Ukraine-in-a-thread

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You mean those countries that treat their ethnically russian population like outcasts?

http://m.in.rbth.com/world/2013/04/0...ers_23433.html



The US should bomb them, no taxation without representation!

That's rubbish.

Latvia and Estonia granted citizenship to anyone who could speak Latvian or Estonian and show a grasp of the country's history.

That reminds me - that anecdote I told earlier was about Latvia, not Lithuania.

How did that guy's wife get a Latvian passport when her mother couldn't? She went to a Latvian university before independence and knew Latvian.

Btw - she was a school teacher and this English idiot was bemoaning the fact that, post independence, the Russians teachers in Latvia had to teach in Russian!.

Again - remember that many of these people were first-generation immigrants.

Tell me - can I get a German passport without being able to speak a word of German?

[Crazed Rabbit]

And Ukraine is invaded? Does the Russian Flag float on Minsk? Does Russia built bases on Ukrainian soil? Get a grip, no one wants Ukraine, sorry, nor EU, USA (if they have to pay for it) or Russia.

So, Russian tanks driven by Russian soldiers crossing the border doesn't count as an invasion? Wow.

It is also about the right of the Donestk Republic to self-determination

So any armed group of men backed by a hostile foreign power taking over a town suddenly means it's a 'republic' and they're exercising their 'right to self determination'? Are you serious? Is this some joke? You're supporting the man who made it illegal to talk about self-determination for parts of Russia.

Anyways, I read here ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29007631 ) that the EU threatens more sanctions if Russia doesn't stop invading Ukraine - in a week. Good grief.

We should pull out of Nato, pull our bases out of Europe and let them face the Russian bear on their own. Maybe a jolt of fear that they might be in danger, and not some 'out of the way' country they don't actually care about, could galvanize them into action. Because it seems like all their promises are worth less than the paper they're printed on.

CR

[Brenus]

“So, Russian tanks driven by Russian soldiers crossing the border doesn't count as an invasion?” No, that is an incursion as they went back. A little bit similar of air strikes, helping the ones you support…

“We should pull out of Nato, pull our bases out of Europe and let them face the Russian bear on their own.” Agree, you should do that.

[rory_20_uk]

So... it's an invasion if you win, merely an incursion if you loose.

Rightful leaders if you like them, puppets if you don't

Legal if you're doing it, illegal if you're not (or have finished doing it and so who cares?)

Minority whose views must be respected in other people's countries, dissident extremist terrorists whose views must be crushed in your own.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Anyways, I read here ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29007631 ) that the EU threatens more sanctions if Russia doesn't stop invading Ukraine - in a week. Good grief.

Obama supports it - because we don't want war, and neither do you.

We should pull out of Nato, pull our bases out of Europe and let them face the Russian bear on their own. Maybe a jolt of fear that they might be in danger, and not some 'out of the way' country they don't actually care about, could galvanize them into action. Because it seems like all their promises are worth less than the paper they're printed on.

This is why NATO exists, because you guys have a greater tendency to being Craven than we do.

Blow up some rag-heads with cruise missiles? Sure!

Tank war in Europe? Wo man! We didn't sign up for that!

[Hax]

You mean those countries that treat their ethnically russian population like outcasts?

http://m.in.rbth.com/world/2013/04/0...ers_23433.html

Yeah, because the Russian minority is one large homogenous group.

At Tartu University, I met a girl from Latvia who was of Russian descent (her grandfather being an old believer) and we had a discussion about the situation of Russophones in Latvia (which is worse than in Estonia). It's definitely not great, but it's not as terrible as that article makes it out to be.

Which brings me to the following: I checked the background of this "Russia and India Report", which is apparently a part of a newspaper called "Russia Beyond the Headlines", which is sponsored by Rossiskiya Gazeta, which is the Russian government's newspaper. Draw your own conclusions.

EDIT: Besides Husar, come on, what do you really know about the Baltic states?

[Viking]

Apparently, The Simpsons what is now happening in Ukraine.

[Gilrandir]

A perfectly good case can be made that eastern Ukraine (and indeed all Ukraine) was historically part of the Russian nation. Eg, the Kievan Rus - indeed Kiev was at one time the capital of all the Rus territories.

Equally, there are perfectly good precedents for a distinct Ukrainian nationhood - eg, the independence wars of the Cossacks against Poland-Lithuania.

My point is not to say Ukraine is Russian - my point is that the Ukrainian nationalists do not have a monopoly on history or nationhood.

Historically Ukraine was part of Kyivan Rus, then Rzeczpospolita, then part of it was included into the Russian Empire, part into Austro-Hungary and part was owned by Crimean khanate. So why don't others put forward the claims as Russia does?
As for Ukrainian nationalists writing a history of Ukraine (especially Eastern), I would like to hear a sober opinion that you trust and consider non-nationalistic which would substantiate the existence of a separate Eastern-Ukrainian (or Novorossian, if you prefer) nation, nationality, ethnicity, sub-ethnicity and so on.

Was Yanucovych democratically elected in a Ukraine-wide election? Did not his election represent the wishes of a majority of Ukrainians?

If you feel that people from the east of your country cannot represent you, then that says to me that you do not see Ukraine as a sufficiently homogeneous and integrated unit to function as a modern democratic nation. Maybe if the east was to separate you could get a Western-Ukrainian government which you might feel could represent you better.

Can you imagine, for instance, the US government which consists exclusively of Californians or Alaskans? Or the Brithish one consisting only of Yorkshireans? But such approach has been practised in Ukraine for 4 years. It is not about homogeneity of the nation, but about the choice of the government.

OK - this very year the unelected revolutionary parliament voted to overturn a law that gave the Russian language, as the language of much of Eastern Ukraine/Crimea, official status. The message is clear - Russian speakers are not welcome as Ukrainian citizens.

You have had your answer as to the unelected and revolutionary, I guess. As for the language law it was vetoed by the acting president and repealed by the parliament within a few days. Somehow other Russian-speaking areas felt (and still feel) not threatened in this and in all other aspects. It took Russia to let Donbas be scared into frenzy and be reaping the consequences.

“Brenus was the one who said that Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine. So much for his abrasive powers of observation and excruciating skills of prediction.” And Ukraine is invaded? Does the Russian Flag float on Minsk?

I think there is Byelorussian flag flying over Minsk, but who knows, perhaps you speak words of ill omen.

Get a grip, no one wants Ukraine, sorry, nor EU, USA (if they have to pay for it) or Russia. So my theory is still valid: as soon as actual Ukrainian Power is near to win, small reinforcement and hoops, all around again.
The fact is you are so obsess by a big PLAN and EVIL Putin that you can’t even envisage that, like the West, he reacts and acts on day by day. He might decide to invade now, if NATO comes with Tanks (pre-emptive strikes, someone?). I don’t think he will, as he doesn’t need Ukraine, he needs a buffer. This can be obtained either by Federalism (political solution) or permanent guerrilla/unrest.

I heard information that Russian passports are being distrubuted in Donetsk. Moreover, your theory doesn't take into account the situation in Crimea. It is reported to experience lack of food stuffs (most notably dairy products) which become too expensive when transported by ferry from Kuban by way of Kerch.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...f/1315600.html
Perhaps you don't know about the problems this ferry is experiencing due to the amount of people it is used by.
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine.../26541505.html
This, and Russian offensive in the south makes one think Putin is adapting his former strategy (or indeed following plan B) and wants to have a land bridge joining Crimea with Russia and pusining it further to Transdniestria, if possible.

But the same token, you might now take back your claim that Russian troops were involved at the early stage, as it is now clear what happen when they are engaged… Debacle for Ukrainian Armed Forces/Militias…

Russian troops had been engaged on a small case chiefly as GRU special assignment units, now it comes to regular army including conscipts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...aine-not-much/
Besides, how do you interpret the latest successful offensive of the separatists? People who were being beaten down suddenly learned how to fight and Russians have nothing to do it.

Just come back from holidays, and still the same...

You said the thread was dead some 20 pages back. Does it the putrid smell of it that attracts you?

You mean those countries that treat their ethnically russian population like outcasts?

If they are such despicable outcasts, why don't they leave those nazi countries? I'll tell you why - because they are better off where they are. Leaving for needy, albeit homelike Russia doesn't seem an option to them. When it comes to full stomach, they are ready to be as outcast as it might be.

[Gilrandir]

No war will happen, as you need some kind of pretext to attack Russia, and more than what was presented.

For Ukraine the war is already there.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Obama supports it - because we don't want war, and neither do you.

I don't want war; I just support strong sanctions, applied immediately, not yet another pitiful warning of a strong response yet to come if Russia continues invading a sovereign nation.

No, that is an incursion as they went back.

So what you're saying is the Russian flag could be waving over Kiev but you'd still be denying it's an invasion, and groping for some rhetorical way to deny reality.

CR

[Beskar]

At Tartu University, I met a girl from Latvia who was of Russian descent (her grandfather being an old believer) and we had a discussion about the situation of Russophones in Latvia (which is worse than in Estonia). It's definitely not great, but it's not as terrible as that article makes it out to be.

Latvians I spoke to, complained a lot about the Russian minority wanting to re-oppress them, refusing to speak anything but Russian, and see themselves being above the law. When I was over there, even had a random Russian curse at me in English for simply being English, I looked a little confused and they said "Don't mind her, that is a Russian, always like that".

[Hax]

Latvians I spoke to, complained a lot about the Russian minority wanting to re-oppress them, refusing to speak anything but Russian, and see themselves being above the law.

There is quite a bit of resentment from both sides towards eachother, mainly because there is that part of the Latvian population that intrinsically (and wrongly) relates Russophones with the Soviet Union, even those whose heritage stems back to pre-Soviet times (to either the exile of the Old Believers, or the migration period as a result of Russification policies in the 19th century).

In any case, the situation is rather complicated. I personally have met plenty of Latvians who have no trouble with any Russians living in Latvia, and don't hold them in any way accountable for the actions committed by the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire. Then again, there is still quite a bit of animosity, but I'm generally quite optimistic for the future. In Estonia, the number of bilingual Estonian-Russian speakers seems to be growing, and generally I find that among the younger population, there isn't really that much animosity towards Russian Estonians. I've even found that many people actually wish they spoke Russian better, so when Russians are unable to communicate with native Estonian speakers, it's usually not out of spite, but simply because many young Estonians are incapable of conversing in Russian. Interestingly, in my experience, when the older Latvian and Estonian generations meet, they usually communicate in Russian.

EDIT: where did you go to in Latvia?

[Kagemusha]

Apparently Ukraine has lost Novoazovsk and also Luhansk airport is now in the hands of the separatist.

What we know from various sources is that at the end of the last week column of 100 or so armoured vehicles entered Ukraine from Russia. Those seem to include some upgraded T-72 MBT´s. Such force is akin to 1-2 Mech Battalions with supporting elements. Apparently the opponent who took Luhansk airport today from the Ukrainian government para´s was heavily armoured according to them, so it could be that one part of the force took Novoazovsk and is aiming next to Mariupol, while the second part of the force is operating near Luhansk, helping the other separatist forces to push back the forces of the Ukrainian government.

I am positive that these new forces are indeed from Russia, what i am not sure of is if they are indeed Russian army troops. My bet is rather that they are "volunteers" armed and trained at Rostov, with Russian equipment and quite likely with Russian "Instructors". If this force would have been an armoured task force made of elements of Russian Motor rifle Brigade. We would have witnessed quite more likely T-90´s and BMP-3´s. Also the lack of Russian air operations suggests that the current force is not part of Russian regular forces and thus my guess is that the force is deployed to help the separatist forces to keep the conflict going rather then a serious effort to invade Ukraine.

In any case. I am quite sure that Moscow wants the bolstered separatist force to create a land connection to Crimea. Maybe Kremlin has evaluated that the Maidan government was getting the upper hand in the conflict and they wanted to even the odds back to their advantage.

[Husar]

That's rubbish.

Latvia and Estonia granted citizenship to anyone who could speak Latvian or Estonian and show a grasp of the country's history.

That reminds me - that anecdote I told earlier was about Latvia, not Lithuania.

How did that guy's wife get a Latvian passport when her mother couldn't? She went to a Latvian university before independence and knew Latvian.

Btw - she was a school teacher and this English idiot was bemoaning the fact that, post independence, the Russians teachers in Latvia had to teach in Russian!.

Again - remember that many of these people were first-generation immigrants.

Tell me - can I get a German passport without being able to speak a word of German?

It's not about not speaking a word, the requirements were artificially set extremely high to keep the ethnic russians from getting citizenship. They had to amend it when they joined the EU because it was deemed too draconian but apparently the standard is still relatively high.

And then it also doesn't really help if they prevent you from learning the language in the first place:

http://www.minorityrights.org/2447/e.../russians.html

Non-Estonians, especially Russians, allege occupational, salary and housing discrimination because of Estonian language requirements. Those who desire language instruction confront problems stemming from an insufficient number of qualified teachers, lack of funds, poor educational infrastructure and an examination process which some allege is arbitrary.

So... it's an invasion if you win, merely an incursion if you loose.

Rightful leaders if you like them, puppets if you don't

Legal if you're doing it, illegal if you're not (or have finished doing it and so who cares?)

Minority whose views must be respected in other people's countries, dissident extremist terrorists whose views must be crushed in your own.

Yes, that's the usual western way of arguing and now we're mad that Putin has learned how to do it, just as our usual MO would suggest:

It's defending freedom and democracy when Bush/Obama does it, it's a filthy heinous dictator lie/crime when Putin does it.

[Gilrandir]

I don't want war; I just support strong sanctions, applied immediately, not yet another pitiful warning of a strong response yet to come if Russia continues invading a sovereign nation.

I'm not a specialist in this sphere (perhaps there are some who will correct me), but I heard that if the West really wanted to hurt Russia it should deny it the system called "short money" or something like that. It would mean that Russian banks can't take any short-term (one day) loans or credits which would have the Russian bank system lying down within a few days.

Also the lack of Russian air operations suggests that the current force is not part of Russian regular forces and thus my guess is that the force is deployed to help the separatist forces to keep the conflict going rather then a serious effort to invade Ukraine.

Yesterday Russian aircraft attacked Ukrainian battalion Aidar's positions in Luhansk region. I think Russia is getting warmer on it.
If you want a quick update on the latest developments I refer you to the link offered by Viking.
http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/23-of-au...939893&zoom=10
It (beside the map) has a newsband which is pretty accurate and is corroborated by other sources I get.

[rory_20_uk]

Given that the USSR tried to destroy the culture of Estonia and its fellows, I'm not surprised they're not thrilled about having masses of people who want their culture to be run by another one. In the UK we are slowly realising that not everybody is lovely and wants to be integrated, and perhaps being able to speak the language before giving passports isn't that bad an idea...

Yes, that's the usual western way of arguing and now we're mad that Putin has learned how to do it, just as our usual MO would suggest:

It's defending freedom and democracy when Bush/Obama does it, it's a filthy heinous dictator lie/crime when Putin does it.

Tom Lehrer - send the Marines? T'was ever thus.

So, we all do it and the only things that really matter is the outcome wanted and the perceived risk to get it. Russia did a great job in the Crimea, and unsurprisingly wants more.

Russia definately wants unrest to continue. And might even think that unrest where all the Nationalist loons can go to die is no bad thing. But taking ownership of the area would land them with a load of problems and little gain.

[Pannonian]

It's not about not speaking a word, the requirements were artificially set extremely high to keep the ethnic russians from getting citizenship. They had to amend it when they joined the EU because it was deemed too draconian but apparently the standard is still relatively high.

And then it also doesn't really help if they prevent you from learning the language in the first place:

http://www.minorityrights.org/2447/e.../russians.html

Why can't they just do what the other Europeans do, and speak English?

[Hax]

It's not about not speaking a word, the requirements were artificially set extremely high to keep the ethnic russians from getting citizenship. They had to amend it when they joined the EU because it was deemed too draconian but apparently the standard is still relatively high.

And then it also doesn't really help if they prevent you from learning the language in the first place:

http://www.minorityrights.org/2447/e.../russians.html

Crock.

The Estonian government has been putting measures in place that allows Estonian Russians to go to Russian-language schools, which are actually of really high quality: Tallinn's and Narva's Humanitarian Gymnasiums were rated 7th and 9th respectively, both Russian schools.

Additionally, especially on the digital front, there has been a tremendous increase in studying possibilities for Russians who want to learn Estonian. The website keeleklikk.ee, which is of excellent quality, offers 16 Estonian language courses in Russian (and is currently expanding and offering en English translation).

I'm obviously less aware of the situation in Latvia and Lithuania, so I'm less capable of commenting on that, but when it comes to Estonia, I can assure you that the government has been taking big steps towards integrating Russians into Estonian society, as long as they are willing to integrat-e. I spoke to an Estonian of Russian origins on Facebook today, and she mentioned that "those who are willing to integrate, usually do" and "those who identify as Russian-Russian can go [expletive deleted] themselves", and she was raised in a Russophone environment until she was like 10, so yeah.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Why can't they just do what the other Europeans do, and speak English?

Pohhui, kõik peavad pigem eesti keelt räägima.

I just remembered that this summer the Estonian minister for Education, Jevgeni Ossonovski, took an Estonian language exam himself, in order to see if it was too difficult for foreigners to take. He scored 99%. As I said earlier, draw your own conclusions.

[Husar]

Crock.

The Estonian government has been putting measures in place that allows Estonian Russians to go to Russian-language schools, which are actually of really high quality: Tallinn's and Narva's Humanitarian Gymnasiums were rated 7th and 9th respectively, both Russian schools.

Additionally, especially on the digital front, there has been a tremendous increase in studying possibilities for Russians who want to learn Estonian. The website keeleklikk.ee, which is of excellent quality, offers 16 Estonian language courses in Russian (and is currently expanding and offering en English translation).

I'm obviously less aware of the situation in Latvia and Lithuania, so I'm less capable of commenting on that, but when it comes to Estonia, I can assure you that the government has been taking big steps towards integrating Russians into Estonian society, as long as they are willing to integrat-e. I spoke to an Estonian of Russian origins on Facebook today, and she mentioned that "those who are willing to integrate, usually do" and "those who identify as Russian-Russian can go [expletive deleted] themselves", and she was raised in a Russophone environment until she was like 10, so yeah.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Russian schools that teach in Russian don't help a lot with giving them voting rights and websites with addresses that noone can spell don't help older people either. Your argument is entirely based on your study abroad experience in that country and you are biased as usual. If talking to single people about an issue counts for anything, then the West has been financing the entire Maidan movement because I talked to someone with a relevant background and she told me that.

[Hax]

Russian schools that teach in Russian don't help a lot with giving them voting rights and websites with addresses that noone can spell don't help older people either.

I didn't study abroad in Estonia, I lived there for four months, two in the winter, and two in the summer.

And you didn't really pay attention: these gymnasiums are required by law to teach students Estonian. In Russian! Isn't that amazing?

As for voting rights: where do you get the idea that Russians are not allowed to vote? There is the issue of there being Russians who don't have a passport, but I've never denied that this is a serious problem. However, those Russians that hold Estonian passports are treated as Estonian citizens under Estonian law.

Nobody is saying that there aren't serious problems when it comes to the situation of Russians in the Baltic states, but you're giving off this image that Russians are on the verge of actively being persecuted, which is not true.

[...]you are biased as usual. If talking to single people about an issue counts for anything

Yeah, no, my ex-girlfriend's father is a sociology professor at Tartu University, who has actually worked a lot on issues like this. Also, he supports Russian being made an official language. So how's that for your bias?

As for my sources, they're based on Estonian-language newspapers, private communication with actual Russian Estonians, and actually having studied the history of Estonia in university.

What are yours?

[Brenus]

“Does it the putrid smell of it that attracts you?” Yeap :“So much for his abrasive powers of observation and excruciating skills of prediction.” Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Husar]

There is the issue of there being Russians who don't have a passport, but I've never denied that this is a serious problem.

That's what I said, what are you arguing about then?

Nobody is saying that there aren't serious problems when it comes to the situation of Russians in the Baltic states, but you're giving off this image that Russians are on the verge of actively being persecuted, which is not true.

I never mentioned or implied persecution, I just mentioned that the Baltic states are not as glorious as you make them out to be.

[Beskar]

EDIT: where did you go to in Latvia?

Riga, had my new years there, was dating a latvian at the time. This was new Years of.. 2009? or 2010 though.

There didn't seem any 'real' resentment, I think i over blew it in my description. But it seemed that the Russians were troublemakers but they qualified it with "Not were all like that" and such, apparently the highest crime-rate was in the Russian dominated areas, which sounds like a statistic an American says about 'black people'. They were pro-European too, so as you said, they might hold some grudge against the USSR and those days in the past.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Given that the USSR tried to destroy the culture of Estonia and its fellows, I'm not surprised they're not thrilled about having masses of people who want their culture to be run by another one. In the UK we are slowly realising that not everybody is lovely and wants to be integrated, and perhaps being able to speak the language before giving passports isn't that bad an idea...



Tom Lehrer - send the Marines? T'was ever thus.

So, we all do it and the only things that really matter is the outcome wanted and the perceived risk to get it. Russia did a great job in the Crimea, and unsurprisingly wants more.

Russia definately wants unrest to continue. And might even think that unrest where all the Nationalist loons can go to die is no bad thing. But taking ownership of the area would land them with a load of problems and little gain.

I think that we can't make assumptions based on Western cost/benefit concepts.

You're measuring the "risk" inherent in annexing more of Ukraine based on an analysis of its economic usefulness.

I think Putin is more concerned with the loss of face if Russians die without territorial gain, and his own internal map of Russia that differs from the one in an atlas - it's bigger.

[Sarmatian]

"those who are willing to integrate, usually do" and "those who identify as Russian-Russian can go [expletive deleted] themselves", and she was raised in a Russophone environment until she was like 10, so yeah.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The "assimilate or sod off" is quite contrary to the what would be a democratic and civilized way of dealing with it. Serbia was bombed 15 years ago for applying the same standard to Albanians.

Maybe the situation is getting better now, I do believe it is, but the fact is Baltic states and Poland created oppressive laws which sole purpose was to exclude Russians living there from having any say, and the idea that it somehow justified because of past oppression is even more ludicrous.

[rory_20_uk]

The "assimilate or sod off" is quite contrary to the what would be a democratic and civilized way of dealing with it. Serbia was bombed 15 years ago for applying the same standard to Albanians.

Maybe the situation is getting better now, I do believe it is, but the fact is Baltic states and Poland created oppressive laws which sole purpose was to exclude Russians living there from having any say, and the idea that it somehow justified because of past oppression is even more ludicrous.

You were pro Russian they are anti-Russian. We were also doing the whole "be nice to Muslims and they'll be nice to us" phase.

Do you really think that the West is fair?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm getting pretty tired of being right. Between what's about to happen in Iraq/Syria, and what's about to happen in Ukraine, people need to be paying attention. Don't forget about Chinese Air Defense Zone either. The possibility of a conventional war between Nuclear Powers, while totally absurd, seems to be what will happen shortly, and should such a war break out the entire world will try to take sides and wrangle the most out of it. The world may finally be numb to the threat of Nuclear War, assuming that no state has the cojones to do such a thing. Putin may even think he can engage the west in an actual war without nukes being used. I'd recommend people stop being partisan and recognize the problem: There's a bloc out there trying to change the status quo in a big way, and Putin is the muscle at the moment. If things continue to escalate, we may find out who the other players are in a bad way.

Keep an eye on the news, I suppose.

My point was that his "prediction" seemed to be like predicting that war was coming in April of 1939 as Germany was invading Czechoslovakia and going past the Munich appeasement.

This was has already engulfed Ukraine.

[Shaka_Khan]

I know a Russian exchange student who used to work part time at a cafe. She returned to Russia last month. I went to that cafe to get a cheap sandwich during lunch breaks from work. I didn't tell her my opinion on the Ukrainian crisis. Before she left, she explained to me that Crimea was a popular tourist spot for the Russians during the Soviet era. Nikita Khruschev, who lived in Ukraine during his early years, gave Crimea to Ukraine. The exchange student was nice and the customers were sad to see her leave. I don't know how many Russians she represents, but I get the feeling that a significant number of Russians support the annexation of Crimea.

She is quite lively at times. She teached me some Russian words and grammar. When I forgot to pronounce the Russian word for university in the Russian way (I started the sound with yu instead of oo), she asked, "excuse me?" I said, "oh, oo-nee-ve-rirseetet....." Before I could finish the sentence, she yelled, "OO-NEE-VE-RIRSEETET!" She startled everyone in the cafe.

[a completely inoffensive name]

When the USSR fell, we should have taken advantage and just bought up all the nukes. Odd how not one think tank had the foresight to think that maybe, just maybe, Russia wouldn't turn into a capitalist paradise we could all be friends with.

[Sarmatian]

You were pro Russian they are anti-Russian. We were also doing the whole "be nice to Muslims and they'll be nice to us" phase.

Do you really think that the West is fair?

I don't think anyone's fair. I'm mostly arguing with those who do think the West is fair and, by that definition, right.

When the USSR fell, we should have taken advantage and just bought up all the nukes. Odd how not one think tank had the foresight to think that maybe, just maybe, Russia wouldn't turn into a capitalist paradise we could all be friends with.

Yes, 'cause they would have sold them just like that.