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  1. #31
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Yeah, Litvinenko.

    That case actually proves just how unsubstantiated anti-Putin hysteria has become. Factually, we don't know anything of the case. British authorities didn't release any information to anyone, including close members of his family. People are basically guessing, there are dozens of theories, but somehow the press and the political establishment is certain that he was killed on the explicit orders of Putin. Not just "someone from FSB", but Putin himself, and Putin was one of the few persons who didn't really have anything to gain. Litvinenko has been in Britain for 7 years, he wrote two books badmouthing Putin already, he shared what he knew.... so what was the point of killing him?

  2. #32
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Putin likes to show us how evil he is and then try to hide and deny it.
    Should be obvious, all supervillains like to show off.


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  3. #33
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Yeah, Litvinenko.

    That case actually proves just how unsubstantiated anti-Putin hysteria has become. Factually, we don't know anything of the case. British authorities didn't release any information to anyone, including close members of his family. People are basically guessing, there are dozens of theories, but somehow the press and the political establishment is certain that he was killed on the explicit orders of Putin. Not just "someone from FSB", but Putin himself, and Putin was one of the few persons who didn't really have anything to gain. Litvinenko has been in Britain for 7 years, he wrote two books badmouthing Putin already, he shared what he knew.... so what was the point of killing him?
    the list of those killed vindictively after they had already blown the whistle or whatever is not that short
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    the list of those killed vindictively after they had already blown the whistle or whatever is not that short” By Putin, or in general?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
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  5. #35
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    the list of those killed vindictively after they had already blown the whistle or whatever is not that short
    It is a theory, one of many. It could be true, but something else may be true even easier.

    Instead of thinking of huge conspiracies, doesn't the theory that several of them were smuggling polonium make much more sense?

  6. #36
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    the list of those killed vindictively after they had already blown the whistle or whatever is not that short” By Putin, or in general?
    Meant as a general comment. I am not aware of any confirmed particulars regarding Putin. Russian history is replete with such episodes though, certainly from Ivan if not before.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  7. #37
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Meant as a general comment. I am not aware of any confirmed particulars regarding Putin. Russian history is replete with such episodes though, certainly from Ivan if not before.
    Barring examples of quartering people for disobeying their divinely ordained rulers in the middle ages, there really aren't.

    If the idea was to send a message, why use Polonium? Supposedly, Polonium is untraceable and Russian agents weren't aware that some new piece of technology in the west can detect Polonium. If you want to send a message to would-be traitors, you generally don't want it to look like the traitor died a natural death.

    If the idea was just to exact revenge on him for badmouthing Putin... Well, that's a really thin argument. Thousands of people badmouthed him. Litvinenko was generally unknown to the wider public. Why choose him over everybody else and divert massive amount of attention to him? Seven years after he fled? It doesn't really make sense.

    Since he already blew the whistle, there was also no reason to kill him. The deed's been done. Nothing more to gain except additional bad rep.

    It's all pretty thin, and since there's absolutely zero evidence linking this to Putin and since British police didn't release any serious information, this is really tinfoil hat territory.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 03-31-2014 at 16:17.

  8. #38
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    If you don't accept Litvinenko, here is a nice list for you.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  9. #39
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    If you don't accept Litvinenko, here is a nice list for you.
    Journalists killed in Russia, not by Russia or by Putin.

    While it is a sad state of affairs, proving Russia still has a long way to go when it comes to freedom of the press, there's no evidence linking Putin to any of these murders. There are thousands of journalists in Russia and many more abroad who attack him everyday and they are still alive. Just because someone badmouthed Putin or Russian policy is no proof that Putin ordered a hit.

  10. #40
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Journalists killed in Russia, not by Russia or by Putin.

    While it is a sad state of affairs, proving Russia still has a long way to go when it comes to freedom of the press, there's no evidence linking Putin to any of these murders. There are thousands of journalists in Russia and many more abroad who attack him everyday and they are still alive. Just because someone badmouthed Putin or Russian policy is no proof that Putin ordered a hit.
    Most of them were probably whacked by random oligarch and provincial kings, but that doesn't change the fact that Putin, as head of state, is responsible for their deaths.


    Had he actually taken action against it, he would appear in a better light. Instead, when questioned about the death of one of them, he coldly replied that "her influence on Russia was minimal".
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  11. #41
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Barring examples of quartering people for disobeying their divinely ordained rulers in the middle ages, there really aren't.

    If the idea was to send a message, why use Polonium? Supposedly, Polonium is untraceable and Russian agents weren't aware that some new piece of technology in the west can detect Polonium. If you want to send a message to would-be traitors, you generally don't want it to look like the traitor died a natural death.

    If the idea was just to exact revenge on him for badmouthing Putin... Well, that's a really thin argument. Thousands of people badmouthed him. Litvinenko was generally unknown to the wider public. Why choose him over everybody else and divert massive amount of attention to him? Seven years after he fled? It doesn't really make sense.

    Since he already blew the whistle, there was also no reason to kill him. The deed's been done. Nothing more to gain except additional bad rep.

    It's all pretty thin, and since there's absolutely zero evidence linking this to Putin and since British police didn't release any serious information, this is really tinfoil hat territory.
    From wikipedia;
    A week after the assassination [of Anna Politkovskaya], Alexander Litvinenko accused Putin of sanctioning the murder. Two weeks after this statement, Litvinenko was poisoned with radioactive polonium. Two days before his death on 24 November 2006, he wrote a statement, in case he "does not make it". He said:

    "Name the bastard. Anna Politkovskaya did not do it, so I will, for both of us.[36] You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life. May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people".

    According to some reports, Litvinenko tried to investigate Politkovskaya's death.[37][38] He was also writing a book about FSB activities including concentration camps in Chechnya. In that regard, he had frequent contacts with Politkovskaya.[39] Litvinenko's poisoning was remarkably similar to the thallium poisoning of KGB defector Nikolai Khokhlov,[40] whom Politkovskaya had interviewed for Novaya Gazeta.[41]
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  12. #42
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Err, and that is a proof? He wrote a book and he said it was Putin... Right. It won't stand in front of a Jury.

    Last time a claim of a Polonium killing was on Yasser Arafat, former leader of the PLO. The killing was put on the Mossad. So, apparently, Mossad and KGB work together if the murder weapon must be a proof.

    However, as a faithful watcher of NCIS, I know that Israel is the best USA ally, so I can, from theses evidences, tell the world that the CIA killed Litvinenko.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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  13. #43
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    We can not say for sure that the letter was written by Litvinenko, and he and Politovskaya were hardly the only ones who wrote against Putin. Crimes in Chechnya were written about and published by many journalists.

    Generally, when the sentence starts with "According to some reports", take what comes after it with a grain of salt. There is a chance Putin ordered it, but there are also 15 or more other theories and one of them may be true just as well.

  14. #44
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    We can not say for sure that the letter was written by Litvinenko, and he and Politovskaya were hardly the only ones who wrote against Putin. Crimes in Chechnya were written about and published by many journalists.

    Generally, when the sentence starts with "According to some reports", take what comes after it with a grain of salt. There is a chance Putin ordered it, but there are also 15 or more other theories and one of them may be true just as well.
    Politkovskaja was probably whacked by one of Kadyrov's thugs.

    That doesn't change things much when it comes to Putin's responsibility.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  15. #45
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Politkovskaja was probably whacked by one of Kadyrov's thugs.

    That doesn't change things much when it comes to Putin's responsibility.
    He's responsible in the sense every head of state is responsible for not making the country a better place. He's responsible to his electorate for that, not to courts.

  16. #46
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    He's responsible in the sense every head of state is responsible for not making the country a better place. He's responsible to his electorate for that, not to courts.
    Not just "making the country safer". What do you think would happen if one of Putin's propaganda journalists died, would we see more or less investigation than we saw when Politkovskaja died? And "making the country safer" sounds like Politkovskaja was a victim of general crime, but Kadyrov is Putin's strongman. He's not a nobody.

    Negligence is actually a crime. Selective law enforcement is called corruption, which is also a crime. Few bosses actually "order hits"; the underlings are supposed to know intuitively when the head honcho wants someone whacked. This is the situation in Russia.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 04-01-2014 at 08:37.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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  17. #47
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    We can not say for sure that the letter was written by Litvinenko, and he and Politovskaya were hardly the only ones who wrote against Putin. Crimes in Chechnya were written about and published by many journalists.

    Generally, when the sentence starts with "According to some reports", take what comes after it with a grain of salt. There is a chance Putin ordered it, but there are also 15 or more other theories and one of them may be true just as well.
    As noted - the MO fits KGB practice of publicly poisoning KGB defectors. There is no way Polonium could have accidentally got into ONLY Litvinenko's food, irrc he was at a Sushi restaurant, so it's even less likely.

    His death was painful and agonising - even if Polonium had not been detected his high profile and his sudden deterioration in health after his accusing Putin of murder would fuel conspiracy theories. Further, the use of Polonium indicates access to a nuclear reactor, which points to the Russian State.

    Application of Ockham's Razor suggests the murder was ordered by Putin or someone close to him. Given Putin's control of the Oligarchs, it hardly matter which. One of the suspected assassins subsequently became a member of the Durma.

    This is just what I remember from the news reports at the time.
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  18. #48
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    As noted - the MO fits KGB practice of publicly poisoning KGB defectors. There is no way Polonium could have accidentally got into ONLY Litvinenko's food, irrc he was at a Sushi restaurant, so it's even less likely.

    His death was painful and agonising - even if Polonium had not been detected his high profile and his sudden deterioration in health after his accusing Putin of murder would fuel conspiracy theories. Further, the use of Polonium indicates access to a nuclear reactor, which points to the Russian State.

    Application of Ockham's Razor suggests the murder was ordered by Putin or someone close to him. Given Putin's control of the Oligarchs, it hardly matter which. One of the suspected assassins subsequently became a member of the Durma.

    This is just what I remember from the news reports at the time.
    Actually, applying Ockham's Razor would suggest that he and two others were involved in polonium smuggling. Since none of them was an expert, the possibility of poisoning was rather high.

    It is by far the simplest theory. Opposed to it was that of all those thousands who badmouthed Putin, he was specifically chosen after 7 years in exile, and those wishing to kill him choose to do it with an extremely complicated method.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Actually, applying Ockham's Razor would suggest that he and two others were involved in polonium smuggling. Since none of them was an expert, the possibility of poisoning was rather high.

    It is by far the simplest theory. Opposed to it was that of all those thousands who badmouthed Putin, he was specifically chosen after 7 years in exile, and those wishing to kill him choose to do it with an extremely complicated method.
    You would need to posit why they were undertaking such smuggling, my is was not more securely transported, who it was to be sold to and why a former KGB agent would be undertaking such a dangerous venture without backing from Russia.

    In fact, if Litvineko WAS smuggling Polonium that means he was stealing it from the Russian state to sell to Terrorists, possibly Chechens given his political leanings, which would be a compelling reason for Putin to kill him.

    It would be poetic to do it with Polonium, no?
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  20. #50
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    You would need to posit why they were undertaking such smuggling, my is was not more securely transported, who it was to be sold to and why a former KGB agent would be undertaking such a dangerous venture without backing from Russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Polonium is an important element in nuclear weapons triggers, and thus, smuggling of Polonium would presumably be a very lucrative activity for an ex-spy who is believed to have been facing serious economic difficulties as his erstwhile employer and sponsor, Boris Berezovsky, was increasingly disinclined to provide further funding.

    According to The Independent, Litvinenko told the Italian academic he met on the day he fell ill that he had organised the smuggling of nuclear material out of Russia, for his security service employers, to Zürich, Switzerland in 2000.[63] Though no mention is made in the allegations of the specific nature of the nuclear material.

    Mary Dejevsky wrote that her explanation of Litvinenko's death was the careless handling of radioactive material.[64] Dejevsky wrote that "no one in Britain," including Litvinenko's widow, has seen the documents Britain sent to Moscow in support of Lugovoy's extradition request.

    The Russian lower house MP Andrei Lugovoi has also speculated, that Litvinenko's death may be the result of his careless handling of polonium. "One of the core versions could be that Litvinenko carelessly handled polonium which he may have had. His real hatred for those in power in Russia then, for the intelligence service, for everything Russian should be taken into account."[65] It should be noted that Andrei Lugovoi's ongoing extradition is being sought by the Crown Prosecution Service in connection with Litvinenko's poisoning.

    Dmitry Kovtun said in an interview to Spiegel TV that his radioactive trail was due to his earlier meetings with Litvinenko in London 16–18 October 2006. Kovtun was under investigation by German detectives for suspected polonium smuggling into Germany in October. According to BBC, Litvinenko's bus ticket he used to get to 1 November meeting was not found radioactive.[66]

    Joseph Farah claimed at World Net Daily that MI6 had learned about Al Qaida offering millions of dollars to anyone that could supply them with polonium. Farah wrote that GCHQ intercepted a phone call in Peshawar implying that Al Qaida were actively seeking polonium.[67]

    Edward Jay Epstein, an American journalist, wrote in the New York Sun that Britain sent "embarrassingly thin substantiation" of its claims against Lugovoy. His hypothesis was that "Litvinenko came in contact with a Polonium-210 smuggling operation and was [..] exposed to it".[68][69]

    Russia Today's editors wrote that Epstein said there was "no substantial evidence against Lugovoy".[70]
    In fact, if Litvineko WAS smuggling Polonium that means he was stealing it from the Russian state to sell to Terrorists, possibly Chechens given his political leanings, which would be a compelling reason for Putin to kill him.
    No. Chechen terrorists are unlikely to buy Polonium. What are they going to do with it, poison people? If they want to kill someone, they use bombs and guns, and it would extremely unlikely they would spend good money on that, which could be spent much better on heavier weaponry to counter Russian armour and gunships.

    Radioactive material is useful to someone with proper funding and installations to do something with it. It would most probably be a state, maybe some from the middle east, maybe NK, or some well established terrorist organization with a huge amount of money on hand, like Al-Qaeda.

    It would be poetic to do it with Polonium, no?
    I'm not saying there's no chance someone from Russia did it, but there are many far more logical theories.

  21. #51
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I'm not saying there's no chance someone from Russia did it, but there are many far more logical theories.
    Whenever someone pisses me off I go down to my basement, scrape some fresh polonium out my nuclear reactor, then invite them for a cup of tea. It could have been anyone. Anyone with a reactor.
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  22. #52
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Whenever someone pisses me off I go down to my basement, scrape some fresh polonium out my nuclear reactor, then invite them for a cup of tea. It could have been anyone. Anyone with a reactor.
    Seriously? We've been through that. On this page...

    Here, have fun.


  23. #53
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    His closest American equivalence seems to be the neocon.

    Low focus on international respect of laws. Low focus on economics (this is going to hurt Russia hard economically). High focus on macho manliness. High focus on national supremacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Actually, applying Ockham's Razor would suggest that he and two others were involved in polonium smuggling. Since none of them was an expert, the possibility of poisoning was rather high.

    It is by far the simplest theory. Opposed to it was that of all those thousands who badmouthed Putin, he was specifically chosen after 7 years in exile, and those wishing to kill him choose to do it with an extremely complicated method.
    Acutually your theory does not hold up given basic knowledge of polonium you would know its most common form has a half life of 138 days so he would have and to have smuggled it very recently for it to retain any commerical/industrial/weaponised value and/or moved massive quantities. Also polonium is an alpha emitter is easy to contain the radiation to the point skin is generally thick enough to stop it. Alpha emitters are only deadly when breathed or consumed as the lungs and inner organs get directly radiated.

    So for your theory to hold any substance he would have had to recently smuggled condoms filled with polonium in his stomach from Russia and one or more would have to have burst.
    Last edited by Papewaio; 04-03-2014 at 03:28.
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  24. #54
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Acutually your theory does not hold up given basic knowledge of polonium you would know its most common form has a half life of 138 days so he would have and to have smuggled it very recently for it to retain any commerical/industrial/weaponised value and/or moved massive quantities. Also polonium is an alpha emitter is easy to contain the radiation to the point skin is generally thick enough to stop it. Alpha emitters are only deadly when breathed or consumed as the lungs and inner organs get directly radiated.

    So for your theory to hold any substance he would have had to recently smuggled condoms filled with polonium in his stomach from Russia and one or more would have to have burst.
    There are other ways he could have ingested Polonium.

    I have absolutely no idea what happened to him. I'm just saying there are many possibilities, and that it's silly to say "Putin did it" when there are more logical theories.

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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    There are other ways he could have ingested Polonium.

    I have absolutely no idea what happened to him. I'm just saying there are many possibilities, and that it's silly to say "Putin did it" when there are more logical theories.
    What Pape's saying is - he would have needed to eat it.

    A tin box, indeed a cardboard box, would have made it safe to transport - if he was a KGB Polonium smuggler in a past life, he would not have irradiated himself.
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  26. #56
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    What wine goes with polonium?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  27. #57
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    "he would have needed to eat it." So someone very closed to him gave it to him. Putin of course...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  28. #58
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    What Pape's saying is - he would have needed to eat it.
    I understood him. Isn't that what "ingest" means: to eat, drink, take in, imbibe... ?

    A tin box, indeed a cardboard box, would have made it safe to transport - if he was a KGB Polonium smuggler in a past life, he would not have irradiated himself.
    It doesn't mean he couldn't have made a mistake. How was the material transported, where it was stored, who could access it... German and Italian sources mention he was involved in smuggling. To whom was he selling it? Al-Qaeda? Rogue states? Maybe the Brits or Americans whacked him, to stop radioactive material from getting to the hands of Al-Qaeda. Maybe it was one his partners in crime, maybe it was an accident due to inexpert handling, maybe it was a different grudge from the past, maybe it was Berezovsky, his financial backer with whom he had a falling out, and yes, maybe it was Putin himself...

    There are many theories, and I won't even pretend I have a vague idea what happened.

    Looking at the facts, Putin theory is one of the least likely theories out there. Putin would single out him out of thousand people who was badmouthing him and bringing to light his crimes in Chechnya or elsewhere, then kill him, transforming him from a virtual unknown to a household name, seven years after he defected, using most complicated method possible...

  29. #59
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Looking at the facts, Putin theory is one of the least likely theories out there. Putin would single out him out of thousand people who was badmouthing him and bringing to light his crimes in Chechnya or elsewhere, then kill him, transforming him from a virtual unknown to a household name, seven years after he defected, using most complicated method possible...
    It's not like he starts to take chunks of a country that said no to him on something...

    Putin is big on posture. Even if he wasn't responsible, he doesn't seem to mind looking like it.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
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  30. #60

    Default Re: Vladimir Putin

    I credit Putin for not really caring about "fantasy news". No doubt he also has some connection to the Malaysia Airline disappearance, the Mayan Calender and the Bermuda Triangle.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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