New M2TW Hotseat Game: Sign Ups/ Rules Discussion

[Darth Feather]

I seem to remeber the creator released a no-garisonscript version.

EDIT: Sorry can't check it, TWcenter is down (again)

[LooseCannon1]

I think the no-garrison script was for 4.2 but it's not that hard to create one. Make a copy and delete about 1500 lines of code and then test it. I may be able to do that over this weekend but more likely next weekend.

But my opinion is, that we should leave it in. It is heavily biased towards the British Isles but so is the whole mod. (Wick gets a garrison script?? but not the Egyptian castle in Gaza). The AI will sally and battles during the AI turn can be fought. The last player (usually Jerusalem) just has to save on the battle screen and send to the right player. That's what I'm doing on the heavengames hotseat. It may make the pace of playing slower but the challange is greater. Otherwise you'll be attacking almost empty AI cities as it likes to take it's garrisons out for "walk-abouts"

[Myth]

Which HG hotseat have you joined? I'm glad my effort bore some fruits, though I still want that HG vs ORG game I also think the garrison script is nice to have, and It'd be great if Loose would admin this game.

[LooseCannon1]

Which HG hotseat have you joined? I'm glad my effort bore some fruits, though I still want that HG vs ORG game I also think the garrison script is nice to have, and It'd be great if Loose would admin this game.

I'm in their M2TWH hotseat(2) game as KOJ starting on turn 9 (i think). Admin'ing games is easy as long as they're not called "Blackfrye Rebellion" or "Steel, iron and Blood" The #*&%$ things people will do to win a stupid game just amazes me sometimes.

[Mithridate]

I'm in their M2TWH hotseat(2) game as KOJ starting on turn 9 (i think). Admin'ing games is easy as long as they're not called "Blackfrye Rebellion" or "Steel, iron and Blood" The #*&%$ things people will do to win a stupid game just amazes me sometimes.

Sorry for that Loose ^^ You are much appreciated!

believe me however... It could be worse... a lot worse actually

[LooseCannon1]

Alright, I need some victims correction guinea pigs correction again Brave Knights to try out my no-garrison script for KGCM 4.3. I suggest moving your present campaign_script file to someplace safe, like My Documents, so you reinstall it later and then unzip this file to the proper location. I only tried it for KOJ against Alexandria and Cairo and it worked fine so please try another faction and report back

[Myth]

Thanks Loose! You're a great help! I want just 4 more players like you and Mithridate and we'd be having a ball over here.

By the way @Mithridate, are we continuing our deathmatch game?

[TheCeLL]

Is recruitment for this hotseat still open? I would like to join/sign up. This would be my first time playing hotseat though xd

[Nightbringer]

It is, provided everyone else is still interested. Would people like to start picking factions?

Just to check on possible people, please just chime in if you are still up for this game. (I'm just pinging everyone who has posted here)
@Myth @Mithridate @LooseCannon1 @Darth Feather @Kilij Æ Varyl @TheCeLL

And two others who may be interested. :) @Ignoramus @Askthepizzaguy

[Myth]

I'm up for it. I hope I can download KGCM and see LooseCannon's fix.

[Mithridate]

Same, tho i fear im pretty much at capacity...

Then again, HSs here always have been a bit slow and forgiving on slowness :D

[Darth Feather]

For me also, but I have holidays the last two weeks of august and probably no internet (unless I can use some unprotected wifi. Bad Darth Feather)

[TheCeLL]

I'm ups for it. I know that I'm completly free for the rest of the summer (except for some exceptions on weekends)

[LooseCannon1]

I'm still up for it.

We've hit turn 20 over at heavengames and the garrison script is boring people to death, i think. As Crusaders/KoJ I cannot take Cairo yet as my manpower is not enough to beat the garrison. I forgot I already made a no-garrison for 4.3 here

edit:@Mithridate That's because invicta's not here. You don't want to know how many DAILY sub requests for Dome I was getting last week. For the rest of you, "Under the Dome" is our 24 player SS game we started 3 weeks ago. Five people play their turn every day. We just hit turn 5 and 3 factions are dead already

[Nightbringer]

okay, looks like we have a good group then. I will work on a full draft of the rules and should get it up sometime tonight.

[Nightbringer]

Rules

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Each player has 48 hours to complete his turn (not counting weekends). After that the Admin may skip his faction or he can be subbed.

Do not bypass or ignore zones of control to lift a siege (or in any other way).

Do not attack ships in ports.

Armies boarding ships in ports can't stay there for more than one turn.

Don't leave blockaded ports without beating the blockading ships first.

Don't stack merchants in armies or forts to get more than one to stand on the same resource (Merchant Fort)

No surrounding armies or agents to destroy them. (Surround&Destroy)

Don't attack units who were left next to a settlement in order to capture it on the same turn in order to cheat the garrison script. In fact don't cheat the garrison script period. (this only applies vs AI factions)

Don't use repeated offers for bribe to increase your faction leader's dread.

Enable "Unlimited men on battlefield" in order to not abuse when leading battles vs the AI (PM me for instructions, though SS has this on by default)

Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.

Ballistas can't open anything, catapults can open wooden walls, trebuchets or better can open anything.

Assassins are allowed to target anyone but the players are limited to one assassination attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else. Upon a successful assassination the game admin can load that player's save and attempt the assassination. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

Spies are not allowed to open anything.

ONLY religious buildings can be destroyed upon the conquest of a settlement and ONLY if they are of a religion different than your own.

No trading of provinces to receive free troops. If you trade provinces, make sure they have no garrison prior to the exchange.

No deliberate deals that would put you in debt above -10,000 florins.

New/game specific rules

Players may not engage in any kind of diplomacy with the Papal States.

Players may not request for the Pope to call crusades on any non-player factions (to prevent burning the crusade timer then getting excommunicated).

Players may not attack non-catholic factions that the papal states is not at war with, with the following exceptions. (Only the Pope gets to start "crusades" against non-believers)
-Muslim provinces in mainland Europe may be taken by anyone. (northern coast of the Mediterranean, west of the Black Sea.)
-Lithuanian provinces may be captured freely.
-Players may join crusades, and may capture any settlements owned by the faction the crusade is called upon, and any settlements owned by excommunicated factions.


Winner by Point System For consideration

Dispense with rules limiting which factions may be attacked.

The game's winner is based on a point system.

The first player to reach 50 points wins the game.
(If multiple conditions apply, points do not stack, simply take points from highest category.)

Capturing the target of a crusade is worth 10 points.

Capturing settlements owned by the target of a crusade are worth 5 points.

Capturing settlements owned by any excommunicated faction are worth 3 points.

Capturing settlements owned by a Muslim faction in mainland Europe are worth 3 points.

Capturing settlements owned by Lithuania are worth 2 points.

Capturing settlements owned by any faction at war with the pope are worth 2 points.

Capturing settlements owned by a Muslim faction not at war with the Pope are worth -1 points.

Capturing settlements owned by a Orthodox faction not at war with the Pope are worth -2 points.

Capturing settlements owned by a Catholic faction not at war with the Pope are worth -3 points.

Special Rule: Call for Crusade

Can only be done if at least 2 non-excommunicated players exist.
Any non-excommunicated player may attempt to call a crusade at the start of a turn cycle.
They select a single province owned by any faction (except non-excommunicated Catholics) to be the target of the crusade.
If done, all non-excommunicated players get single vote that must be made during that turn cycle.
If a majority (over half) of players vote that the crusade is just, then the following additional conditions apply.
-Capturing the target of this crusade is worth 8 points.
-Capturing other settlements owned by the target of this crusade is worth 4 points.

Excommunicated Crusade

Works exactly the same as the above call for crusade, except that all instances of excommunicated/non-excommunicated are switched. (the heresy has spread far enough that it has become a schism in the church, with zealots on both sides.

[Myth]

Battle type?

Also, what are the rules for attacking Rome? Assassinating the Pope? Killing him in battle?

[Darth Feather]

Tested the no-garisson-script: Props to @LooseCannon1

I am still at a loss about the faction I would play.

[LooseCannon1]

Token expired?? I've wasted time testing something and typing a reply and the forum eats it?? I'll be back later with objections, reasons for same and possible solution.

[Nightbringer]

Battle type?

Also, what are the rules for attacking Rome? Assassinating the Pope? Killing him in battle?

I'm fine either way on battle type, maybe leaning towards fought battles.

As to attacking Rome and killing the Pope, I see no need for special rules regarding that. You get automatically excommunicated from the war and killing the pope doesn't end that. If you can assassinate the Pope with your one attempt per turn, so be it. I see that as a perfectly legitimate tactic. Do you think there need to be special rules regarding the Pope?

[Myth]

Actually if you're excommunicated and you slay the Pope in battle a new one comes up and he usually reconciles everyone. Worst case scenario is that the new Pope hates you and you get to kill him as well until one of your own Cardinals gets elected.

[Nightbringer]

Actually if you're excommunicated and you slay the Pope in battle a new one comes up and he usually reconciles everyone. Worst case scenario is that the new Pope hates you and you get to kill him as well until one of your own Cardinals gets elected.

Doesn't it keep you at war with the papal states though, meaning instant excommunication? That's how i remember it always going in my single player games.

[LooseCannon1]

Now where was I? Oh yes, the point system, I'm not in favor of it. The reason is, on KGCM, many factions start off at war withe each other-Moors vs Spain and Portugal, Turks vs Antioch, Egypt vs KOJ, Ireland vs England, and Scotland vs Norway (that i remember). And the AI is quite stupid. As KOJ I offer 10,000 florins and Tripoli for ceasefire, (a generous offer) which is soundly REJECTED. And with the highest Papal favor I cannot get a Crusade called (on turn 1). But, after hiring 4 priests and defeating one Egyptian army I can get a Crusade called on Cairo (turn 3). I simply then blitz Egypt and can accumilate almost 50 points before taking Cairo. And do this before anyone else even has a chance.

I had a solution in mind Sunday but forgot it when the forum ate my original post. I'll think of it again in a few days.

[Nightbringer]

Now where was I? Oh yes, the point system, I'm not in favor of it. The reason is, on KGCM, many factions start off at war withe each other-Moors vs Spain and Portugal, Turks vs Antioch, Egypt vs KOJ, Ireland vs England, and Scotland vs Norway (that i remember). And the AI is quite stupid. As KOJ I offer 10,000 florins and Tripoli for ceasefire, (a generous offer) which is soundly REJECTED. And with the highest Papal favor I cannot get a Crusade called (on turn 1). But, after hiring 4 priests and defeating one Egyptian army I can get a Crusade called on Cairo (turn 3). I simply then blitz Egypt and can accumilate almost 50 points before taking Cairo. And do this before anyone else even has a chance.

I had a solution in mind Sunday but forgot it when the forum ate my original post. I'll think of it again in a few days.

hmm, I hadn't know there were a lot of pre-existing wars in KCGM. Still, you can't request a crusade so it shouldn't go quite like that. I think it would also perhaps be best to ban KoJ simply because of their strange position. I would be interested in hearing your solution.

[TheCeLL]

Have we decided what mod to play? I keep hearing on this thread either stainless steel or KGCM. Is it undecided?

[Nightbringer]

Well, we've been leaning towards KCGM, but there is no reason that can't be changed if most people want it to.

[Myth]

I installed KGCM but I can't run it out of the launcher, it crashes... Hmmm..

[LooseCannon1]

I installed KGCM but I can't run it out of the launcher, it crashes... Hmmm..

Straight CTD? I never thought to use the original M2TW launcher. I have a seperate desktop icon for KGCM (Both 4.2 and 4.3). When I tried the launcher on mine a message about not being able to connect to a server popped up but a version of the game was on my taskbar. It turned out to be to 4.2 Did you try going to KGCM's batch file and starting from there?

[Myth]

I have a shortcut but it doesn't start. I'll try reinstalling.

[Nightbringer]

@LooseCannon, do you still remember what your suggestions were?
Also, does anyone have ideas for game name?