Occulus Rift + Thief = Potential for Pure Win!

[Vuk]

Now of course I am talking about the real Thief, and not the lousy trash reboot that is coming out. Can you imagine playing TDP with the Occulus Rift (Assuming someone creates a drive that would allow it, which I am sure they will) where you get your eye wripped out? Then the player would only be able to see out of one eye, just like Garrett. And then when you get your mechanical eye, only one side would zoom in, so you would need to close one eye (just like Garrett would have to)! That would make it so much more immersive!
Sure, it would take a lot of work to implement that, but can you imagine how cool that would be?

[Husar]

Not if someone doesn't implement a new graphics engine.

Yes, I'm spoiled.

[Fragony]

Meh, best engine ever, no other engine makes you feel like you can actually touch the walls and breath the air, you are totally immersed in the gameworld. Perfect fit for the Occules Rift, with the still unmatched sound-design that makes the graphics nothing more than graphical feedback of what's going on this could be the best idea ever.

[TinCow]

Not if someone doesn't implement a new graphics engine.

Yes, I'm spoiled.

I loved Thief, but I agree. Though, ironically, I can't wait to use the Occulus with Minecraft.

[Fragony]

I would love to see what they can do with the Dark-engine running on modern hardware. It just has a quality that isn't found in any other engines, the sense of actually being there. Thief and System-Shock 2 have never been very goodlooking, but the sense that every object is solid is unmatched, you aren't in the prettiest gameworlds but you are really there

[TinCow]

Thief and System-Shock 2 have never been very goodlooking, but the sense that every object is solid is unmatched, you aren't in the prettiest gameworlds but you are really there

They were good for their time, but I don't think they're unmatched. Skyrim far surpassed Thief on having a tangible world around you with care given to every tiny detail. Even better, Skyrim already works (to a certain extent) on the Oculus.

FYI, I plan on buying the Oculus on launch. I've wanted at-home VR ever since the early 90s arcade VR craze.

[Furunculus]

i'm looking forward to the thief 4 reboot, the developer earned my respect with deus ex 3 (unlike DX2 and Thief3), but yes, occulus rift support would be ace.

[Vuk]

i'm looking forward to the thief 4 reboot, the developer earned my respect with deus ex 3 (unlike DX2 and Thief3), but yes, occulus rift support would be ace.

DX 3 earned you respect? :O I won't go into all the reasons that Eidos Montreal sucks or that the new Thief game will suck, because that is not the purpose of this thread, but suffice it to say that I couldn't disagree with you more strongly.

They were good for their time, but I don't think they're unmatched. Skyrim far surpassed Thief on having a tangible world around you with care given to every tiny detail. Even better, Skyrim already works (to a certain extent) on the Oculus.

FYI, I plan on buying the Oculus on launch. I've wanted at-home VR ever since the early 90s arcade VR craze.

But you are wrong there. You go running into a heavy wooden cart full of watermelons and you leg hitting into them overturns the cart, sends it flying, and send the watermelons flying everywhere. Between the horrible physics and unrealistic jumping that makes it feel like gravity is a non-existant concept, and the ridiculous overuse and misuse of lighting and shader effects, Skyrim feels nowhere near as realistic as Thief. With how much technology has advanced, there is no excuse for that. It should feel 1000000 times more realistic.

I would love to see what they can do with the Dark-engine running on modern hardware. It just has a quality that isn't found in any other engines, the sense of actually being there. Thief and System-Shock 2 have never been very goodlooking, but the sense that every object is solid is unmatched, you aren't in the prettiest gameworlds but you are really there

Agreed. Now that the source code is going to be released, we may be seeing new life being breathed into the engine. It is one heck of a base to work off of.

Meh, best engine ever, no other engine makes you feel like you can actually touch the walls and breath the air, you are totally immersed in the gameworld. Perfect fit for the Occules Rift, with the still unmatched sound-design that makes the graphics nothing more than graphical feedback of what's going on this could be the best idea ever.

Esp if someone puts out a mod that has excellent hi-res textures (I was working on one, and ran out of time), redesigned levels to make them feel more realistic, and higher-poly models. I think with a little work Thief could be made to look amazingly realistic and still keep the same charm and beauty of the original.

Not if someone doesn't implement a new graphics engine.

Yes, I'm spoiled.

Why not just update the current one?

[TinCow]

But you are wrong there. You go running into a heavy wooden cart full of watermelons and you leg hitting into them overturns the cart, sends it flying, and send the watermelons flying everywhere. Between the horrible physics and unrealistic jumping that makes it feel like gravity is a non-existant concept, and the ridiculous overuse and misuse of lighting and shader effects, Skyrim feels nowhere near as realistic as Thief. With how much technology has advanced, there is no excuse for that. It should feel 1000000 times more realistic.

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. While the Dark Engine was nice for its time, it is still extremely obsolete. Even with fan-made patches, its age is impossible to ignore. You're talking about how superb immersion would be with the Oculus, and then choosing to immerse yourself in a world where every single thing you look at screams of outdated technology. The game itself is also, quite simply, empty. There are very few items and things you can interact with by the standards of pretty much any modern game, let alone any of Bethsoft's Kings of Clutter. Some oddly janky physics here and there are a relatively minor thing and far less jarring to immersion than Theif's... basically everything.

Don't get me wrong, it is a great game and it looked superb 15 years ago, but it's not an engine I'm interested in using the Oculus on. The game's mechanics have aged well, but its engine has not.

[Fragony]

You said Theif. I dont't see why it wouldn't look incredibible, Thief was never about graphics but with some upgrades the Dark-engine will look incredible. If it's true that the source code has been released we are going to see a lot of awesome, Thief community is very much alive there are still fan-missions being made.

[Vuk]

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. While the Dark Engine was nice for its time, it is still extremely obsolete. Even with fan-made patches, its age is impossible to ignore. You're talking about how superb immersion would be with the Oculus, and then choosing to immerse yourself in a world where every single thing you look at screams of outdated technology. The game itself is also, quite simply, empty. There are very few items and things you can interact with by the standards of pretty much any modern game, let alone any of Bethsoft's Kings of Clutter. Some oddly janky physics here and there are a relatively minor thing and far less jarring to immersion than Theif's... basically everything.

Don't get me wrong, it is a great game and it looked superb 15 years ago, but it's not an engine I'm interested in using the Oculus on. The game's mechanics have aged well, but its engine has not.

When you get down to the brass tacks of it, looking at both Skyrim and Thief, you can easily tell that neither is real. The visuals are not nearly as important as the content of the text, the conversations, the immersion that the sound provides, and the game mechanics. It is very easy to create sound that can easily be mistaken for real sound, but visuals have not yet got to that point. There is a lot more that goes into making a game believable than texture quality and the amount of clutter.
Don't get me wrong, I hope that the first two Thiefs are updated (I started such a project myself, but ran out of time to continue it), and I think that they could be even better than they are now. I do not, however, believe that there is currently a game in existence that can favorably compare to it in terms of immersion.
I'm afraid on this we will need to agree to disagree.

[Vuk]

You said Theif. I dont't see why it wouldn't look incredibible, Thief was never about graphics but with some upgrades the Dark-engine will look incredible. If it's true that the source code has been released we are going to see a lot of awesome, Thief community is very much alive there are still fan-missions being made.

Monday I will post you some pics of what people have been doing. In the meantime, here are some awesome vids from SlipTip.

[Fragony]

I am impressed! Especially with the round geomatry that wasn't possible before

[Vuk]

Do you notice the plants blowing in the wind too? These things are all just barely scratching the surface of 1.19's abilities, and with the source code those abilities can be expanded even more. Here is some stuff people have been doing with the new updates.
Here are some tests I did when the new engine was released. You can see the new higher poly pillar next to the old one, and higher res textures. (The jagged look on the high-res pillar is from the texture not matching up. It was just a quick test of the new engine)




Here are some more images of what people have been using the engine's new abilities to create. And keep in mind, this is only the beginning. People are just wetting their feet. Give it a few more years and you will see great things.





































(Can you imagine playing Thief when it has objects that look this good?)




















I saved SlipTip's pics for last, because they are by far the most outstanding (as usual).





















Keep in mind that all of these are WIP. Also, some are better than others. The new engine gives new potential, but it is up to us to get that potential out of it. I honestly think that the Dark engine has an exciting future.

[Fragony]

Absolutely amazing what they are doing there, it looks stunning. If someone can tell me how light and space can be done any better than this I'd love to hear it

[Vuk]

I couldn't agree more. Skyrim has an advantage when rendering large, outdoor environments, but when it comes to interior environments, Skyrim does not even come close.
Here is another one that I forgot to put up. Sliptip again.

[Fragony]

Simply incredibly good. I didn't know about this, shame on me. People have done some incredible things before but this beats all the competition. Going to buy a steambox the laptop can't run this. I am truly impressed these are the best graphics I have ever seen

[Vuk]

Yeah, as far as I know, no one is currently working on a project to update the original games with better graphics, but the fan missions in the next few years are going to be amazing. I think it is inevitable though that eventually someone is going to start a project to update the original games.

[Fragony]

Who cares, already played these games to death, I know every knook and cranny, a graphical update wouldn't do all that much for me. But I love the fanwork, even ex-developers play fanmissions. This is simply incredible though I would never have actually believed the Dark-engine could look this good. Gently apoligize for being so wrong Husar and Tincow, or I have no other option than calling your mom and telling her you suck

[Vuk]

Who cares, already played these games to death, I know every knook and cranny, a graphical update wouldn't do all that much for me. But I love the fanwork, even ex-developers play fanmissions. This is simply incredible though I would never have actually believed the Dark-engine could look this good. Gently apoligize for being so wrong Husar and Tincow, or I have no other option than calling your mom and telling her you suck

lol, and the amazing thing is that this is just the beginning. One fan made patch made this all possible. Further revision of the engine in the future will refine the graphics even further.
I can't disagree with you more on a remastered game though. First of all, there is the potential of attracting new followers to the franchise with a remastered version. Second of all the original games have an amazing charm that just cannot be replicated. I have played them over tons of times, and still will more. A remastered Thief and Thief 2 could have slightly improved level design to make it a new experience. I think you would probably play it if it came out. I know I would play a remastered Thief 2 to death.
You will have to excuse Husar and Tincow, they are newschool noobs.

[Fragony]

I would play it but I kinda doubt it will attract any newcommers, let them have their way with the upcomming atrocity that is Thief 4. Trailer looks nothing like the real thing, and my interest in the future of the series was already vaporised by Thief 3. Glad the fans keep the originals alive. I would play it for sure yes. Would love to hate having to return to the Haunted Cathedral with these graphics I am calling my doctor in advance if I do. You also suck because you like Thief 2 better by the way. No other game has terrified me as much as the first Thief did, I had to take a 4 month break after I encountered the first haunt. That was incredibly scary. I was wondering why the hell a hammarite was in an zombie-infested church and tried to blackjack it because blackjacking is awesome, that turned out to be a really bad idea. On my second playthrough I realised I should have known better as there is also one in the level that leads to the cathedral, exploration faux de moi. The robots in Thief 2 are also scary, and the masked servants sinister as can be as they are obviously suffering from the mask they are forced to wear but it never gets as much under your skin as the Boneheart or the Cathedral. Pure terror.

Absolute kudo's for the police-station and the Bank and Life at the Party though, awesome. Police station you can beat in an hour as it's a small level but it's really really tense

Gawd how I love these games. Nothing can and will ever come close. We have a fellow fanboy by the way I recently learned we can add my fellow Dutchie Hax to our lines

[Vuk]

I would play it but I kinda doubt it will attract any newcommers, let them have their way with the upcomming atrocity that is Thief 4. Trailer looks nothing like the real thing, and my interest in the future of the series was already vaporised by Thief 3. Glad the fans keep the originals alive. I would play it for sure yes. Would love to hate having to return to the Haunted Cathedral with these graphics I am calling my doctor in advance if I do. You also suck because you like Thief 2 better by the way. No other game has terrified me as much as the first Thief did, I had to take a 4 month break after I encountered the first haunt. That was incredibly scary. I was wondering why the hell a hammarite was in an zombie-infested church and tried to blackjack it because blackjacking is awesome, that turned out to be a really bad idea. On my second playthrough I realised I should have known better as there is also one in the level that leads to the cathedral, exploration faux de moi. The robots in Thief 2 are also scary, and the masked servants sinister as can be as they are obviously suffering from the mask they are forced to wear but it never gets as much under your skin as the Boneheart or the Cathedral. Pure terror.

Absolute kudo's for the police-station and the Bank and Life at the Party though, awesome. Police station you can beat in an hour as it's a small level but it's really really tense

Gawd how I love these games. Nothing can and will ever come close. We have a fellow fanboy by the way I recently learned we can add my fellow Dutchie Hax to our lines

I lost hope for the official future of the series as well, but we fans can still continue it. (esp since they rebooted the series now)
As far as TDP being better than TMA, horse radish! Thief TDP frankly bored me through most of the game. Constantine's mansion amused me a bit, but the only level I found truly scary was (return to) the Haunted Cathedral. See, I am not big into the whole undead thing. To me it just seems silly, not scary. It ruins immersion for me, because I cannot believe myself there with those creatures when I find their whole existence to be an absurd impossibility.
Thief 2 was scarier because I could feel like I was there, and in a very real danger. And having steel floors everywhere made stuff really intense.

Good for Hax. Glad to know that there are more out there. Froggy, you, Hax, and myself makes four, so we are still a pretty small minority though. :P

[Vuk]

Yet another update to the engine released, fixing bugs and expanding capabilities.

[TinCow]

In related news, the Oculus clearly has other interesting uses for imaginative game devs:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...culus_Rift.php

[Vuk]

In related news, the Oculus clearly has other interesting uses for imaginative game devs:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...culus_Rift.php

lol, that is hilarious.

[Fragony]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5--ZKsAi5E0

Hmmmmm. I will leave it to Adolf Hitler to express how I feel about Thief 4 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4

fs use that budget to update the Dark-engine like the fans did in their free time (kudos to Vuk for pointing it out) and create something truly amazing with the raw strength of modern pc's or the ps4. Thief can't be done on anything else. Thief DS was enough of a slap in the face enough allready, do I really need to be slapped as well. That is NOT Thief. Period.

[Vuk]

Yeah, I almost cried when I saw what they did with Thief. They even said one of the reasons they were doing a reboot is because the story, mythology, and level of detail of the world were too complicated, and they wanted to do something simpler that related more to modern audiences. ei, they wanted to dumb it down in story as well as in game mechanics. I really hope that all the people at Eidos Montreal die of kidney failure at the same time. First Deus Ex, now Thief. What are they gonna *#&@ up next?