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Thread: Military peaks of major powers

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Military peaks of major powers

    A spin off from a Backroom discussion, which may be better discussed or answered here. What were the peaks of their respective armies of major powers in history? I'll start with the ones I nominated. Peaks are relative to their era.

    Russia: Manchurian campaign, 1945
    US: Gulf War 1, 1991
    Britain: Hundred days, 1918
    Germany: Barbarossa, 1941

    Others:
    France: Napoleonic wars?
    Mongolia: Mongke's reign?

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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    A spin off from a Backroom discussion, which may be better discussed or answered here. What were the peaks of their respective armies of major powers in history? I'll start with the ones I nominated. Peaks are relative to their era.

    Russia: Manchurian campaign, 1945
    US: Gulf War 1, 1991
    Britain: Hundred days, 1918
    Germany: Barbarossa, 1941

    Others:
    France: Napoleonic wars?
    Mongolia: Mongke's reign?
    Mongolia would have to be Genghis Khan era... Too much squabbling afterwards.
    Britain should probably be during red coats times, no?

    I nominate:

    Sweden: Karl the XII

    Macedonia: Alexander the Great (doh!)

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    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Modern day Macedonia has nothing to do with classical Makedon. Modern day Macedonia has been a Bulgarian province for centuries. The modern language is Bulgarian with a few Serbian words thrown in for colour. But I digress.

    When we say peak, we mean power relative to other peoples/nations of the time, right? Because it's hard to compare feudal Russia with modern day nuclear armed Russia directly.

    England I would say was at its peak during Victorian times, when they ruled the seas and colonized the whole world.
    Germany: World War 2
    France: Napoleon
    Russia: towards the end of the cold war, but they are not much worse off now
    Bulgaria: the rule of Simeon 1. Not only was our territory reaching out to three seas, but we also besieged Constantinople.
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    A spin off from a Backroom discussion, which may be better discussed or answered here. What were the peaks of their respective armies of major powers in history? I'll start with the ones I nominated. Peaks are relative to their era.

    Russia: Manchurian campaign, 1945
    US: Gulf War 1, 1991
    Britain: Hundred days, 1918
    Germany: Barbarossa, 1941

    Others:
    France: Napoleonic wars?
    Mongolia: Mongke's reign?
    Germany was at high peaks in 1942 it was the last year of their successions.
    Russia better say in 1960s.
    France, Definitely in Napoleon wars.
    Persians and Iranians in General (with all its ethnics and tribes) at times of Darius(h) The Great.
    Also Ottomon Empire at times of Sultan Suleyman The magnificent.
    but i think Mongolians were the largest empire ever existed in history then Russia. but Mongolians had many Civilized and wealthy conquered lands which russia did not.

    from 1800s to 1917-1939 Great Britain.

    and now........Definitely US of A !!
    Last edited by Hamburger; 03-17-2014 at 15:27.

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    To illustrate what I mean, I'll use the British Army as an example. During Victorian times, British forces kept hold of a vast empire, but they were rarely confronted with challenging opponents, and in comparison with the continent's conscripts, the British Army was tiny. The quality was high, but the equipment wasn't particularly above average, and the quality existed only in very small, almost insignificant numbers. By the time of the Hundred Days in 1918, the British and Commonwealth Army had been expanded to bear comparison with any continental power, it was the most technologically advanced in the world and plentifully equipped, and doctrine had caught up with tech advances to effectively make use of combined arms. At no other time in history was the British Army at least comparable across the board with the best and the strongest that the world had to offer.

    In that way, I judged the German Army of Barbarossa to be the peak of its military, as it had a tech-doctrinal lead in the world, had plenty of numbers and was well-equipped, and its edge had not yet been blunted by its encounter with the Soviets.

    For the Russians, after vanquishing the Germans, no other country was yet as adept at operational manoeuvres.

    For the Mongols, Mongke's armies still had the nomadic edge, but with added sedentary expertise that Genghis didn't have.

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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamburger View Post
    Germany was at high peaks in 1942 it was the last year of their successions.
    Russia better say in 1960s.
    France, Definitely in Napoleon wars.
    Persians and Iranians in General (with all its ethnics and tribes) at times of Darius(h) The Great.
    Also Ottomon Empire at times of Sultan Suleyman The magnificent.
    but i think Mongolians were the largest empire ever existed in history then Russia. but Mongolians had many Civilized and wealthy conquered lands which russia did not.

    from 1800s to 1917-1939 Great Britain.

    and now........Definitely US of A !!
    I am low on time, so I'll just answer the bolded part.

    Strenght must be in comparison to ones enemies, hence the Blitz must have been Germany's high point in time. Eben Emael comes to mind. So did smashing France and the English army.

    So yeah, WWII era, def for Germany the earlier years, whereas for Soviet/Russia the later years. No?

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    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    I'd be inclined to say that the peak of Persia's military power was actually during the Safavid Empire, when the firsts serious steps were undertaken towards a fully professional army, particularly under Abbas I.
    This space intentionally left blank.

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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    There is something to be said for the US war machine in the closing days of WW2 and also around the time of the surge in Iraq (especially in comparison to the gulf war military). The Clinton cuts were already beginning by the time of the first Gulf War. In comparison the US military at the time of the Surge still had a lot of money and hardware to play around with and a battle hardened force is a big deal especially when your rivals modern fighting forces have little to no experience.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    the peak of German military power was right after Masurian Lakes. The NAZIs were basically Empire fanboys in slicker coats
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    Member Member Rhun ap Beli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    I would have to go with the Achaemenid Empire (Persian) that peaked under Xerxes I in 500 BC and has been called the "First World Empire" by University of Cambridge historian Tom Holland in his book that I read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Persian-Fire.../dp/0349117179

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Germany: Barbarossa, 1941
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. The military was rather mediocre, it was the weakness of the other powers that made it look strong. In 1943-44 it may have actually been stronger in absolute terms but the enemies had grown even stronger than that.
    The entire German navy that was sunk in Scapa Flow was also gone in WW2, I'm not sure whether a few cruisers and battleships that mostly sat in some port or ran away from the Royal Navy made up for having an actual navy. The submarines were pesky and scary to unarmed ships but didn't really stop anything other than the lives of innocent sailors.

    I think in 1985-1990 the Bundeswehr was also really strong and given the technology could have easily stomped the Wehrmacht of 1941 that relied on tanks with peashooters and horses. The USSR might have been stronger at the time but the Bundeswehr had a huge tank and mechanized force, just consider that most of the Leopard 2 tanks that all the European countries have nowadays were once part of the Bundeswehr's cold war tank forces. That's some 3000-4000 tanks (not counting other older tanks) compared to the 200-400 we have now.

    If you mean a time where the German Army could overpower most of its neighbors then maybe that was never the case and you could replace us with Israel who have so far always had the upper hand over their neighbors and are keeping the entire region in check.

    I assume Japan somewhere during WW2 was really strong. Not sure about today as they have no army, only a police with tanks and aircraft carriers.

    Spain probably reached its military peak somewhere in the 1600s or 1700s, I don't think they reached that kind of military importance or relative army power to population again. Their modern navy might sink the armada but in relative terms it probably costs a fraction compared to the country's general size.


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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    I did specify that the peaks are judged in comparison with their peers. The German military during Barbarossa had reached an operational fluency that no other military in the world could match. The fact that they continued to improve didn't matter, as every other country learned from the early years and improved their military as well, reducing the practical lead the Germans had.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military peaks of major powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    the peak of German military power was right after Masurian Lakes. The NAZIs were basically Empire fanboys in slicker coats
    Good choice, but I'd personally point to the short time between the treaty of Brest-Litovsk and the spring offensive of 1918.

    The battles of Tannenberg and the Mansurian lakes were impressive victories, but the effect was only that it gave Germany respite from the Russians. In hindsight it's clear that Germany's plan of rushing to Paris wasn't going to work and that a long war on both fronts was inevitable.

    On the other hand, peace with the Russians/Bolshewiks gave the Germans free reign to concentrate entirely on the western front. Their spring offensive achieved breakthrough on a scale that was unprecedented on the western front. They couldn't capitalize on their succes because they were too thin-spread and undersupplied to resist the imminent counteroffensive, which would be joined by a huge American force a short while after.

    EDIT: now that I think of it more, I'm not sure I agree with what I wrote. Theoretically at the time the German army was at its peak, with huge manpower and having perfected warfare with the caveat that they had no capable tanks. On the other hand, the fact that the German economy at the time was unable to sustain the war effort makes the whole thing a paper tiger.
    Last edited by Kralizec; 08-19-2014 at 20:45.

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