Nothing to see here, move along

[Fragony]

No, the fact is that 2/3 think that Islamic law is more important to them than secular law. That does not mean that they reject or will refuse to submit to secular law, as you seem to suggest.

You could see it like that, granted. Rejection is too strong a term you are right about that. But even when toning it down a little it is still worrying.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there's nothing to see. Or can you actually see it and choose to ignore it, you can never know. Fact, lefties ignore what doesn't suit them, that, or they simply can't see facts anymore. Too far gone.

Fact, 2/3 of the muslims in Europe reject secular law.

This might seem like an odd necro, but I just watched this video from Bill Maher's show about liberals failing to criticize Islam and my god did it remind me of what Fragony said here. 10 minutes of Ben Affleck seemingly sticking his head in the sand and ignoring what everyone else was saying, proceeding to call everyone racist.

[Sarmatian]

The key point is that people were criticizing Islam, not the perverted interpretation of it by various fundamentalist and jihadists.

At its core, Islam is no more violent or conservative than Christianity. Also, people who criticize Islam fail to take into account plethora of other factors and blame the religion itself for everything that's happening. Homosexuals aren't treated much better in many, predominantly Christian, African countries.

Afleck said nothing much wrong really.

[Montmorency]

As I said in another thread, the problem is not Islam, but the Muslims themselves.

Reactionary cultural baggage - get rid of that, and "peaceful Islam" is a corollary.

[Fragony]

As I said in another thread, the problem is not Islam, but the Muslims themselves.

I would turn that around. All my muslim friends only care about what's for dinner, and are in a pretty bad mood during ramadan. Their parents go to the mosque but that's about it. Those that subject to islam though, whole different thing. Islam is vile, muslims not.

Fun fact, had a chat with an Iraqi guy who wanted to join the then ISIS, we had casually talked before. We were sitting at my house outside having a street-barbecue and he asked if he could join us. sure grab a chair. Got him as far as drinking a wine, he didn't eat the porkchops though. But it's still my personal victory on IS. Was quite an nteresting conversation.

[rajpoot]

I would turn that around. All my muslim friends only care about what's for dinner, and are in a pretty bad mood during ramadan. Their parents go to the mosque but that's about it. Those that subject to islam though, whole different thing. Islam is vile, muslims not.

I believe it depends on how you interpret Islam. Every religion has different types of followers who interpret it differently. Every religion has your hardcore fanatic types. That does not make the religion vile. The individuals interpretation however can be problematic.
So to be fair neither the religion nor your average practitioner is vile. It's just a select group of people, who would probably have been equally despicable had the been born in any other religion.

[Kralizec]

The key point is that people were criticizing Islam, not the perverted interpretation of it by various fundamentalist and jihadists.

At its core, Islam is no more violent or conservative than Christianity. Also, people who criticize Islam fail to take into account plethora of other factors and blame the religion itself for everything that's happening. Homosexuals aren't treated much better in many, predominantly Christian, African countries.

Afleck said nothing much wrong really.

I only watched the first 2-3 mintues of the video before I got bored.

But, in the part that I did watch, nobody discussed the reasons for the state of islamic countries today. Maher observed that the majority of muslims hold opinions that we would consider intolerant and bigoted. Affleck denies there is any such problem.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I have long thought that the greatest problems with Islam arise not from Islam per se, but from Pre-Islamic Arabian Warlordism.

[Kadagar_AV]

I have long thought that the greatest problems with Islam arise not from Islam per se, but from Pre-Islamic Arabian Warlordism.

Is that another way of saying that the culture is rotten?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Is that another way of saying that the culture is rotten?

Don't know that I would go quite that far. Their guesting customs and attitude towards scholars were good. I think we can point to more than a few of their pre-Islamic customs that have not stood the test of time or moral progress (or at least what passes for moral progress among the West).

[Kralizec]

I just watched the full clip.

I think Maher went over the top a few times. Then again, that's how everybody knows him and why they love him (or not)
Kristoff makes some valid points but I find it highly ironic that he objects to the others are making a caricature of Indonesia, Malaysia and such...while in those two countries, apostates from islam are frequently prosecuted and convicted; either for apostasy or under the term "blasphemy".
Ben Affleck made a fool of himself.

[HoreTore]

This might seem like an odd necro, but I just watched this video from Bill Maher's show about liberals failing to criticize Islam and my god did it remind me of what Fragony said here. 10 minutes of Ben Affleck seemingly sticking his head in the sand and ignoring what everyone else was saying, proceeding to call everyone racist.

How on earth does Ben Affleck count for anything....?

[Strike For The South]

A Pakistani guy beat me in fantasy football this week

Does that count as assimilation?

[a completely inoffensive name]

A Pakistani guy beat me in fantasy football this week

Does that count as assimilation?

Yes.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How on earth does Ben Affleck count for anything....?

Decent actor. Unfortunately, in our media culture, this gives him entrée to comment on world politics and the like.

[Beskar]

I regularly sit next to a guy called Muhammad (great guy) and he said that there were some monsters in this world, when he commented about IS and Ian Hemming beheading which was just on the news.

I don't see the problem.

[Montmorency]

You probably missed the part where he looked back into the camera and eerily murmured "...Like meeeeee!" before the scene freeze-framed on his glowing eyes and bloodcurdling grin.

Then this started to play...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[rory_20_uk]

I have long thought that the greatest problems with Islam arise not from Islam per se, but from Pre-Islamic Arabian Warlordism.

But that pre-islamic arabian warlordism appears to have been exported along with Islam - from Morocco to Indonesia all aren't exactly free and pleasant lands.