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Thread: Random Thoughts Thread

  1. #1681
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random Thoughts Thread

    Just realized that "taxation with representation" in Parliament for American colonists would not have been physically possible in that era - meaning that GB could have had no authority to tax (American) colonists, meaning that GB could have had no authority to rule over the American colonists: leaving GB the options of departure or war.

    If it happens that early and leading "patriots" did not follow through to this logic, and they tended not to consider separation from the mother country until well into 1776, then we should put even more stock in the notion that high-minded debate of philosophical ideals was largely the fig leaf for the proximate commercial interests of an up-and-coming colonial bourgeoisie.
    Vitiate Man.

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  2. #1682
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random Thoughts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Just realized that "taxation with representation" in Parliament for American colonists would not have been physically possible in that era - meaning that GB could have had no authority to tax (American) colonists, meaning that GB could have had no authority to rule over the American colonists: leaving GB the options of departure or war.

    If it happens that early and leading "patriots" did not follow through to this logic, and they tended not to consider separation from the mother country until well into 1776, then we should put even more stock in the notion that high-minded debate of philosophical ideals was largely the fig leaf for the proximate commercial interests of an up-and-coming colonial bourgeoisie.
    Both issues were at play. The commercial angle wasn't even 'hidden' at the time. The biggest name on the DoI was not that of a political theorist...
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  3. #1683
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random Thoughts Thread

    Yeah, but I'm struck by the implied inevitability. Even if everyone on both sides of the Atlantic had agreed in principle that Parliamentary representation was the correct compromise, it would never have been practicable in the 18th century.

    This means that those fomenters either did not really think through their proposed dream solution, or being intelligent men they did understand the point, but it never bothered them because they weren't looking for an amicable way out in the first place.
    Vitiate Man.

  4. #1684
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random Thoughts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Yeah, but I'm struck by the implied inevitability. Even if everyone on both sides of the Atlantic had agreed in principle that Parliamentary representation was the correct compromise, it would never have been practicable in the 18th century.

    This means that those fomenters either did not really think through their proposed dream solution, or being intelligent men they did understand the point, but it never bothered them because they weren't looking for an amicable way out in the first place.
    Probably some of both would be my guess. You are correct as to the practicability of New World MPs with a month-long trip one way for messages and to attend sessions. But I would bet more than a few didn't think that part through.

    Among the independency crowd, the only amicable resolution would have had to have followed the approach later taken in Canada. Anything less than functional independence with local government would not have stood up to their goals. Otis, the Adames, and a few others didn't want anything less than we ultimately did achieve.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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