Morrowind - after Oblivion and Skyrim?

[Mongoose]

Okay, so I started with Oblivion, and thought it was okay, but not great. I liked the open world but found the setting and most of the quests bland. Then I got Skyrim, which I liked playing a lot better because I loved the game world and found the quests engaging (well there are still a lot of bland ones, but on average it's a massive improvement from Oblivion). Varied dungeons that weren't just really obvious copies was nice, and the better graphics helped too.

From what I've heard, Morrowind also has a cool setting, but I've also heard it has bad controls and an even worse combat system than Oblivion and Skyrim. And of course it's about a decade old, so the visual aspect is pretty dated; I value gameplay over graphics, but in an exploration game, graphics do count.

The Org usually has pretty good taste and judgement, I find, and I know there are some ES people on here, so -EDIT: this got cut-off and should read: I was wondering - has anyone else played Skyrim, and then tried Morrowind, or looked at Morrowind again after the later games? If so, was it fun or were there issues that were hard to get past?

[Cornelius]

Hi, I agree with you 100%. Oblivion was rather average. Skyrim rocks balls due to a great storyline and you get to fight dragons! I started off on Morrowind back when the original Xbox was still riding high. It utterly rocked my world. I had never experienced a game that gave you such a vast world to explore and so much freedom to do it with. I dont want to give away too much as just thinking back about discovering parts of the story gives me goosebumps. Your choices mattered.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Like having to choose between the thieves and fighters guild.

I spent months playing that game. Ruining 2 controllers with a smile. It might not match up to the later games with regards to graphics but it still is a beautiful world with wonderfully designed settlements, towns and cities. A legion of characters and enemies, many of who will be familiar to you after playing the sequels. After 3 months of playing the original Morrowind I saw the Collector's Edition with the Blood Moon (or something like that) and another (can't remember) expansion which just plugged-in to the main game seamlesly. (for me anyway) Like any game there were a couple of bugs and annoying bits but nothing that stood out (except running around with tons of repair hammers). Many more spells and potions (you could fly damnit!) Melee moves (granted hack slash and thrust but still). Have I raved about the storyline? Anyway *RAVE *RAVE *RAVE. Morrowind is the grand daddy of the modern RPG. Do youself a favour and play it, play it all. I hope my ramblings have done the game justice and swayed you to play it and love it as much as I did. In fact, I might just start again...

[Fragony]

Oblivion doesn't NEARLY has such an interested setting as Morrowind, Morrowind has an unmatched sense of wonder. With a few mods it supposedly looks just as good as Skyrim.

[Cornelius]

If you do decide to acquire Morrowind, check out this link http://morrowind2009.wordpress.com/

[Beskar]

I personally feel Morrowind was a product of its time, but if you put it up against Skyrim, it completely falls short. The controls and graphics will impact hard, the lack of dynamic characters is another as towns are populated by statues. I cannot honestly play Morrowind now and get into it, the whole impact is too jarring. A lot of praise is nostalgia, it is down to whether or not you can sit yourself through an old game and whether or not it would bother you.

[TinCow]

Morrowind may well be difficult after Skyrim. It is a superb game, but it has major flaws. More flaws than Skyrim, I believe, and I think that playing it after Skyrim will have an impact. It's not the graphics, but more so the character system. Skyrim did some very clever things to the ES system that really made the game very fun, such as flat leveling and perks. Morrowind utilizes an exceptionally annoying leveling system that made it difficult to develop a character if you chose your starting skills 'poorly.' In fact, it was so counter-intuitive that it was often better to pick starting skills as those you wouldn't be using. The magic system is also very different. While I preferred Morrowind's spell system, the lack of regenerating mana (except on sleep) was crippling for a starting character and pretty much prevented someone from playing as a pure mage. At the same time, while Morrowind had far more skills, many were useless and uninspiring. Some were useless in Skyrim as well, but Skyrim also added Smithing, which was so well done that it would be sorely missed going back.

That said, Morrowind's story and 'world' are superb, and many will still say they're better even than Skyrim's. The use of text instead of just voice acting means that there is a lot more depth to the stories and a lot more information about the world. If you don't mind a lot of text, Morrowind would be great, but if you don't like it or would just skip over it then that aspect wouldn't be a bonus for you.

I'd say give it a try (heavily modded to improve the graphics and remove some of the character annoyances) and see if you like it. If you can't stand it after a few hours, just drop it.

[johnhughthom]

I wouldn't in any way describe the lack of mana regeneration as crippling, I played many a pure mage through Morrowind, and don't remember finding the lack of regeneration a hindrance. Making sure you had a steady supply of potions was not overly difficult, and it gave you more incentive to get involved in alchemy. Compared to starting as a mage in Baldur's Gate, Morrowind was a cinch.

I hate mana regeneration almost as much as health regenaration, modern gamers suck for both to be standard now.

[Beskar]

I hate mana regeneration almost as much as health regenaration, modern gamers suck for both to be standard now.

I hate Master mode, or whatever the highest is on Skyrim. I started a game with it as it isn't "hard" it is just frustrating, as you have to be incredibly gamey to stay alive (jumping around, going into crouches, using terrain, particularly buggy terrain to stay alive), and the enemies are pin cushions... no way some one with no armour on can survive 20-30 arrows to the face.

I do like elements of realism in that respect. As for the food and drink thing, I do believe there is a mod where food gives hp and drink gives mana, and they are the only ways outside of potions and sleeping. I don't find that bad.

[rajpoot]

Was posting this yesterday when system crashed.
You should check out Morroblivion, and Skywind. The former is pretty well developed by now, it's basically Morrowind running with Oblivion graphics.

Linky

[Fragony]

I personally feel Morrowind was a product of its time, but if you put it up against Skyrim, it completely falls short. The controls and graphics will impact hard, the lack of dynamic characters is another as towns are populated by statues. I cannot honestly play Morrowind now and get into it, the whole impact is too jarring. A lot of praise is nostalgia, it is down to whether or not you can sit yourself through an old game and whether or not it would bother you.

Modders supposedly fixed all that. Skyrim is absolutely a better game in many ways, but Morrowind just has a more interesting setting, really feels like a world with thousands of years of history.

[Beskar]

Rajpoot certainly just posted something very interesting.

Something to definitely keep a watch on.

[spankythehippo]

Skyrim was basically an improvement to both the former games, as expected. Going back to old games is mainly a nostalgia thing with most people. Generally, the gameplay dynamics tend to get better the newer the game.

In Skyrim, I chose Dark Elf since I consider it to be the best all rounder. I am predominantly a battle mage. I use magic a lot. Going back to Morrowind and playing as a Dark Elf, I barely used magic, since it drained me of my mana. This impacted heavily of my enjoyment of the game. I also highly enjoy good character customisation, which Morrowind lacks at. I remember playing Morrowind all those years ago and thinking it was fantastic. Now, not so much.

[Fragony]

A lack of mana is hardly a problem if you invest some points in alchemy. Morrowind isn't hard, it just doesn't nurse you all that much. Try Demon/dark souls for being compltelely thrown in. I wouldn't call it an 'old' game it is just a bit closer to classic rpg's where nothing is really explained. Fine with that. It's still my favourite of the bunch.

[Kralizec]

Tip for Oblivion players: use the deadly reflex mod, if you aren’t already. It makes melee combat a lot more interesting.

As for Morroblivion, I loved it. Amazing what they had done with it. However a lot of it was still missing when I played it – Solstheim was on the map but almost empty and the Bloodmoon quests weren’t worth playing. Maybe that’s changed, though.

Regular Morrowind: if you can get past the graphics, the biggest issue would be the uninspired and rather boring combat system. Most other issues, like the complicated class system, are relatively minor.

[HopAlongBunny]

I played Oblivion and Skyrim to death.

Each game was a lot of fun, but the destination is always the same: You become an unkillable murder machine and the game gets tedious rather than interesting.

I thought Skyrim might be different with a lev cap over 80, but by lev50 you are unbeatable-w/o exploits.

[rajpoot]

I thought Skyrim might be different with a lev cap over 80, but by lev50 you are unbeatable-w/o exploits.

That is when you start roleplaying as the breechcloth-barbarian to keep things interesting.

[TinCow]

Skyrim is absolutely a better game in many ways, but Morrowind just has a more interesting setting, really feels like a world with thousands of years of history.

I think this is correct. Skyrim pretty much wins on all the gameplay elements, but Vvardenfell is a setting that has yet to be beat. It even feels properly populated to a degree that Oblivion and Skyrim didn't.

[Kralizec]

I personally feel Morrowind was a product of its time, but if you put it up against Skyrim, it completely falls short. The controls and graphics will impact hard, the lack of dynamic characters is another as towns are populated by statues. I cannot honestly play Morrowind now and get into it, the whole impact is too jarring. A lot of praise is nostalgia, it is down to whether or not you can sit yourself through an old game and whether or not it would bother you.

I haven’t played Skyrim so I wouldn’t know about that, but in Oblivion I wasn’t that impressed by the general NPC behavior that was supposed to simulate daily life. The dialogue lines that NPC’s randomly exchange with eachother are inane and extremely repetitive. That shops are only open during certain hours I can tolerate and understand, but what really bugged me was that certain trainers wander off so that it’s extremely hard to find them during “open hours”. That people will sometimes exchange rumours about quests that the player has completed was a nice touch, but merely adds to the feeling that Cyrodil is an extremely small world.

There’s a mod for Morrowind that makes shop close at night, if that’s your thing, and also a mod that adds a lot of generic NPC’s (townspeople, traveling merchants, bounty hunters, etc) which spawn randomly in cities and disappear after a while. It was fittingly called Morrowind Comes Alive, I think.

[Mongoose]

Thanks for the input everyone! I think I'm leaning towards waiting for Skywind to come out. It looks pretty awesome.

I don't know if I'd miss the radiant AI too much. It's so poorly done that I think statue NPCs might hurt immerson less.

Here's an example: I'm not gonna spoil this plotline in Skyrim, in case anyone would mind, so let's just say I was standing outside the gates of a city in Skyrim with a mass of soldiers, ready to storm the city. A general outside was giving a rousing battle speech. He emphasized the bravery of our army, and the justness of our cause. He was getting really into it. He stood just outside the city gate, with his back to it. Directly behind him outside the gate stood a couple on their way to a wedding. They didn't mind the siege much. In fact, they stood a few feet away from the general, and bickered about the trip. It sounded like this:

"This day we will end this strife once and forever!"
[just as loud as the general] "Do we really have to go to this wedding?" asked the Husband.
[starting to shout really loudly] "YOUR BRAVERY WILL CARRY THE DAY AND YOU WILL EARN EVER LASTING VICTORY"
[still talking as loud as the general] "Yes, it's expected of us. Don't be rude" said the wife.
"MANY WILL DIE BUT WE WILL NEVER FORGOT THEIR SACRIFICE AND THEY WILL WIN HONOR"
"I'm not being rude, I just don't see why we have to come all the way out here."

(paraphrasing, forget the exact words).

[Kralizec]

This thread is the perfect excuse to post this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRW6Mcx0pfY

[ReluctantSamurai]

but Morrowind just has a more interesting setting, really feels like a world with thousands of years of history.

This. I remember my first game where I spent so much time panning the camera view at the scenery, that I would often stumble into an ambush before I knew it

Vvardenfell is a setting that has yet to be beat.

Even more so if you add in some of the environmental mods that add music, creatures, and landforms.

Morrowind just seemed easier to get immersed in as a world environment.

[lars573]

I think this is correct. Skyrim pretty much wins on all the gameplay elements, but Vvardenfell is a setting that has yet to be beat. It even feels properly populated to a degree that Oblivion and Skyrim didn't.

That's because starting with Oblivion the scale was cut way down. If you look at a lore map of Tamriel Vvardenfel is about half the size of Cyrodiil. But if you look at the games and square kilometres that the areas cover Cyrodiil is half to a third smaller than Vvardenfel. There is a reason it got nuked by Red mountain other than story potential.

[Vuk]

I will be the lone dissenting voice here and say that I think Morrowind sucks hard. In fact, I literally prefer Oblivion, as sad as that is. Skyrim is far better than either.

[johnhughthom]

You literally prefer Oblivion? Can you figuratively prefer something?

[Fragony]

That's because starting with Oblivion the scale was cut way down. If you look at a lore map of Tamriel Vvardenfel is about half the size of Cyrodiil. But if you look at the games and square kilometres that the areas cover Cyrodiil is half to a third smaller than Vvardenfel. There is a reason it got nuked by Red mountain other than story potential.

My main problem with Oblivion is that it's all to familiar, it's all medieval Europe. In Morrowind you had much more diversity, you felt like exploring instead of travelling. In Oblivion you also start almost directly in the capital completely ruining it's impact. Also no fan of fast travel.

[lars573]

In Arena all of Tamriel has the same architecture as Oblivion. Skyrim, Morrowind, Valenwood all look exactly like Cyrodiil. In Daggerfall High Rock looks a lot like Oblivion. In a lot of ways Morrowind is an odd duck in looks compared to the rest of the series.

I will be the lone dissenting voice here and say that I think Morrowind sucks hard. In fact, I literally prefer Oblivion, as sad as that is. Skyrim is far better than either.

This is about the only thing we'd ever agree on.

[Kralizec]

You're entitled to your opinion of course, no matter how wrong it is

Morrowind did have flaws. But if you think it sucked, then why did you bother with its sequels at all? Skyrim sounds to be quite different in several respects, but Oblivion? As far as skills/leverlling was concerned Oblivion was basically a more streamlined, but dumbed-down version of Morrowind.

Add to that:
- Graphics are better, but the scenery is more generic
- The main quest was okay but not great, and the optional quests fewer in number and generally less interesting (notable exception - the Dark Brotherhood questline, which was pretty cool)
- Melee combat was much improved, but still lacking until Deadly Reflex came out. Plus - no more spears, crossbows or throwing weapons. There are mods that correct that too, with mixed results

To me personally, Oblivion is the archtypical sequel to a good game that added some minor novelties but removed several things which made the previous game great.

[lars573]

Imagine a game that you enjoyed well enough. But had numerous HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE flaws. So huge that you'd broken controllers* over them, or stopped playing the game for weeks at a time. If not for those flaws you'd have loved the game more than any other, and it would have earned an eternal warm place in your heart. Then years later a sequel to said game comes out that solves all of your problems. At the cost of some features that you never used (due to low functionality), and some content you never got to as the game was such a slog to get through.


If you can imagine that, then you can begin to understand why I love Oblivion so much more than Morrowind.







*When I say broken controller I mean broke the screw holes. I have two OG Xbox controllers held together by tape that are still functional.

[TinCow]

...I played Morrowind on a console...

Yeah, I think I understand the problem.

[lars573]

RPG's are unfit to be played on a PC.