Amazon: Total War 8.0 Release

[Balgeron]

One thing is, that Linked Clad Cavalry should still not be so easily attainable (same for Battle Wagon (not the Horde one!)) and Far East Celts shouldn't start with it maybe? They still have a lot of good units, even in the beginning of the game.

And other thing - what is Quest Campaign? I never seen anything like that anywhere in game, nor in readme - i just start the Anti Imperial Campaign, and start the script as you suggested (with adviser X, after show me).

[parthian shot]

One thing is, that Linked Clad Cavalry should still not be so easily attainable (same for Battle Wagon (not the Horde one!)) and Far East Celts shouldn't start with it maybe? They still have a lot of good units, even in the beginning of the game.

And other thing - what is Quest Campaign? I never seen anything like that anywhere in game, nor in readme - i just start the Anti Imperial Campaign, and start the script as you suggested (with adviser X, after show me).

Perhaps we can allow only one Linked Armor Clad Cavalry units instead of more. Like Paul mentioned, in AI, the FE Celt behavior can still be aggressive but usually retain no more than three regions after the initial flair of aggression.

For 8.0A release, the Quest Campaign is the third selection of the game menu.

Below the Anti-Imperial Campaign, you would see custom battle button, below the custom battle, you would see Quest Campaign.

[Wheeliepaul]

New unit cards

[Wheeliepaul]

[parthian shot]

An emergency fix is being uploaded, this is to resolve the problem with the missing Amazon character gallery entry #217.
The missing character can cause undefined pointer and system crash.

In addition, some place names have been changed to prepare for the 450BC quest campaign.

[Cel SB]

So are we allowed to check in new fixes now?

[parthian shot]

Not yet, first of all BB is not back, so if we go ahead with the changes, the test result will not be logged.
Second, we are still waiting for the completion of the 43x63 unit tiles.

[Balgeron]

Perhaps we can allow only one Linked Armor Clad Cavalry units instead of more. Like Paul mentioned, in AI, the FE Celt behavior can still be aggressive but usually retain no more than three regions after the initial flair of aggression.

For 8.0A release, the Quest Campaign is the third selection of the game menu.

Below the Anti-Imperial Campaign, you would see custom battle button, below the custom battle, you would see Quest Campaign.

Thank you, i still had 8.0, but now downloaded a new one.

And what i meant, is that to just add some tech tree requirement to the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry and Battle Wagon (besides the Blackmisth upgrades or stables upgrades). Or even better increase their build times to 2-3 turns instead of one.

[parthian shot]

Thank you, i still had 8.0, but now downloaded a new one.

And what i meant, is that to just add some tech tree requirement to the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry and Battle Wagon (besides the Blackmisth upgrades or stables upgrades). Or even better increase their build times to 2-3 turns instead of one.

If you had a chance to review how Linked Armor Clad Cavalry is first created, from the anthropology perspective, it is a tactical formation out of desperation of a defeated army.

It does not require long period to train. And its combat stat is what our best calibration allowed.

Despite that understanding, for the mod, it requires a city (level 4) infrastructure to recruit, so I am not sure I quite understand what are all the complaints about?

Like I mentioned before, there are plenty of units on the high end of the unit tree which can reduce the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry to dust.

If the game play failed to obtain such units before the player encounters the LACC, it is a strategical failing, not a tactical imbalance.

I am willing to put this to a vote by the team, all campaign testers and development team members are welcome to vote on this, if any team mate want to second the motion of Dragour (who advocates Balgeron's recommendation).

[parthian shot]

An emergency fix is being uploaded, this is to resolve the problem with the missing Amazon character gallery entry #217.
The missing character can cause undefined pointer and system crash.

In addition, some place names have been changed to prepare for the 450BC quest campaign.

The upload is now complete.

[Wheeliepaul]

New unit cards and the small tiles

[Wheeliepaul]

[Wheeliepaul]

[parthian shot]

Thank you! Paul, I will add these in with the latest non-testable changes.
Let me know if you are done with the last of the small tiles.

[Wheeliepaul]

will post them today or at last tomorrow

[Wheeliepaul]

[Wheeliepaul]

[Wheeliepaul]

[parthian shot]

A new release is published on ModDB

1. with some new unit cards added by WheeliePaul
2. Pea's new Amazonia Hoplite models, and Amazon Spearwoman models, with textures for the mercenary and slave variants.
3. new armor textures for Elite Scouts with more metalic body armors.
4. adjusted spear placement so some spear units have the butt-spike on the ground when standing still.
5. spear units' shield angles have been changed so as not to run into the upper arm in some animation.

[parthian shot]

A new release is published on ModDB

1. with some new unit cards added by WheeliePaul
2. Pea's new Amazonia Hoplite models, and Amazon Spearwoman models, with textures for the mercenary and slave variants.
3. new armor textures for Elite Scouts with more metalic body armors.
4. adjusted spear placement so some spear units have the butt-spike on the ground when standing still.
5. spear units' shield angles have been changed so as not to run into the upper arm in some animation.

Pea has sent in a second path fix to change the texture for the amazon spear units. The upload is now at ModDB.

[Balgeron]

Hi again, (forgive me the wrong spelling of names)

Some units still needs upkeep adjustments. I tried Geothe now, and really the elephants cost way too much upkeep. They might have being cheap before, but now the catapharact of armored elephants has upkeep around 900. Geothe ballista elephants got around 800. That's what a one city makes in a turn. And elephants have only 1 hit point, and can be scared quite easily with flaming arrows.

True is that the unit has devastating firepower with unmatch range, but if you can please cut it down at least by 100-200.

The final spearman unit for each amazon faction has also this problem - the one with the long scythes or halberd like weapons - they have around 400 upkeep, which is definitely too much as they are very slow, and already expensive (1500 one)

The pathfinders on the other hand still has low upkeep, around 120. Which doesn't make much sense when Companion Horse Archers has 263, and are weaker with pretty much the same abilities. Besides that pathfinders has ridicules defense and attack range (shouldn't they be limited to Thermodan Amaznons?).

Another thing, i don't understand what is Catapharact (the heavy horse riders) for. They cost a lot, you need Royal Stables (final upgrade), and they don't have 2 hit points of Noble Maidens, nor their termite weapons, and neither the range advantage of Pathfinders. I don't think they have better armor either. And although they have lower upkeep then Noble Maidens, they still cost more and takes 2 turns to build. Shouldn't they be a melee unit?

Geothe ships also needs some changes. I see you nerfed them by replacing Trime/Brime with barbarian boats, but the flaming ships still has too low upkeep(and maybe they could be slower then boats, or something to make boats a better transport)

Geothe peasants also takes only 50 upkeep - is this intended? Every other peasant takes 100 and are weaker (the Geothe ones has bombs!)

Also too many amazon units have 'good morale'(or better) ability, it shouldn't be that common. Archers and milita units or other basic units shouldn't have this and be more prone to running away.

Temples needs some adjustments as well. That Camilla temple is just straight up superior to everything else (how is it that all the amazons venerate her? - especially Thyssa and Gorgons, i thought they had their own pantheons). I think Danu temple is the weakest, as even at the final upgrade it gives everything that the Angoborda (what is her name?), but doesn't upgrade ranged weapons and doesn't provide upkeep-free units.


Some errors -

The mace wielding infantry of Armens has 0 upkeep. I can't remember the name.(writing from the work sorry, ill check if you need exact name)

Temple of Horse from Carthage is still missing description text

[krisslanza]

If I remember right, Geothe as a faction was left in as a "demo faction" to showcase the powers of advanced technology. So they're kind of OP on purpose if the player uses them (if it's the AI, they seem to just sit in Tanais and never expand until someone kills them off though).

[parthian shot]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments so we can have a free and productive discussion about this.

The mod always tried to outline the difference of a Goddess Theocracy and a feudal state, i.e. the "barbarians".

Most apologists of the "barbarian" are quick to point out that Celts and Gauls are better at metal smith and a great deal of many other things. But what the same apologists failed to point out is the lack of organization. Greeks have oligarchy and democracy, Romans have the republic system. Both cultures use their political system to not just vote, but to mobilize their citizenry militarily, such as levying troops and sustaining their navy.

So let us evaluate the Camilla Sect of Artemis Cult. This has been mentioned quite a few times either in the white paper, or in the mod's text sections somewhere. But it could appear to be "buried" because so many other things are described.

The Camilla Sect is a militant priestess order, equivalent in some ways to the later day Templar Knights and Knights Hospitaller. If you browse through the description on Goethe Faction, you will find that they emphasize education of the common people, communication network, and library systems. And they are a Goddess Theocracy.

Such governing entity has several unique characteristics:
1. They instill faith based fervor (but not necessary fanaticism) in their subjects. Call it brainwashing if you will.
2. There are both grass root infrastructure and central government sponsored social and faith based programs.
3. In a given location, they can be a shadow or parallel government of the whoever is in charge in the men-world.
4. Priestess Order runs the faction but also organize the military.
5. Because of the library system, it has the knowledge of how to concoct and the use of religious pyrotechnic material for the application of war and assassination.

The analysis a Pathfinder unit is a very vivid illustration to show why their upkeep cost is different from other untis. The Pathfinder are the top of the communication network hierarchy.

Background

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Level 1 Dispatchers:

Since there are message dispatchers running between the Camilla temples, the dispatchers are trained novitiates who are expert at horseback archery and close-quarter combat on horseback. In time of war, they form into light cavalry unit.

Level 2 Scouts:

On the higher level, there are the Scouts, the Scouts are either undercover Judges who protects their communities from crimes or marauders, or missionaries who live in "other faith" communities to spread the faith of the Sect. The Scouts are usually recruited from experienced dispatchers or weapon experts from the temple.

Level 3 Pathfinder:

On the highest level of the communication network, the Pathfinder is like a Field Marshal, an engineer, and explorer all rolled into one person. She is tasked to survey terrain and come up with a quickest secret communication route between one temple to another. She is responsible for organizing resources on each communication route, to ensure the proper delivery of the messages and to plan against perceived threat of her assigned route.

The Pathfinders are expert martial artists on horseback or on foot, unlike other standing missile cavalry that uses a bow, she uses a mano-ballista. The difference is, a steppe composite bow takes five years for the glue to cure, and long bow takes two years just to cut the wood, whereas mano-ballsta can be mass-produced in a matter of days. She is a Senior Priestess in the Order, so there is no salary, all her supply is drawn from the nearest temple. Her mount is a race horse, allowing her to carry more projectiles or supplies, while still catch up with most light cavalry's ponies. The keeping of her warhorse actually takes most of the cost. The practice of shooting the fire jar is made possible by shooting the bean bag like sand-pockets made to the same density and weight of the actual fire jar.

The Pathfinder unit is a grass root unit. They are not sponsored or paid by the central governing body. But they have to serve faithfully to the Priestess-Marshal, simply because the commanding general is the higher ranking prioress.

I hope this description helps to outline the differences between a goddess theocracy and the rest of the social structures depicted in the game.

[Cel SB]

The new rebel sm_faction and mercenary re-configuration files are on the test server.

[parthian shot]

The new rebel sm_faction and mercenary re-configuration files are on the test server.

Yes, Hon,

It will be integrated and if everything is fine, put into the next release.

Thanks

[Wheeliepaul]

New unit cards

[Wheeliepaul]

In process: Geothe Early general, geothe heavy cavalry, Geothe mounted halbedier, Geothe Noble maidens
Libyan arbalast infantry, libyan camel archers, libyan camel lancers, libyan heavy cavalry. gorgon axe women, gorgon barb archers
Linked armored clad cavalry

When ready start with Pea's new shield and spear units which looks great

[parthian shot]

The new rebel sm_faction and mercenary re-configuration files are on the test server.

Cel,

There is an error on the brigand rebellion mode, the load menu complained there are too many units in the category, so I took the liberty to remove the new Amazon spear unit for test matrix, let me know if this is OK.

[parthian shot]

In process: Geothe Early general, geothe heavy cavalry, Geothe mounted halbedier, Geothe Noble maidens
Libyan arbalast infantry, libyan camel archers, libyan camel lancers, libyan heavy cavalry. gorgon axe women, gorgon barb archers
Linked armored clad cavalry

When ready start with Pea's new shield and spear units which looks great

Thanks Paul!

[krisslanza]

As Geothe have the "Early" General, were they planned to have a kind of upgraded General, like the Romans get in RTW when they had the Marian Reforms, or is it just a way to suggest that later on they had better generals or something?