...now I don't have to reply to Axalon about missing the point).
I'm missing the point?
From where I am standing, you guys lost the point long time ago, ever since post 7-8 or there about. This thread isn't about whorehouses, inns, lepers, the UN, historicity or some damn nominal tweaking of buildings, this and that... Its about ships, and modding of ships, as outlined by Gil - that is the point here as that is the actual topic, is it not? That is what you guys should be discussing and posting on here as that is what this thread is actually about, right?
If I am missing the point, I sure am not alone, now am I?
Ships are not some agent- or army-clones, they are a separate class of pieces in the game and distinguished as such in the MTW-engine. I get that the agent-class were dragged in here with the best intentions due to some similarities to ships, but I think we be better off to just disregard agents and armies altogether and just look directly on the ships themselves. "Ships in their own right", as it will probably generate less confusion here. Besides, whatever similarities ships do have with other pieces are irrelevant anyhow as their (the ships) functions are unique anyway in the game. They do serve "the same team", but they do that in their own special way as dictated by their functions. In modding terms, ships has also little to do with the other pieces, all over again, and so we have little reason to bother with that on that note as well. Function is probably more then anything is what dictates what is actually possible to mod on ships. Why make things more strange then it has to be?
Originally Posted by drone
Some of the ships have era/faction settings for mercenary status in the unit prod file, I don't build inns so I can't say I've ever seen a ship on offer though.
Ships, do not have any mercenary status or related active settings in the unit prod file, if they had, they would have been marked with a "YES"-entry in column 71 in the VI-version of the file. You have simply mixed that up - it happens. Mercenary-stuff is very probably linked exclusively to army-units on the engine anyways - the files suggest it. The engine don't seem to have any functions for ships that actually connect them with the mercenary-concept at any level. Mercenary-stuff are a strictly land-based concept in the CA-designs. Reserved for army-units/pieces it seems, as they are the only "piece-class" that is somehow actively linked to the mercenary-concept.
For all we know some ships "in our service" might be privateers anyways, it is a parameter left out in the engine. It can obviously not reflect any such aspect, as there is no functional distinction for it. Had there been some actual parameters for it, then perhaps... The best one could do, as things are, is to simulate the concept somehow (or parts of it, anyways) by various modding-manouvers - if so desired. Creating an illusion of privateers as an extra element of the game etc. Adding new special "privateer-ships" - maybe low requirements, cheap to "hire"/build, expensive to support and maybe some special related building that unlocks this stuff (or possibly using other triggers) etc. etc.
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Does it mean that they [ships] are unmoddable?
Nope, ships are very moddable, but as they don't function properly in all regards (read: stats and combat circumstances) it might be debatable if it is actually worthwhile to bother much with it. At any rate, the possibilities are (rather) limited - as everything else in the game. We can change stats (about 50%), requirements, costs etc. etc. However adding actual new functions to ships - is not possible. Adding new and/or removing/reducing ships is fully possible. Ships are like any other part/piece in the game somehow limited in capacity and function on what it can actually do within the framework of the game - as dictated by the game-engine (obviously).
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
So modding amounts to introducing new units, new factions and new provinces, does it not?
Is that not a needlessly dumb and hasty assessment? As if there are not more things that can be changed or altered in this game? For starters, Redux, Medmod, BKB Supmod and Age of Warlords suggest otherwise. And they are all very different from each other, all over, and they are clearly different from raw MTW as well. I would argue that it is more then fair to say that they have all pioneered MTW-modding in different ways well beyond the limitations of "introducing new units, new factions and new provinces". Obviously, there are a bunch of non-medieval themed stuff as well, like Napoleonic TW, Hellenic TW, Samurai Warlords, Pike & Musket and Hyborian Age etc. Same thing goes for them and plenty of pioneering work to be found here as well. By all means download any or all and check that first hand - they are all listed somehow in the MTW mod-index...
There are tons and tons of things in MTW that can be changed and altered beyond what you are suggesting there... MTW can be changed into a very different game, despite all limitations, using its engine and the framework it provides (even more so in VI/V.2.01)... Just like a car can be transformed into a very different car, while still true to the concept of "car" on general terms. It is basically a question of know-how, effort and various resources (time, talent, tools, material etc. etc.).
Well, this is how I understand these things anyhow...
Last edited by Axalon; 12-16-2012 at 08:39.
Objection sustained. If drone moves his sphere of interest elsewhere who would do the peacemaking at this forum? Unless Axalon steps in to moderate. Perhaps his new position would teach him to be more tolerant and less quick to anger and resentment.
Is that not a needlessly dumb and hasty assessment? As if there are not more things that can be changed or altered in this game?
It seems to me dumb and hasty to assess my assumption in those terms. What I meant was to clarify whether modding was all about ADDING new stuff or ability to CHANGE some basic principles of the game. Being no modder still less a mod consumer I am unaware of such things. But your explanation seems to imply that there are some things that cannot be altered, ship functions and properties being one of them. That is what I basically wondered about.
Ships can be modded in that new ships with different stats, building cost, upkeep and graphics to the existing ones can be created, but ship behaviour cannot be modded.
Mercenary ships are not possible, as with mercenary agents. If you set agents or ships as mercenary units in the unit prod file, you will be able to recruit them at some point, but the resulting unit will appear as part of an army stack on land.
Last edited by caravel; 12-21-2012 at 18:08.
Reason: unnecessary crap removed
This thread isn't about whorehouses, inns, lepers, the UN, historicity or some damn nominal tweaking of buildings, this and that... Its about ships, and modding of ships, as outlined by Gil - that is the point here as that is the actual topic, is it not? That is what you guys should be discussing and posting on here as that is what this thread is actually about, right?
Thread topics sometimes tend to veer from the initial direction. I don't mind the ramification as this acquisitiveness of a thread may yield some eye-openers off the topic which I appreciate.
Having been on the receiving end of Caravel's little Yellow and Red cards whilst he was a Moderator ( for no good reason I may add ), I trust Drone has tossed one or two to him now. Per chance he ( Caravel ) is revealing to us why he no longer holds that vaulted position ?
On a different ( unrelated ) note - the UN is useless. I believe it, like the League of Nations before it, should be scraped. And whatever succeeds it should NOT have priviledged members with a Veto. Perhaps then things might get sorted.
If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur