Medieval 2 Questions

[easytarget]

I feel a bit like I'm hijacking Inco's Let's Play thread so I'm going to start a new one where I just ask questions and hopefully someone out there still playing ME2 or who has played it in the past and willing to answer all the dumb questions I come up with along the way will chime in here!

1. Are schools and libraries worth building? They don't show much benefit in description, am I missing something?

2. On replenishment, do I have to send the unit I need replenishing back to the city/castle they were recruited from? It would appear to my untrained eye as if sometimes when I send them to the nearest castle/city that has the building that should afford the building of that unit, which to my way of thinking of it, would suggest the ability to replenish, the unit remains grey'd out on the training tab.

3. Just got an announcement about the Mongol hordes coming which I've heard so much about. W/in about one turn I had the Moors coming up from the south who heretofore I had ignored (apparently I should not have). My question is, is this in response to the Mongol horde announcement? And am I likely to get other visitors out of the East headed my way as well?

Ok, I'll stop there and see what I get. Man is this particular CA game fun. Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer some questions about the game, and trust me I do try and find the answers first, it's just that not many are still playing this one I'm afraid.

[easytarget]

Ok, another question even before the last batch got answered (hopefully).

While dealing with the Mongol horde invasion, which is what I assume these endless stacks of Moors is comprised of, not certain mind you, just assumed since the announcement of Mongols invading and the Moors showing up with 10 stacks coincided perfectly, I assumed they were connected, anyway, to my new question: I just got invaded up in the north where I'd taken a couple of Norway or Denmark cities/castles I've just had the announcement of the invasion of Teutonic Knights, is this unique to the stainless steel mod or does this show up in the vanilla game at very same time as the Mongol hordes?

I ask because these guys are showing up at a very inopportune time, I just hauled the armies up there down to deal with the Moors, so there's nothing there to stop these guys, not that it would matter, I'm talking chevrons out they yingyang on these guys, two stacks led by Generals with like 8 or 10 stars or something and a minimum of 4 chevrons on every unit. The wrecked on of my remaining armies w/o suffering a scratch.

What on earth am I to do here with these guys? I have half a mind to send a diplomat to someone I'm currently at war with and offer up the two I hold up there and just run away.

Thoughts?

[jackfruitguy69]

I feel a bit like I'm hijacking Inco's Let's Play thread so I'm going to start a new one where I just ask questions and hopefully someone out there still playing ME2 or who has played it in the past and willing to answer all the dumb questions I come up with along the way will chime in here!

1. Are schools and libraries worth building? They don't show much benefit in description, am I missing something?

2. On replenishment, do I have to send the unit I need replenishing back to the city/castle they were recruited from? It would appear to my untrained eye as if sometimes when I send them to the nearest castle/city that has the building that should afford the building of that unit, which to my way of thinking of it, would suggest the ability to replenish, the unit remains grey'd out on the training tab.

3. Just got an announcement about the Mongol hordes coming which I've heard so much about. W/in about one turn I had the Moors coming up from the south who heretofore I had ignored (apparently I should not have). My question is, is this in response to the Mongol horde announcement? And am I likely to get other visitors out of the East headed my way as well?

Ok, I'll stop there and see what I get. Man is this particular CA game fun. Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer some questions about the game, and trust me I do try and find the answers first, it's just that not many are still playing this one I'm afraid.

hey sorry i got late on posting been alot busy lately.... on number 2 you have to retrain units on the type of city/castle you got them. dont really have to be the same city/castle i.e retrain feudal knights on a fortress, pavise crossbowmen on a city with city watch. for mercenaries you got to play around with those. there are some that can be retrained on both city/castle where others only on 1 type.

[Nelson]

1. Schools and libraries can help train better agents by leading to guilds, iirc.

2. I think you can retrain troops where ever you can build them.

3. I am unaware of any connection between the Mongols and other factions. The Timurids work like the Mongols. They show up and you get warned. I have never played Stainless Steel or seen a Moorish horde.

I’ve never liked the way the Mongols and Timurids play out due to the way so many large stacks in close proximity lead to such large battles that the game becomes a slide show. Giant multi-stack armies wreck the game engine.

[easytarget]

Thx for the response! So, need schools and libraries either in the city I want to work on establishing an assassins guild or the one where it has already started to push it along?

Ok, retrain anywhere you can build, I just need to understand then why sometimes it appears grey'd out still even though I can build there. Still feels like I'm missing something. But at least I'm not just out in left field on it.

This one worries me then, it could well mean that I allowed the Moors to build up an empire to the south of me and they've invaded only it just is mere happenstance it happened at the same time of the Mongols invasion announcement, in which case I've still got that to look forward to if they make it over my way. Man those Tuetonic Knights that also showed up thanks to Stainless Steel just obliterated me.

[easytarget]

hey sorry i got late on posting been alot busy lately.... on number 2 you have to retrain units on the type of city/castle you got them. dont really have to be the same city/castle i.e retrain feudal knights on a fortress, pavise crossbowmen on a city with city watch. for mercenaries you got to play around with those. there are some that can be retrained on both city/castle where others only on 1 type.

Thanks for the response, good to know. I take it you can replenish crusader specific mercs you hire and possibly mercs in general then?

[jackfruitguy69]

well i tried to recruit unhorsed knights on vanilla and stainless steel and they both can be retrained on a castle and city. i might assume that mercs can be retrained on the same region you hired them. but again i retrained merc spearmen on a castle(gaza) and jerusalem(city). also with the replenishment thing there are a lot of factors which also might not apply. just like what nelson said where you did recruit them; size of the barracks, population, the unit cooldown(if its not a merc)

[easytarget]

Ok, couple more questions:

1. Mongol invasion: heard lots about it, would appear the Byzantine empire is running into them (as one would expect given their location, and in my campaign at least, the fact that they are currently the largest most powerful). Funny thing about that, I send out diplos to locate this mythical terrifying beast and can't seem to find the Golden Horde anywhere, what am I missing here? I'd like to see what their armies look like first hand but can't locate them. And one additional question: will they continue to expand westward into the heard of Europe?

2. Gunpowder has been discovered. Ok, so how do I get it? I'm consistently the most advanced, which I assume puts me in a good position to get this first. Problem: how exactly do you go about it? What buildings need to be built to get this?

[easytarget]

Just thinking out loud here, if the Byzantine empire is running amok, do I have no choice but to directly engage them militarily? Of can you form an alliance with then work to get the province count you need for victory? Or if they form an alliance do they just ignore it soon thereafter and attack you anyway?

[easytarget]

And yet another question, hopefully some more folks will jump in and start responding to my questions...

If the Mongols are announced as showing up (as they have in both of my current campaigns), should I anticipate them forming alliances with the likes of the Byzantines and the Moors?

I've yet to directly run into this Mongol horde, so I'm just trying to get a gauge of just how big an issue this is likely to become. As the Moors are in the south of my position and I'd like to know if they are going to stay peaceful or instead turn this into a more united front against the Catholics, and of course I'm a tad worried about the Byzantine Empire because they are the largest threat militarily and size wise to myself.

[Kadagar_AV]

schools and libraries (and pretty much every building) also have a chance to affect the general positively or negatively (brothels and drinking houses specifically) every turn a general stays there.

However, on the turn they get completed, the chance to get the traits are enhanced.

Try to rush a general to the city when building is just about to be complete, and you often benefit positively. I have built some great governors this way :)

The mongols generally don't create alliances any time soon. If I remember correctly, the Golden Horde is about 10 full stacks of elite troops.

About Byzans.... Befriend the pope and call an Crusade against them

That way every catholic country will start sending stacks towards them, yey! Then move in through the waters and target the specific territories you deem important to you.

[Rex Somnorum]

@easytarget

I suppose you're not willing to cheat to lift the FoW? If not, the Mongols should arrive somewhere in eastern Russia.

[easytarget]

Thanks man, it just so happens after I posted that one of my diplomats ran across the Mongols out in the desert, I think near Jerusalem.

Since this was not 10 stacks Kadagar mentions above I suspect I've not found all of the horde that is running amok, but no matter, I'm really just trying to piece together where they are in general so I can navigate my expansion to attain the requisite territory count w/o butting heads with them directly.

I just got my guy voted in as Pope, so we're about to go all Crusader on either the Byzantine boys or the Mongols, being that the B boys are closer they are more of a known threat impeding my expansion, so they may be the ones I invite all my fellow Catholics to go on a sightseeing tour, one where the visitors are encouraged to stab and pillage the locals, not just take their picture.

[Kadagar_AV]

The most cheesy way I have found to fight the Mongols was when I was playing Russia...

I lined up all assassins I could get, leveled them up to the best of my ability.... And then just murdered the Mongol King and Prince in the same turn.

That lead to all of their armies turning rebel...

Even as low as 10-20% odds of a kill isn't much of a deal if you have enough assassins

Now, however, we are deeeeep into cheese territory.

Golden Horde is actually just a problem if you play on the far right side of the map... Turkey, Byzans, Russia, maybe Egypt...

I suggest you start up a Russian campaign and try to beat them, Russia is actually one of the absolute most fun factions, as they have a very diverse and good troop roster. Heck, I'd wage the very best, even!!

[easytarget]

Well, I can safely say I'm a firm believer in the fine art of assassins. I make regular use of their services just as I made regular use of all my agents in Shogun 2. So, consider that box checked, haha!

Now tell me, are the Mongols and the Golden Horde two different entities then? I was under perhaps mistaken impression the Golden Horde was the manifestation of the announced Mongol invasion.

As for your suggestion of playing Russia, I'll definitely take that up in due time, in fact I plan to do the same thing I did with Shogun 2 and play everyone through at least once to a completed campaign.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, I can safely say I'm a firm believer in the fine art of assassins. I make regular use of their services just as I made regular use of all my agents in Shogun 2. So, consider that box checked, haha!

Now tell me, are the Mongols and the Golden Horde two different entities then? I was under perhaps mistaken impression the Golden Horde was the manifestation of the announced Mongol invasion.

As for your suggestion of playing Russia, I'll definitely take that up in due time, in fact I plan to do the same thing I did with Shogun 2 and play everyone through at least once to a completed campaign.

Mongols and the Golden Horde is the same thing...

Later on the Timurids will also come for a visit - it's like the golden horde but with rocket shooting elephants :)

"Play the turks" they said...
"It will be fun" they said...

[Myth]

Are schools and libraries worth building? They don't show much benefit in description, am I missing something?

Your building priorities should be:

1. Ports (everywhere, as high as you can get them)
2. Main unit buildings in Castles or higher / Trade buildings in Cities
3. Growth buildings everywhere

Once those are used up, go for schools/libraries. They provide some good traits for your generals, so there's that. You don't have that much to build in vanilla, so you will get to them eventually. Just remember to take care of money and troop recruitment first.

On replenishment, do I have to send the unit I need replenishing back to the city/castle they were recruited from? It would appear to my untrained eye as if sometimes when I send them to the nearest castle/city that has the building that should afford the building of that unit, which to my way of thinking of it, would suggest the ability to replenish, the unit remains grey'd out on the training tab.

You can only retrain troops in a settlement which can recruit them.

3. Just got an announcement about the Mongol hordes coming which I've heard so much about. W/in about one turn I had the Moors coming up from the south who heretofore I had ignored (apparently I should not have). My question is, is this in response to the Mongol horde announcement? And am I likely to get other visitors out of the East headed my way as well?

Those two are completely unrelated. The Moors are a regular faction which has probably become a bit of a runaway to get that many stacks (or you're playing a mod). The Mongols pop up far to the east as a Horde faction. You'll know them when you see them.

While dealing with the Mongol horde invasion, which is what I assume these endless stacks of Moors is comprised of, not certain mind you, just assumed since the announcement of Mongols invading and the Moors showing up with 10 stacks coincided perfectly, I assumed they were connected, anyway, to my new question: I just got invaded up in the north where I'd taken a couple of Norway or Denmark cities/castles I've just had the announcement of the invasion of Teutonic Knights, is this unique to the stainless steel mod or does this show up in the vanilla game at very same time as the Mongol hordes?

I ask because these guys are showing up at a very inopportune time, I just hauled the armies up there down to deal with the Moors, so there's nothing there to stop these guys, not that it would matter, I'm talking chevrons out they yingyang on these guys, two stacks led by Generals with like 8 or 10 stars or something and a minimum of 4 chevrons on every unit. The wrecked on of my remaining armies w/o suffering a scratch.

OK for Stainless Steel now it makes sense. The Moors will be getting more and more free stacks as closer you are to overpowering them and wiping them out. THey can spam a lot of stuff at you, so beware. The TO shows up around the 1200s or so, they are a Horde faction (meaning they can't be wiped out due to not having citie) and start chomping at Lithuania and other non Christians in the Baltic region. They get a fullstack and a halfstack initially, then every time they lose their armies they get a fullstack or a halfstack. Don't be surprised it Lithuania goes bye-bye soon. The Mongols in the SS mod come also as a horde faction, with MANY free units and lots of free gold. They will crush the Kwarezmian Shah and the Cumans first. I think in SS they get around 20-30 free stacks with 10 star generals. Their HAs and cav will have you reeling. The best way to handle them is just wait for them to starve out, because as they start conquering cities their massive armies start paying upkeep, and even the 1 million or so free gold the AI gets isn't enough. Withut a way for them to replenish losses, the ERE/Egypt will whittle them down enough for you.

Just don't let them get half the map. Thad't be something indeed.

Thx for the response! So, need schools and libraries either in the city I want to work on establishing an assassins guild or the one where it has already started to push it along

The assassin's guild pops up like other guilds - you have a hidden point pool and when you get enough points you get asked if you want that guild in that city. The things the assassin's guild likes: training of assassins. Successful assassinations. Brothel line of buildings. They don't like it when you turn down a guild offer. Also, don't get more than one spy guild and constantly check when you conquer new cities. For some reason, the AI gets spy guilds everywhere which blocks you from getting other guild offers unless you tear them down.

well i tried to recruit unhorsed knights on vanilla and stainless steel and they both can be retrained on a castle and city. i might assume that mercs can be retrained on the same region you hired them. but again i retrained merc spearmen on a castle(gaza) and jerusalem(city). also with the replenishment thing there are a lot of factors which also might not apply. just like what nelson said where you did recruit them; size of the barracks, population, the unit cooldown(if its not a merc)

Mercs can only be retrained if the merc pool in that region allows it. Thus, if you have merc. crossbowmen you have to wait until you can recruit more to retrain your current ones instead (thus using up some of the pool). Same with Crusade mercs who can only be retrained in a crusading stack and in a region which has a full pool.

2. Gunpowder has been discovered. Ok, so how do I get it? I'm consistently the most advanced, which I assume puts me in a good position to get this first. Problem: how exactly do you go about it? What buildings need to be built to get this?

You can build a building in cities (not castles) which are big enough. It costs 800 gold and it gives you canons which tear city walls to shreds. Later on you will get other stuff. Some factions get better gunpowder than others (for example: Venice, Turks)

Just thinking out loud here, if the Byzantine empire is running amok, do I have no choice but to directly engage them militarily? Of can you form an alliance with then work to get the province count you need for victory? Or if they form an alliance do they just ignore it soon thereafter and attack you anyway?

Sure you can. Declare war and splatter them. Only Crusading stacks can't attack Orthodox factions. Regular armies work just fine. If they're dealing with the mongols in your game however, I'd leave them alone for now.

If the Mongols are announced as showing up (as they have in both of my current campaigns), should I anticipate them forming alliances with the likes of the Byzantines and the Moors?

I've yet to directly run into this Mongol horde, so I'm just trying to get a gauge of just how big an issue this is likely to become. As the Moors are in the south of my position and I'd like to know if they are going to stay peaceful or instead turn this into a more united front against the Catholics, and of course I'm a tad worried about the Byzantine Empire because they are the largest threat militarily and size wise to myself.

I highly doubt you'd see smart alliance play from the AI. If it's Stainless Steel we're talking abut, the Byzantines will roll stuff over yes. But the Mongols will keep them in check for a long time. The Moors won't work with the Mongols, they will just try to capture Iberia and go north into France.

My advice is for you to crush the Moors and build up, while keeping tabs on the greek/mongol conflict with spies.

About Byzans.... Befriend the pope and call an Crusade against them

You can't call crusades against Orthodox factions and Crusading armies cannot attack them. It's hardcoded into the game. If we're talking about Stainless Steel, taking out Constantinople is your best bet to cripple them, since it's the only city which can recruit the awesome Scholarii. If it's vanilla, well... Just wage regular war and push them out of Europe.

Well, I can safely say I'm a firm believer in the fine art of assassins. I make regular use of their services just as I made regular use of all my agents in Shogun 2. So, consider that box checked, haha!

Now tell me, are the Mongols and the Golden Horde two different entities then? I was under perhaps mistaken impression the Golden Horde was the manifestation of the announced Mongol invasion.

They are called the Mongols in Vanilla and the Golden Horde in Stainelss Steel. The Assassin trick won't work in Stainless Steel, because a script will gift free family members to the AI to prevent it from going extinct like that. And since they are a horde faction in Early, the only real way to kill them is to completely wipe them off the map.

[easytarget]

Thanks Myth, lots of great info here!

And I'm sure I'll keep running into questions along the way, thanks to everyone responding!

[Kadagar_AV]

You can direct crusades vs orthodox factions in vanilla, don't know about SS.

Used to be my standard Danish opening... At once send diplomat down to the pope... Butter him up till he likes you, and then send of a crusade to Russia for quick grabs and easy access to awesome troops - and experience :)

[Myth]

You can direct crusades vs orthodox factions in vanilla, don't know about SS.

Used to be my standard Danish opening... At once send diplomat down to the pope... Butter him up till he likes you, and then send of a crusade to Russia for quick grabs and easy access to awesome troops - and experience :)

Nope. You can direct a Crusade versus rebel cities (Vilnius IIRC in Vanilla) but not vs. Orthodox Christians. Definitely not vs. the Byzantines, and I think Russa has to be in the same boat. Can you show a screenshot confirming this? Way it could work is if the majority of the religion is something other than Catholic or Orthodox and it can't be owned by a Catholic or Orthodox faction (it CAN be rebel owned)

[Kadagar_AV]

Nope. You can direct a Crusade versus rebel cities (Vilnius IIRC in Vanilla) but not vs. Orthodox Christians. Definitely not vs. the Byzantines, and I think Russa has to be in the same boat. Can you show a screenshot confirming this? Way it could work is if the majority of the religion is something other than Catholic or Orthodox and it can't be owned by a Catholic or Orthodox faction (it CAN be rebel owned)

Come to think of it, that dane start probably did targets rebels..

I might be wrong here, will check when I have time...

[easytarget]

The latest question: how do I easily tell range on ranged weapons? I must be missing something here as I often in battle have a pretty hard time gauging how far bows and now that I've just recently gotten them, canons can fire so I'm not properly positioned them to be most effective while still out of harms way.

In Shogun 2 I had a pretty easy time seeing the arc line that showed the range, does such a thing exist in MTW2?

[Myth]

The latest question: how do I easily tell range on ranged weapons? I must be missing something here as I often in battle have a pretty hard time gauging how far bows and now that I've just recently gotten them, canons can fire so I'm not properly positioned them to be most effective while still out of harms way.

In Shogun 2 I had a pretty easy time seeing the arc line that showed the range, does such a thing exist in MTW2?

Not that I know of. Right click on your target. Your units will start moving towards it if it's out of range and fire when they get in range. If you keep hovering, your pointer will turn from a little red bow to a little green bow. Best thing to do if you have mixed archer lines is to hit stop and see who needs to go further towards the enemy and who can fire from where he is at.

[easytarget]

Ok, fair enough, that is what I've been doing so far is clicking on the target and then keeping an eye on them to make sure they didn't just march off into a bunch of melee or cav and get themselves dead, unfortunately the battlefield gets a bit chaotic so it's not always possible with multiple ranged units to make sure they aren't wandering somewhere they aren't supposed to, but I can manage. Just wanted to check if I was missing something, the trick with the green vs red bow icon will get the job done well enough though, thanks for that tip!

[Rex Somnorum]

The latest question: how do I easily tell range on ranged weapons? I must be missing something here as I often in battle have a pretty hard time gauging how far bows and now that I've just recently gotten them, canons can fire so I'm not properly positioned them to be most effective while still out of harms way.

In Shogun 2 I had a pretty easy time seeing the arc line that showed the range, does such a thing exist in MTW2?

The best thing to do is just play frequently to get a feel for estimating distance in game. Shogun has coddled you.

[easytarget]

Yeah, nothing like putting a feature in a game that makes perfect sense like the range line to spoil you.

/rolls eyes

[Myth]

Yeah, nothing like putting a feature in a game that makes perfect sense like the range line to spoil you.

/rolls eyes

Hmm, I didn't like that in Shogun II. I didn't need it and the extra interface doodles ruin immersion for me.

[Nelson]

the extra interface doodles ruin immersion for me.

I agree, Myth. I prefer as clean a battle space as possible. No banners, green spots, etc., for me, either. The otherwise splendid graphics are marred by continuous persistent markers of any kind. I regret that in Shogun 2 and Rome 2 I can't turn off all of the town and city markers. Those gate and tower ownership beacons are annoying. All we need is a mouse over display instead of the constant one we have now.

[easytarget]

Hmm, I didn't like that in Shogun II. I didn't need it and the extra interface doodles ruin immersion for me.

To each his own, I liked it. As for immersion, I get that mostly from the RPG element of the game, not battle mechanics. Some though I'm aware think the only way to fight the battle is at eye level on legendary and bicker endlessly about whether certain units are accurate.

Funny thing about the realism types in TW games, they are all a bunch of complete light weights compared to the grogs that entirely make up the Combat Mission crowd.

[easytarget]

Before doing the work thing, one new question did pop in my head I didn't want to forget to post.

Does anyone know the general formula for how much it will cost me to get back into the good grace's of the Pope one excommunicated? I never know how much I'll have to spend so it's a bit hard for me to calculate the cost/benefit of doing it.

I just assassinated a general coming through my lands headed to a Crusade (which amusingly enough I called since I put an English Pope in he's my man) not knowing that doing so immediately gets you excommunicated, funny way to find that out actually.

Anyway, it cost me like 21k to get reconcile. Is this variable depending on how much money you have, what the Pope had for lunch?