Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Implications of path length CTD discovery

  1. #1

    Default Implications of path length CTD discovery

    is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

    good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved

    Edit: Topic broken out from the Twitter discussion - Kull
    Last edited by Kull; 12-16-2013 at 23:23.

  2. #2
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    13,502

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by moonburn View Post
    is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

    good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved
    Here's the key - path lengths in excess of 127 characters will cause CTDs, no matter WHAT GAME you are playing. If you have a long paths in EB1, they'll cause crashes too. Be ruthless in your naming conventions, and this might solve problems in many areas. C:\EB2 in comparison to C:\Program Files (x86)\Medieval II Total War\ is 3 characters compared to 45. That buys you a lot of space if games and/or mods haven't been judicious in their naming conventions. We will be taking a wholesale look at this in EB2 (potentially there are many other CTDs that hitherto seemed random, but have this as their basis), but individual players can do their part by minimizing the length of their game directory names.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  3. #3

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    After many years, Siege CTD bug finally solved thanks to efforts of makanyane, bovi, & Kull. Huge! - The EB Team
    Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	celebration.jpg 
Views:	368 
Size:	121.2 KB 
ID:	11466


    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    Here's the key - path lengths in excess of 127 characters will cause CTDs, no matter WHAT GAME you are playing. If you have a long paths in EB1, they'll cause crashes too. Be ruthless in your naming conventions, and this might solve problems in many areas. C:\EB2 in comparison to C:\Program Files (x86)\Medieval II Total War\ is 3 characters compared to 45. That buys you a lot of space if games and/or mods haven't been judicious in their naming conventions. We will be taking a wholesale look at this in EB2 (potentially there are many other CTDs that hitherto seemed random, but have this as their basis), but individual players can do their part by minimizing the length of their game directory names.

    That seems way just to simple....
    My EB1 as allways been very unstable, I will surelly try that!
    Last edited by LusitanianWolf; 12-16-2013 at 19:21.



  4. #4
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    13,502

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LusitanianWolf View Post

    That seems way just to simple....
    My EB1 as allways been very unstable, I will surelly try that!
    It does, doesn't it? Several of us were skimming around the edges on this, but @bovi (huge props) made the critical connection. This isn't the thread for substantive discussions on the matter, but I want you guys to recognize how key this is, so I'll violate that rule this once:

    Quote Originally Posted by bovi View Post
    But note that the full path to the triarii officer texture (129) is above 127, which is a magic number in computing as it is the maximum number you can represent with 7 bits.
    Emphasis added. And that's it in a nutshell. Crazy simple, HUGE stability impact. I haven't felt better about where we are with EB2 in......ever.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  5. #5

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    It does, doesn't it? Several of us were skimming around the edges on this, but @bovi (huge props) made the critical connection. This isn't the thread for substantive discussions on the matter, but I want you guys to recognize how key this is, so I'll violate that rule this once:



    Emphasis added. And that's it in a nutshell. Crazy simple, HUGE stability impact. I haven't felt better about where we are with EB2 in......ever.
    Crazy indeed! Deserving of epic sized props!!!



  6. #6

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    May I share this information?
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM

  7. #7
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    13,469

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    May I share this information?
    Obviously.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Ok, this is of great use to some people who keep getting errors and such. I have always installed to more direct places so this explains why I never really get CTDs in many mods.
    Last edited by BroskiDerpman; 12-16-2013 at 22:15. Reason: Some errors.
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM

  9. #9
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    13,502

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    Ok, this is of great use to some people who keep getting errors and such. I have always installed to more direct places so this explains why I never really get CTDs in many mods.
    It should be noted that bovi is a lot more cautious with respect to how widespread this impact could be. He believes the tie is something that CA hardcoded into the Mediterranean climate, and thus the ramifications are much more limited. I think he's technically correct in the instance of this particular bug, but to me this just begs the question of how many similar hardcoded relationships are buried somewhere in the CA source code?

    If we know path lengths lead to CTDs in one area (where there is a high probability they will appear, such as in sieges), I'm willing to be they may exist elsewhere where the path-length is only occasionally an issue, and thus the resulting CTDs appear to be much more "random". And if a short path can eliminate the chance of them occurring, why not take that simple step?
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  10. #10
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Wow, amazingly nice find EB.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  11. #11
    Now sporting a classic avatar! Member fallen851's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    799

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    I am a bit confused. My EB1 is installed under: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB which is clearly less than 127 characters.

    However, let's say I try to access settlement underlays: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\settlement_plans\underlays. This is 56 characters, do extra characters (\Data\settlement_plans\underlays) beyond EB count? Seems like they do, just want to clarify.

    Also does the file the game is trying to access count as well? For instance: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\models_unit\TEXTURES\hellenistic\ebhellenistic_cavalry_hetairoi_kataphraktoi_romans_brut ii_stefan25.TGA is 138 characters, would that cause instability?

    Thanks for any and all information. Since I read this, I've shortened my install path to C:\Games\RTW\EB, but will shorten it further if files the game is trying to access count as well.




    Quote Originally Posted by moonburn View Post
    is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

    good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved

    Edit: Topic broken out from the Twitter discussion - Kull
    The quote fix resolved the end of battle crashes entirely in EB1 At least for me (and many others). The fix to open up your quotes.txt file under EB/Data/text/ and replace everything in it with this:

    Code:
    ¬ Localisation file for transition screen quotes
    ¬ Lines in brackets are not to be translated
    
    {Quote_1}
    I swear that so soon as age will permit I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome.
    {Author_1}
    Hannibal
    Then find your descr_quotes_lookup.text and replace everything inside it with this:

    Code:
    Quote_1
    Author_1
    This makes the game reference only one quote, and makes it incredibly stable when ending battles in my experience (obviously you can change the quote to whatever quote you want to use). No more waiting for the music to be done before leaving a battle, or waiting 10 second after a battle and crossing my fingers the game doesn't crash...
    Last edited by fallen851; 12-17-2013 at 17:11.
    "It's true that when it's looked at isolated, Rome II is a good game... but every time I sit down to play it, every battle, through every turn, I see how Rome I was better. Not unanimously, but ultimately." - Dr. Sane

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6eaBtzqqFA#t=1h15m33s

  12. #12

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    thanks alot to all that have helped once i get a new laptop i will try it again my kart hadast campaigns tend to never be finished due to a few cities in north afrika that keep getting me crashes

  13. #13
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    13,502

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fallen851 View Post
    I am a bit confused. My EB1 is installed under: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB which is clearly less than 127 characters.

    However, let's say I try to access settlement underlays: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\settlement_plans\underlays. This is 56 characters, do extra characters (\Data\settlement_plans\underlays) beyond EB count? Seems like they do, just want to clarify.
    Yes, it would be the full path.......

    Also does the file the game is trying to access count as well? For instance: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\models_unit\TEXTURES\hellenistic\ebhellenistic_cavalry_hetairoi_kataphraktoi_romans_brut ii_stefan25.TGA is 138 characters, would that cause instability?
    .......including the entire file name (with suffix).

    To repeat my earlier caveat, we don't KNOW that this affects games outside of M2TW, although it seems (to me anyway) to be a plausible possibility.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

    Member thankful for this post:



  14. #14
    Now sporting a classic avatar! Member fallen851's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    799

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Wow, it includes file names...

    As I pointed out, there are some really long file names in EB1.

    C:\EB it is.
    Last edited by fallen851; 12-18-2013 at 18:56.
    "It's true that when it's looked at isolated, Rome II is a good game... but every time I sit down to play it, every battle, through every turn, I see how Rome I was better. Not unanimously, but ultimately." - Dr. Sane

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6eaBtzqqFA#t=1h15m33s

  15. #15
    EBII Council Senior Member Kull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    13,502

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Bovi and I were discussing this with makanyane in the TWC thread that finally led to this breakthrough, and her theory is it's related to certain climates, specifically:

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    that's starting to sound like it's ones which didn't start out having 'winter' in descr_climates.txt
    Does RTW (and thus EB1) have the same file, and does it include some climates that have winter and others that don't? Why yes, yes it does. Again, that doesn't mean there's a definitive link. But am I changing my directory to C:\EB1? Why yes, yes I am.
    "Numidia Delenda Est!"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    I've changed mine to D:/EB (it was crazy huge before) and while I haven't played much since, at first glance it seems much more stable now (without needing to resort to other tricks I did before to avoid CTDs all the time)!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  17. #17

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Ha, and here I am playing EB via C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common....

    I feel dumb now :D

    So how do I go about this? should I just install EB to C:\EB instead of the RTW folder?
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  18. #18

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    Ha, and here I am playing EB via C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common....

    I feel dumb now :D

    So how do I go about this? should I just install EB to C:\EB instead of the RTW folder?
    No need to reinstall, just move your RTW folder to C:/ and rename it EB. And then change the destination on the Single Player and Multi Player shortcuts.


    Member thankful for this post:



  19. #19

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    does not seem to work with steam :/
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  20. #20

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Edit
    Last edited by I Am Herenow; 08-06-2017 at 17:35.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Thanks but no, I actually outsourced some of my games onto SD cards that way, but it basically only takes "Program Files (x86)" out of the equasion. It's a start but the "\Steam\SteamApps\common" persists.
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  22. #22

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Just to confirm that this simple advice makes a difference on EB1. I had been unable to move on from a battle during a turn change at Sparta. I changed the path to simply EB and the battle doesn't CTD anymore. I could also only auto-resolve battles at Tolosa previously, but can now fight battles there without CTDs.

    Such a simple thing, makes a huge difference to the stability (and enjoyment) of the game. Big, big reps to bovi

    Member thankful for this post:

    Kull 


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO