The Pope

[Gregoshi]

The Pope seems to be a detriment to M2TW living up to its "total war" label.

In my current game, Sicily, Milan and Poland all jumped me at about the same time. Fortunately, except for Milan, the attacks were as strong as a wet noodle. Just as I'm about to start smacking them down (had to get armies in position), the Pope steps in and tells us all to stop OR ELSE! Milan and Poland beat a hasty retreat and Sicily marched an army around in my territory making threatening moves, but not attacking. And we are all still officially at war. Meanwhile, I'm standing there with balled fists (armies) going "But...but...but they started it!"

So I have to ask, how does a Good Catholic (wink wink) empire crush its Catholic neighbors without getting the Pope all fired up? It seems being a victim isn't an excuse. I sent my King off to personally lead a crusade at the Pope's request, yet it doesn't appear to have had that much of a difference with him. Is building lots of churches and upgrading them along with "tithes" to the Papal States required?

[easytarget]

I've tended towards keeping the Pope on my side by following his requests, building churches and upgrading them and occasionally throwing some money at him. When I get put in time out with one Nation temporarily I tend to keep one other army staged somewhere else I want to go and put them into action and then basically see-saw back and forth between fronts based on the Pope's responses.

To be honest I find it a pretty amusing element that does throw in an additional factor that adds flavor to the campaign. Not insurmountable, just as diseases and Mongols aren't, but add them all up and get sideways with enough factions that decide to get serious at the same time and things can get positively hairy for a bit.

In short, I love everything about this TW. And I so like the battles more than Rome 2, they are more fun to play by a mile in my opinion.

Oh, btw, when I've built some churches and the Pope has rewarded me with some cardinals, enough to sway the vote, I have been known to send an assassin his way to help usher him to heaven and then elect one of my own guys (the next amazing coincidence is how often this then leads to a crusade being called against whoever the strongest faction is on the list of cities a crusade can be called against, odd that).

[Myth]

Build and upgrade churches and grant him 5000 gold or more early game. When you go on your first crusade, bring 20 priests with you and mass convert islamic populations to Catholicism. This will promote said priests and in one generation time you will dominate 90% of the college of cardinals.

Alternatively - assassinate the pope when he gets too angry, the next guy will be more benevolent and might even lift your excommunication.

[Gregoshi]

So "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned..." won't work, eh?

I like the build/upgrade churches and even the 5000 gold (whenever I have that much), but the crusade/20 priests seems a bit gamey for my tastes. As for assassination, I'm sure if my younger son Leopold ever gets the crown that will be the likely solution. That boy has some real anger issues.

[HopAlongBunny]

The same dodge that worked in MTW should work for M2TW; declare war on 2 belligerents => Pope issues a "Cease and Desist" for 1 => you are free to attack the other.
The priest offensive in the Middle-east is always worthwhile. You stack the college, play nice with the Pope and lay the foundation for future expansion; what's not to love about this strat?

[Myth]

The mass prists makes sense from a historical pov, i don't see it as gamey. However, in M2 the pope can issue multiple cease orders simultaneously.

[Gregoshi]

I've built about a half dozen churches and my crusade just landed at Antioch (not taken the city yet) and suddenly I'm the Pope's #1 best buddy in the whole wide world. After taking Antioch, now I'm not sure what to do with it. Is it possible to sustain and build upon this conquest so far from home? Or will it eventually be crushed by Muslim factions? My king is the only general in the army. I don't want him dying there as I could use him back home but I also don't want to leave the province under AI control and the army under the command of a captain. Will the Pope get upset with me if I withdraw without a fight? The Pope certainly adds a finesse requirement to your wars.

[HopAlongBunny]

Depends on your game plan.
If your army is large enough you could play "wrecking crew"; pillage and burn you way through the rich well developed cities => go home with the filthy lucre to finance whatever it is you want to do.
Annex an island => Cyprus or Rhodes make an nice base if either is (or can be made) available; can get you into hostilities with nations that consider those provinces "home turf".
Keep Antioch and launch another crusade asap; assign a prince so you can farm nice traits and get your king home; crusades and battle can really groom nice rulers, and if you get lucky you might farm some nice "relics".

[jackfruitguy69]

make a full stack army equal to the number of cities your enemy has...
park them on ready mode outside.
siege the cities.
relations with pope will drop.
gift the pope some money.
relations should be improved.
end the turn.
relations with pope should drop again on the start of new turn.
the sieges should be ready.
gift pope money again.
relations will rise.
take all their cities in one turn=only occupy or sack do not exterminate.
relations will drop again.
now gift pope money.
relations rise again


i did this with poland playing HRE and scotland playing english

[easytarget]

Jack,

I'm starting to think all your suggestions are gamey.

[jackfruitguy69]

lool

[Lord of Terror]

Hi

I have done this and it worked for me
What you have to do is simple:
Attack the enemy
You will lose some papal points
And when you have finished just send a diplomat at the Papal States and maybe send them a little money
At the end the victory is yours :)

[TinnedCan]

What seems to work for me is:
Siege city/ies
Oh no! The pope is angry.
End turn.
Capture city/ies.
Declare ceasefire for money, of course.
Gift Pope a some florins.
Back at level terms.

[easytarget]

Money definitely is handy, because as you said, you can buy your way back into his good graces.

[Yesugey]

The Pope seems to be a detriment to M2TW living up to its "total war" label.

In my current game, Sicily, Milan and Poland all jumped me at about the same time. Fortunately, except for Milan, the attacks were as strong as a wet noodle. Just as I'm about to start smacking them down (had to get armies in position), the Pope steps in and tells us all to stop OR ELSE! Milan and Poland beat a hasty retreat and Sicily marched an army around in my territory making threatening moves, but not attacking. And we are all still officially at war. Meanwhile, I'm standing there with balled fists (armies) going "But...but...but they started it!"

So I have to ask, how does a Good Catholic (wink wink) empire crush its Catholic neighbors without getting the Pope all fired up? It seems being a victim isn't an excuse. I sent my King off to personally lead a crusade at the Pope's request, yet it doesn't appear to have had that much of a difference with him. Is building lots of churches and upgrading them along with "tithes" to the Papal States required?

Hey mate, I have an absolutely perfect solution for you!

I was always suspicious about "You may be excommunicated" phrase at the Pope's request, because it means "There are some acts which will result to fail the mission, but will not result with excommunication". I was always wondered what would these be?

Yesterday, I accidentally moved my army to the enemy's harbor. So my army blocked their port. By that, my mission to not to attack them failed. But I wasn't excommunicated! So you can continue attacking them :)

It might work with blocking the harbor with a ship too.

Edit: By the way I like to be backstabbed, lose a city and can't get it back because of the intervention of Pope... a lot! Because it hurts so much, and you wait for the day to come to destroy that faction, in deep anger and thirsty for revenge :)