathematics. Your ears remain the same if you lose your sight, they do not grow super-awesome over night. Blind people simply have to rely more on their hearing.

[Montmorency]

I should be happy at the social acceptance people who struggle with writing are getting. But I just can't enjoy that when I see people who have the exact same struggle in other fields get harassed on a daily basis. And that's the point of this thread.

Oh. I figured your point was something Carlin-esque.

Your ears remain the same if you lose your sight, they do not grow super-awesome over night. Blind people simply have to rely more on their hearing.

Neural plasticity. In blind individuals, brain regions concerned with sight shrink - while other regions are growing at their expense. If you lose a hand, the adjacent areas (wrist and neck?) in the somatic map grow, increasing sensitivity there. That's not to say dyslexia necessarily entails a similar process, though.

I should be happy at the social acceptance people who struggle with writing are getting. But I just can't enjoy that when I see people who have the exact same struggle in other fields get harassed on a daily basis. And that's the point of this thread.

Dyslexia is not a disease. It's not a medical condition.

It's a disability.

And as you mentioned in the other thread:

Dysl

Dyslexia is indeed only applicable to those who perform average or above in other subjects. The same goes for dyscalculi, the math equivalent. That doesn't mean we don't have a way to "determine dyslexia" in below-average students, however. The short version:

If you're crap at reading, but do well on other stuff, you have dyslexia.
If you're crap at reading and a bunch of other stuff, we have a different term for your situation.

"Just being dumb" is a primitive and limited way of looking at things, so if you're still on your rhetorical plank - I agree that it should be abandoned. Whenever I think of someone as "dumb" or "stupid", I wonder to myself, 'Boy didn't that feel good' and reassess the situation.

[Husar]

And Frags, no. Just no. Struggling with writing is not helpful in understanding mathematics. Your ears remain the same if you lose your sight, they do not grow super-awesome over night. Blind people simply have to rely more on their hearing.

That's partly correct, but you forgot to mention that the brain adapts and uses regions that cannot be used anymore to improve other areas. For example the area responsible for sight may change over time and help with the interpretation and filtering of sounds. That does not excuse being too dumb to see, of course.

As for politics, it depends. Not everything is birth-related and even some things that are are the fault of the parents who smoked for example even though they knew better. Unless we're going to say there is no free will and the universe is 100% predictable and pre-determined.

[The Stranger]

I have no idea what you mean, sorry.

you ask, why should we accept that certain people lack the cognitive abilities to perform certain tasks. I ask you, do you accept people with down syndrome? Because clearly they lack the cognitive abilities to perform certain tasks as well. And the tasks they cant perform seem fundamentally more important to me than those dyslexic people cant perform.

[caravel]

Dyslexia is not a disease. It's not a medical condition. It's not contagious, and it's not something you can cure. In layman's terms, it's called "being dumb". In technical terms, it's called "(severe) problems with writing". Imagine if I had written the OP about statistics, for example. Would anyone have reported me then? I think not. Yet more people struggle with statistics than writing, and calling them "dumb" is perfectly acceptable in society.

On the off chance that you're not simply playing devil's advocate there and actually believe that, STFW.