Acin a senior member - really?

[Sarmatian]

Oh, my God, where to begin...

Ok, I don't visit the Watchtower much, hardly ever. I came by to see if we could come up with something that would revitalize the monastery, which is just about the only other room I visit apart from the backroom. And then I notice - new senior members. Hey, lets check it out, shall we. I see a few names I know, which is understandable, since I don't visit anything apart from the backroom. I didn't even register it at first and then I remembered that acin is the troll and one of the main reasons Louis left. Mainly because I had nothing better to do, I dug up a few old threads about that. In the process I dug up some stuff about acin, some of his posts, some of his threads and learned a few things about him. I didn't want to make a thread but eventually I decided to do it. No one visits the watchtower anyway and I'll get it off my chest.

So, about acin - he made that great fuss about Louis using the word "fag" and demanded some kind of justice which led to few threads in which he was adamant that context didn't matter, it was the principle. The word "fag" was unacceptable in any context, because it was a dirty word, a slur, an insult... and demanded justice be done. Some of it can be read here. It wasn't just that he was insulted and reacted, it was a calculated attack since he saved old posts so that he can present them when the time is right. He used more than one forum account for it, which he admits he had here.

Not to mention that he got numerous infractions and warnings and was banned from the frontroom for a while. And that is just the things I know of. So, we have a malicious user, who calculated and planned an attack on another member and raised all the fuss about it for use of the word "fag", who had been using multiple accounts for that (and probably other) purpose, who had multiple warnings, infractions and bans among probably other things... And what do you do? You give him a Senior Membership. Bravo, that's a nice reward for that kind of behaviour. His example will encourage others...

And, as the icing on the cake, and such a beautiful piece of irony, one of which Socrates would have been in awe of, just about when he receives his Senior Membership, what does he do? He calls another member "a slut" here.

LOL. I knew GC​ was the biggest thanker. He is such a slut with those.

How can you not appreciate a such a fantastic piece of irony? You could go around your whole life without encountering it in such a pure form.

I don't demand disciplinary action or stripping him of Senior Membership, or anything like that, I'm just amazed by your choice. Simple as that.

[Andres]

The language rules have been loosened a lot since then; relevant thread here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...e-here-of-late

ACIN hasn't always been a prime example, but it's not the first time we promote a former "troublemaker" to senior member. People change and .Org staff doesn't hold grudges.

About Louis, cf. this post.

[Visor]

I had forgotten about faggate (what a great name). ACIN has improved though, and he generally attempts to contribute to most threads he posts in.

I don't see the issue with the GC comment, its well known that GC will thank you for almost anything.

[Sarmatian]

It's not about holding grudges, it's about fairness and merit.

A guy who was directly responsible for losing one of the most valuable contributor to the .org, who did that with malice and intent, who is basically an attention slut, who had multiple accounts, numerous warnings, infractions and bans, shouldn't be elevated to Senior Member.

I had forgotten about faggate (what a great name). ACIN has improved though, and he generally attempts to contribute to most threads he posts in.

I don't see the issue with the GC comment, its well known that GC will thank you for almost anything.

I don't see an issue with it either, but he did. And he made all hell break loose, demanding apologies and disciplinary actions. He even used his multiple accounts to draw more attention to it. Now he's a senior member and he uses even worse words.

Pathetic...

[Visor]

Fair enough. I'll agree with you that ACIN wouldn't be my choice either, but its up to the staff.

[caravel]

A guy who was directly responsible for losing one of the most valuable contributor to the .org, who did that with malice and intent, who is basically an attention slut, who had multiple accounts, numerous warnings, infractions and bans, shouldn't be elevated to Senior Member.

Well I don't think we can speculate on what caused Louis to leave as that was between Louis and the staff at the time. If Louis wants to come back, he can, if not, then he won't. Louis may have forgotten about it by now and have moved on to bigger and better things - it may be as simple as that. I can't imagine a fun loving fellow, with such a keen sense of humour wasting his time and energy wallowing...

As to the "fag" debate - that was a low point in this board's history, but there was blame on both sides. IMO it was a non issue, but you have to remember that the .org back then had tighter rules (sometimes pedantically enforced, other times laxly so) on political correctness, language, etc - thankfully those days are behind us. It was an issue involving a staff member and other staff, so should have been sorted out among the staff, instead it was public and messy and because only about half the debate was public, members were not seeing the full picture, but that's all water under the bridge.

I don't think this thread helps anyone - I have no opinion on ACIN becoming a senior. I remember years ago when he was one of a group of trollish types in the eb section, but that was a long time ago. I have no problem with the "slut" banter, but perhaps you should ask him directly why the "slut" banter is ok and why "fag" was not. Perhaps people are just human and inconsistent - or perhaps they change their ideas?

[Sarmatian]

I have no problem with the "slut" banter, but perhaps you should ask him directly why the "slut" banter is ok and why "fag" was not. Perhaps people are just human and inconsistent - or perhaps they change their ideas?

I don't care about his opinion, I care about the org.

[a completely inoffensive name]

A. I never had multiple accounts. Drunk Clown was not an alt of mine, I was being sarcastic in that "admission".

B. I never asked for the title, I never wanted it and I said from the start that I did not feel worthy of having it. You agreed with my statement in that thread which means we are in agreement here.

C. I have always been quick to anger regarding LGBT issues. Every outburst of mine on the org has been related to a thread discussing LGBT issues. This is my flaw and I readily admit it.

Vuk called me out on being an asshole to everyone and I agreed. If you missed what I said, go find the backroom thread Vuk made about it. But I said that if people want me gone, then just tell me and i will understand.

If you want me gone Sarmatian, just say so. I won't think any less of you. Obviously, you couldn't think any less of me. That's fine.

When I first came on the org, I was 16, I am now 21. Maybe this is a matter of opinion, but I think people change quite dramatically over that time of their lives. You are obviously a more respectable individual here than I. If you feel that I do not deserve the title, then I will ask for it to be removed.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I honestly don't understand what all the hoopla is about

Being named a Senior Member, while certainly an honor of recognition by fellow orgahs, doesn't convey any special rights (nor should it). I haven't had much interaction with either of you (Sarmatian, ACIN), nor have I participated in any of the past discussions you two were involved in (which has obviously precipitated this debate), but it just seems that all of this should just be put to rest.

The Admins & Mods here do a damn good job of keeping up the quality of this place, and if they say ACIN deserves to be a Senior Member, that's good enough for me. I say, just let it go...and move on to something that will actually make a difference around here. Arguing about things that have happened in the past is not one of them, IMHO.

[Kadagar_AV]

The boards were very different back then. I pretty much got warnings every second week or so, now I think I haven't been warned more than once the last year!!

I think the new policy is for the better, as it is more international and less USA-centered.

As to ACIN, I am happy for his sake. He deserves it for his contributions at large :)

[rvg]

I honestly don't understand what all the hoopla is about

Being named a Senior Member, while certainly an honor of recognition by fellow orgahs, doesn't convey any special rights (nor should it). I haven't had much interaction with either of you (Sarmatian, ACIN), nor have I participated in any of the past discussions you two were involved in (which has obviously precipitated this debate), but it just seems that all of this should just be put to rest.

Exactly. And as far as warnings go, what's the big deal really? Occasionally standing up for what you think is right may earn you a warning or an infraction. You just move past it and keep going. I've gotten my share of both and privately told the mods what they can collectively do with those infractions . Stand up for what you believe in no matter what.

P.S. Sarmatian: say what you will about ACIN, but he defends his views. His disgustingly liberal views. I respect that.

[AntiDamascus]

Does senior member have any special power or is it a title only?

[johnhughthom]

Just a title.

[drone]

Does senior member have any special power or is it a title only?

Access to the Org pr0n stash. Used to be a Senior also got a larger PM box, not sure if this is still the case.

[Veho Nex]

Do we really have a pr0n stash? If so, who do I have to bribe to become a senior member. Thats how its done right? Money and womanz?

[AntiDamascus]

If you have the womens, why need the pron?

[Lemur]

If you feel that I do not deserve the title, then I will ask for it to be removed.

That is insufficient! You must also hand-write notes of apology to the entire population of Kazakhstan, run naked through the streets, smear yourself with bear fat, pay restitution to the Hopi Indians, and personally hunt down and apologize to every living orgah, active and inactive.

After all of this is completed, then -- and ONLY then -- you will be allowed to commit ritual suicide to atone for your past. It need to be painful. I'm thinking something with horses.

(And I'd like to point out that when I was forced at gunpoint to don the Mod robes, I still had an active infraction point. So ... yeah. Some of us are just scum, is what I'm saying.)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Soly whapped me with a temp ban for telling a fellow backroomer to....attempt something that is normally thought of as anatomically impossible. I'd been rather successfully trolled and lost my temper. I deserved it.

Less than two years after that I was moderating the backroom....and that during a more "watch your language" era (A style I would still prefer by the way, but that is neither here nor there).

[AntiDamascus]

If the goal is to use weird arguments and personal attacks to keep new guys out of the backroom: mission accomplished. I think I've posted in there like 3-4 times because it's so toxic.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm happy with ACIN's promotion to Senior Membership status and want to state my support for him. He has matured a lot from his earlier days here, like he said he came as a kid really much like myself, and I never thought he was out of line in the Louis incident.

He's one of the regular contributors to the Backroom and has been for a good while, and is generally respectful and a good contributor. Sarmatian of course has a right to raise his opinion, but I don't want arguments here to overshadow things.

[Rhyfelwyr]

If the goal is to use weird arguments and personal attacks to keep new guys out of the backroom: mission accomplished. I think I've posted in there like 3-4 times because it's so toxic.

Is it really that bad? I always thought it was a friendly place.

[AntiDamascus]

Is it really that bad? I always thought it was a friendly place.

I couldn't really tell you for most of it. Beyond the talk of how great fascism is, whether blacks are genetically inferior, that Muslims need to be something something and the somewhat hilarious gun arguments around I'm not really spending all that time reading everything.

There is basically not a thread that doesn't devolve into wankery almost immediately. The only one I can even remotely post in is the climate change one because I can make sarcastic replies about how scientists are ruining the world.... because why not. Everything else just makes me sad.

[Beskar]

This post was so tempting to go off-topic, but to condense what I want to write, the Org staff from back then was a powderkeg waiting to explode and it erupted into Fag-gate. This erupted resulted into a brand new era and direction for the Org as innovation and reform was stifled heavily by the 'Unwritten Code' which some staff members fought tooth and nail to keep, to the detriment to the Org. This 'code' was finally broken as Fag-gate caused what was perceived to be the 'Unthinkable' to be done. In one light, you could think of Louis as a matyr, ushering a new start for the Org, in the other, he was a man just like everyone else who has their flaws caught up in an untenable situation.

---

Back on-topic. The Senior Membership is a recognition of efforts to the contribution to the Org, there is a great many of criteria but basically the process works like this -

"It's come to that time of year again, who do you feel deserves to have a senior membership?"

As the Backroom moderator, I mostly deal with the patrons who post there, so any of the Senior members who frequent that area would have least had a 'nod' of approval by me. So lets make this short, I would write the names of people I feel have made contributions to the Backroom. If you post some well written replies (even if I don't agree with them), you have been on 'good behaviour' and you are a noteworthy addition, then I have put their name forward or agreed with some one elses suggestion.

The case of ACIN can easily be put like this. He was a bit of a wildcard troublemaker (I am myself) but someone (Sorry ACIN, wasn’t me) came along and thought “Why not give ACIN a chance?”, and first thought might be “Oh noes, remember the EB Tavern? Remember Fag-gate?” and such as Sarmartian pointed out, but think of it this way, the only ‘negative’ thing you are pulling up about him happened two-years ago. What has he been doing since then? Well, this is what he has been doing, he has toned down many of his wilder ways and his behaviour at the worse since then is a couple of necro-posts and the odd word slip (Mostly in the beginning of those two years). However, he has made a few contributions, he ran that book contest for the sake of it and a fellow Orgah profited from that, he came up with ideas for the updating the old Political Outlook of Members thread which I replaced with a newer version. He has made several good contributions to the Front=and-Backroom, he usually comes into threads with a light-hearted jovial style with at other times bringing good intellectual contributions to the thread.

He does acts a little trollish but it is meant and perceived in a light-hearted jesting way, such as the example in the OP about GC being a slut, there were no malicious in its usage as in jokey banter between friends.

[Beskar]

I couldn't really tell you for most of it. Beyond the talk of how great fascism is, whether blacks are genetically inferior, that Muslims need to be something something and the somewhat hilarious gun arguments around I'm not really spending all that time reading everything.

...The only one I can even remotely post in is the climate change one because I can make sarcastic replies about how scientists are ruining the world.... because why not. Everything else just makes me sad.

Obviously, none of the views you objected to align with my own, so from the 'other-side' I will try to explain it this way. The Backroom is actually rather diverse in opinion, the majority of the opinion is rather central though there are some very vocal minority opinions which some times ends up unchecked or ignored by the more resident patrons as they are used to seeing the comments or think of the patron as that 'loud annoying uncle' who makes inappropriate jokes all the time and learnt to live with it. When I first went in the Backroom, I went in like a rocket and I have a big rapsheet from Banquo's Ghost to my name, but my personal opinion is this, go in there and sprout your views.

The thing is, you will learn to find that between the posts there are some good gems, written by the 'opposition', an example of this for me was Furunculus. To put bluntly, he presented a very good logical argument about many of the government grants and subs which had the aim to tackling 'Climate Change' to be wholly inefficient exercise, citing the cost-benefit factor and how they amounted to window dressing for the sheer scale and cost. The thing is, I couldn't argue with his point at all, i looked at his evident and sources and I came to the same conclusions. Whilst he was sceptical about 'Climate Change' he challenged what we were doing and even if hypothesised that he was wrong, where the failings were. It is the sort of empathetic approach which helps foster a far greater understanding on issues for the personal self.

[johnhughthom]

"sprout your views" Beskie?

Not sure whether you are suggesting knowledge will grow from posting in the Backroom, or whether you find his views as objectionable as sprouts.

[a completely inoffensive name]

All this talk about me is stroking my ego, thank you all.

I still produce nothing substantial. This is fact. Monty says more in one of his cryptic statements on the difference between the perceived consciousness of man and mans consciousness of the perceived than I do in entire paragraphs.

If Damascus were to listen to one thing I could say about the backroom, it is that on first glance the area seems like crackpot central. But if you take the time to stick around, you realize almost everyone here is an actual person who is more or less normal in everyday life. The backroom only gives what you put in, but there is the opportunity to learn about some.....unique perspectives on things.


I still believe that all of you laissez-faire parents when it comes to the internet are monsters.

[caravel]

I couldn't really tell you for most of it. Beyond the talk of how great fascism is, whether blacks are genetically inferior, that Muslims need to be something something and the somewhat hilarious gun arguments around I'm not really spending all that time reading everything.

There is basically not a thread that doesn't devolve into wankery almost immediately. The only one I can even remotely post in is the climate change one because I can make sarcastic replies about how scientists are ruining the world.... because why not. Everything else just makes me sad.

It's really not worth getting your knickers in a twist over... if you don't like the backroom (as the majority probably don't as it's only a handful of mostly long term members who post there regularly) then there are other parts of the site.

[Montmorency]

Monty says more in one of his cryptic statements on the difference between the perceived consciousness of man and mans consciousness of the perceived than I do in entire paragraphs.

Yeah, that's right!

Uh...

When was that again? I thought I was still saving that thread.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

As regards the Backroom, it should be noted that while prima facie there is a lot of vitriol thrown about, very little is meant maliciously, and almost all of it is between regular members who are well-accustomed to one another. Some is also ironic, though for a new member, it may be difficult to spot.

What I will say, as someone who used to pop up fairly regularly, then disappeared for a while and now very occasionally contribute a mite, is that if you present your views in polite, nondescript way people will respect them. They may disagree, they may ask for more information but they won't bite.

I also second, ACIN's point regarding 'unique perspectives'. It does give you a sense of how people with very different backgrounds and views approach things.

[Vuk]

On a related subject, when is poor old Vuk going to become a senior member?