My two cents about the achievements of the EB team

[Docus]

Hello everyone, I'm a long time lurker, (very) sporadic poster. I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but here it goes, anyways.

I wanted to say something about what the EB team has achieved and the legacy that Europa Barbarorum is set to leave for future generations. I wonder if you EB players have any idea how well respected and well known this mod is. Just yesterday I was looking at a thread on Reddit about 'historically accurate games'. Europa Barbarorum was mentioned several times as one of the best historical gaming experiences, alongside other great game series such as Europe Universalis and IL2: Sturmovik (a flight sim).

A few months ago I was hanging out with some fellow uni students, who were in the 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' faculty, studying history and classical history as their majors. I brought up the subject of videogames and immediately the conversation turned towards the Europa Barbarorum mod. 3 out of the 5 people there had played it, and all of us saw the mod as a great inspiration. Europa Barbarorum was the spark that set us on the path of becoming interested in Classical Antiquity, the gateway drug that introduced us into the wonderful world of historical research and literature. It's been 6 years since the first time I played it and I still give the ol' campaign a go every couple of months.

When I visited Romania on a road trip, I took a sidetrip to Sarmizegetusa, to visit the ruins of the old Dacian temple complex there. It was wonderful, It was as if I saw the story of Zalmoxis and the Kogaionon right in front of my eyes as living history. And I have Europa Barbarorum to thank for that. This mod has opened my eyes to some beautiful things in this world, things I never would have been passionate about had I not played it.

So there, I'd like to thank the team for having such an influence on my life, however small it may seem to you guys (it feels big for me). Salute!

[Arjos]

Well said, and in my view, that's exactly the whole point of EB ^^

[joshmahurin]

And it's exactly this reason that people need to stop complaining about waiting and asking when when when is it going to come out. Games that have this big of an influence take LOADS of hard work and time to get to that level. People forget this not a professional 100+ team studio. It's a volunteer effort, making a completely free game, and gives something far more immersive, inspiring, and actually moving than anything most people ever get a chance to play. This game does inspire such a large number of people. And it's a mod! So people stop complaining about 2 taking so long and go back to praising how good the first one was and thanking the team for even making a second. They didn't have to. They can cancel the whole thing any day if they want. They are volunteers. You are not entitled to anything from them and you should keep that in mind and humble yourselves.

Sorry for that rant haha too many immature trolls around the forums lately...

[Leon the Batavian]

Docus are you Dutch ? 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' faculty gave that away

IL2 Sturmovik is another great game Indeed.

Anyways everything Docus said. EB is "living history" if we may call it that.

[the tokai]

Docus are you Dutch ? 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' faculty gave that away

Belgian I'd say, I don't think any Dutch universities use the name 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' for their faculties, it's normally either one or the other (or geesteswetenschappen).

And joshmahurin, could you point me towards all of those troll post you seem to have seen? I check these forums on a regular basis and I don't remember seeing any posts complaining about the long wait for quite some time. EB fans tend to be almost nauseatingly civil.

[joshmahurin]

Most are on twcenter probably I check both frequently and tend to not think about which I'm posting on :P

[Cybvep]

I find your post awesome. It's absolutely great to hear about the positive influence of video games, especially in the context of the crap that various experts-in-name-only (people who have little knowledge about video games yet critise them the most from a position of false "authority") say in the media. If I were a member of the EB team, I would be proud of this achievement. When you do sth for free, just because you are interested in sth, it becomes even more important to see that other people think highly of your work.

Also, EB is yet another example of what some fans can do when they are given the tools. That's why moddability is so important in games.

[Docus]

Belgian I'd say, I don't think any Dutch universities use the name 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' for their faculties, it's normally either one or the other (or geesteswetenschappen).

Correct!

That said... I'm secretly hoping to be able to roleplay as the Belgae. Hopefully the Morini or the Menapii will be respresented somewhere in the tribes system. Perhaps most of the "Old Belgians" were wiped out by the Romans and later replaced by the Franks, but I've got the ginger gene, so mayhaps I have a distant Belgae ancestor somewhere :) a man can dream.

[Brennus]

Perhaps most of the "Old Belgians" were wiped out by the Romans and later replaced by the Franks, but I've got the ginger gene, so mayhaps I have a distant Belgae ancestor somewhere :) a man can dream.

It's unlikely that the Romans successfully exterminated any tribes, certainly they appear to have seriously reduced the numbers of Menapii and Eburones. However tribal identities certainly became extinct, but from what we know of Celtic socio-political systems this appears to have been a fairly frequent occurrence. The ginger gene itself is theorised to be the result of interbreeding with Homo sapiens neanderthalensis in the Palaeolithic, preserved Neanderthal hair has been found, among other colours, to be ginger. Its prevalence in northern regions is likely because during the neolithic there was not much of a migration by near eastern farmers into these regions, also reduced sunlight at higher latitudes, ironically, correlates with lighter hair colours.

[helenos aiakides]

I take slight issue with the Neanderthal "ginger" hypothesis for a few reasons.
1. It is unlikely that humans and Neanderthal ever interacted http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...umans-research
2. Having shared DNA is by no means an indication of interbreeding; it could merely be a relic of a recent common ancestor.

[Blxz]

The ginger gene itself is theorised to be the result of interbreeding with Homo sapiens neanderthalensis

Damn dirty gingers into beastiality as well.

[Cyclops]

Speaking of EB team's acheivements, has EB inspired CA to harden up and put more accurate detail in to RTW2? EB has to be a pretty rare case where the mod is better than the vanilla.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate the many beautiful (and wonderfully moddable) engiunes CA has crafted. I think that CA were forced into the well documented shabby shortcuts: they're obviously informed guys and respectful of history but had to make some commercial compromises to get the thing published (eg Pharoanic Ptolies).

Maybe EB has shown a little reality goes a long way, and CA has taken the opportunity to inject more realism on the back of that?

Damn dirty gingers into beastiality as well.

You be quiet or I bang you head with rock, and my sister/wife/red setter too!

[moonburn]

Damn dirty gingers into beastiality as well.

that should explain a few primal responses i seem to get when i see a ginger girl jumping up and down

ofc that that being said i do believe i have a few of those gens in me my dad as red beard when he lets that crap grow

[Blxz]

ofc that that being said i do believe i have a few of those gens in me my dad as red beard when he lets that crap grow

It is fascinating to think of all the little bits of DNA sitting inside us and where it may have come from. Where does our lineage 'start'? So many questions....

[moonburn]

considering some epigenetic remarks as many as 1% of our dna might actually be active

ofc that if you don´t live in a swamp i´m pretty sure that the dna marker that activates the anti yellow fever defenses ain´t that usefull doesn´t mean it might not be in future

or that our fish gens wich we still possess won´t be usefull in the future

in the end of the day all we know is that our dna are hoarders they don´t throw nothing out ... once you´re tainted you´re kids will forever be tainted matters not if the enviroment that surrounds them activates it or not it´s always there ... (ok evil laughter and make some stupid witty remark about antrophogy )

[Ludens]

in the end of the day all we know is that our dna are hoarders they don´t throw nothing out ... once you´re tainted you´re kids will forever be tainted matters not if the enviroment that surrounds them activates it or not it´s always there ... (ok evil laughter and make some stupid witty remark about antrophogy )

Actually, DNA is being thrown out all the time. You only pass on 50% of it to your child, after all. Of course, since most people have more than one child, the other 50% isn't entirely lost. But it doesn't "taint" your descendents for ever. There's a 50% chance it may not "taint" them at all.

"Taint" is the wrong word in any case, but that's another discussion.

By the way, it's true only 1 % of the DNA is transcribed into protein, but that doesn't mean the remaining 99% is useless. It includes structural elements, binding sites, epigenetic regulators, and so on. In fact, new research suggests that most DNA is used. Just not as a template for protein.

[Maeran]

Our lineage starts right at the start of life itself, of course.

With the whole Neanderthal/ginger thing; it is worth bearing in mind that concepts of species (especially closely related species and morphologically defined paleospecies) can get a bit woolly. Sometimes Homo neanderthalensis has been considered to be H. sapiens neanderthalensis and sometimes not, largely depending on who you're talking to.

I'd like to point out that the likely areas where humans and Neanderthals could have interacted have a huge swathe of more southerly sites, including into the middle east.
Yes, Neanderthals had ginger hair, but any hybridisation zone would likely be to the south and probably south east of Europe. Including the fertile crescent where all these good looking dark haired people supposedly came from as they swept Europe with their farming package (guess my hair colour :) )
Not saying it's impossible, but I don't buy it. The relative prevalence of ginger and blonde hair along the northern periphery of Europe, when considered with the presence of these hair colours at lower rates among worldwide populations, corresponds with a local selective advantage for lighter skin tones (better vitamin D production in weaker sunlight). The genes are already among the general population though.

[moonburn]

population adaptation can occur very fast so considering we´re talking 28.000 years = at least 1120 generations if not more we can use 20 years instead of 25 so phisical appearence can tell you very litle about your further back ancestors

from my understanding of epigenetics the gens are activated when they are needed and are sleeping/dorment when we don´t need them and from that point of view we use as litle as 1% unleass if your concept of activated gens includes those which we can consider dependent on others to be activated a bit like the mess that we sometimes find in a few programing lines that tecnically could simply be simplified but they are still there and without it the important programed lines wouldn´t work

as for the 50/50% for everytime we make kids it´s the so called genetic lotery

thus our genetic matrix are hoarders because they keep too much stuff with we could just simplify since today we don´t need it (doesn´t mean we won´t need it in the future if surrounding enviroment changes)
imagine the air becomes heavier with heavy metals and stuff like that and that civilization colapses if we didn´t had the gens to create barriers to protect the lungs our trial and error manouver until we found a new way of protecting ourselfs would take alot of death until we got the right mutation so we could have a new defense (i speak ofc of nose hair ... )

[Ludens]

Like I wrote, it is disputed that 99% of our DNA is inactive. The best you can say is that 99% of our DNA isn't transcribed into protein. I am sceptical of the notion that it contains back-ups of long dormant genes, since these are very prone to mutation*.

(* Or, rather, they are not subject to natural selection, so deleterious mutations accumulate. Natural selection is only affected by current fitness, so only genes that affect fitness in the here and now are selected for or against. Mutations in a dormant gene have no effect, so they are ignored. Unless a gene is used at least occasionally (every couple dozen generations or so), it will do the genetic equivalent of rusting away.)

This is getting rather OT, though. If the OP wishes it, I can move it to a new thread.

[athanaric]

I take slight issue with the Neanderthal "ginger" hypothesis for a few reasons.

So do quite a few others, I've heard.

1. It is unlikely that humans and Neanderthal ever interacted http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...umans-research

Sigh... and what are Neanderthals, if not humans? Gets me every time when people say "humans and Neanderthals".

2. Having shared DNA is by no means an indication of interbreeding; it could merely be a relic of a recent common ancestor.

Or a more recent deelopment.

[helenos aiakides]

Like I wrote, it is disputed that 99% of our DNA is inactive. The best you can say is that 99% of our DNA isn't transcribed into protein. I am sceptical of the notion that it contains back-ups of long dormant genes, since these are very prone to mutation*.

(* Or, rather, they are not subject to natural selection, so deleterious mutations accumulate. Natural selection is only affected by current fitness, so only genes that affect fitness in the here and now are selected for or against. Mutations in a dormant gene have no effect, so they are ignored. Unless a gene is used at least occasionally (every couple dozen generations or so), it will do the genetic equivalent of rusting away.)

This is getting rather OT, though. If the OP wishes it, I can move it to a new thread.

I agree, and I'm impressed by your knowledge of biochemistry.

It is worth noting that when deciding the relationship genetically between animals, it is non-coding DNA (which we can debate about till the cows come home) which is used. This is because there is little or no selective pressure on it, so although highly conserved, they pick up mutations at a greater rate than "coding DNA" This can be used with a suprising degree of accuracy to determine how long ago species diverge etc. Traditional this was done by DNA-DNA hybridisation, but nowadays is done by means of computer software, which is a much more flexible tool. I digress.
I second Ludens' point, but I felt that it was necessary to emphasise that the "rusting away" process is slow
This post was useless, but I'm tired drunk and have already thrashed it out. It's probably a bit OT, and for that I apologise.

[moonburn]

me likeis the last post i do have a great interest in the domestication process

particulary the highly contested theoryn that we humans domesticated the most dangerous animal of all ourselfs :P

[helenos aiakides]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

Reported today, the revision of the estimate.
Very relevant to this discussion

[King Philip II]

Hello everyone, I'm a long time lurker, (very) sporadic poster. I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but here it goes, anyways.

I wanted to say something about what the EB team has achieved and the legacy that Europa Barbarorum is set to leave for future generations. I wonder if you EB players have any idea how well respected and well known this mod is. Just yesterday I was looking at a thread on Reddit about 'historically accurate games'. Europa Barbarorum was mentioned several times as one of the best historical gaming experiences, alongside other great game series such as Europe Universalis and IL2: Sturmovik (a flight sim).

A few months ago I was hanging out with some fellow uni students, who were in the 'letteren en wijsbegeerte' faculty, studying history and classical history as their majors. I brought up the subject of videogames and immediately the conversation turned towards the Europa Barbarorum mod. 3 out of the 5 people there had played it, and all of us saw the mod as a great inspiration. Europa Barbarorum was the spark that set us on the path of becoming interested in Classical Antiquity, the gateway drug that introduced us into the wonderful world of historical research and literature. It's been 6 years since the first time I played it and I still give the ol' campaign a go every couple of months.

When I visited Romania on a road trip, I took a sidetrip to Sarmizegetusa, to visit the ruins of the old Dacian temple complex there. It was wonderful, It was as if I saw the story of Zalmoxis and the Kogaionon right in front of my eyes as living history. And I have Europa Barbarorum to thank for that. This mod has opened my eyes to some beautiful things in this world, things I never would have been passionate about had I not played it.

So there, I'd like to thank the team for having such an influence on my life, however small it may seem to you guys (it feels big for me). Salute!

Good post! +1

"Just yesterday I was looking at a thread on Reddit about 'historically accurate games'. Europa Barbarorum was mentioned several times as one of the best historical gaming experiences, alongside other great game series such as Europe Universalis and IL2: Sturmovik (a flight sim)"
I'm surprised "The Grey Wolves" for Silent Hunter III is not on your list. It's a very nerdy submarine simulation, so maybe that explains it :)

[Moros]

Correct!

My Guess would be Gent? In Leuven the faculty of philosophy and arts has been split decennia ago, In Brussels there's no option for majors in classical history I believe. And well Antwerpen... Is just not a fun town to study in. So you're home would be the Overpoort?

[Ailfertes]

This is getting funny quite fast. Where are you based Moros? (I'm doing a PhD in Gent right now btw).

[Moros]

Leuven, the only university in Flanders with a seperate classical history curriculum.

[Brennus]

Damn Belgae

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

On the subject of Belgium, this is quite scary. My supervisor (I'm studying a Masters by research in Melbourne) got his PhD from Ghent. He has encouraged my girlfriend (another of his students) and I to apply for a scholarship that would take one of us to Brussels, and told her specifically to consider applying to Leuven...

Belgium: the unexpected capital of ancient historical research...

[Ailfertes]

Your supervisor is Frederik Vervaet?

BTW Curio, why did you choose that name? (I thought it was a stupid question to ask for the interview) I'm currently writing an article about Curio (the tribune of 50), so I'm quite interested