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Thread: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

  1. #361
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You haven't even read it.
    I work with what you give me. You said 74% of the dutch muslim population supported Syrian rebels.

    This in no way equates to any type of support for ISIL.


    It's like making a poll on attitudes towards the USSR and claiming it shows support for Australia.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  2. #362
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    I work with what you give me. You said 74% of the dutch muslim population supported Syrian rebels.

    This in no way equates to any type of support for ISIL.


    It's like making a poll on attitudes towards the USSR and claiming it shows support for Australia.
    But that's exactly what I pointed out myself

    Edit: my words; Just to make you feel better, an overwhelming majority of the Dutch muslims (74%) thinks dutch muslims who pack up to fight are heroes. Can be be nuanced I suppose, as the questions asked are more about fighting against Assad rather than fighting for IS. But they can't have missed what IS actually does. Smileys are flying all over the internet about the beheaded journalist.
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-21-2014 at 18:34.

  3. #363
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    But that's exactly what I pointed out myself

    Edit: my words; Just to make you feel better, an overwhelming majority of the Dutch muslims (74%) thinks dutch muslims who pack up to fight are heroes. Can be be nuanced I suppose, as the questions asked are more about fighting against Assad rather than fighting for IS. But they can't have missed what IS actually does. Smileys are flying all over the internet about the beheaded journalist.
    Those rebels are also fighting against IS.

    So, to say that 74% of the dutch muslim populations applauds those fighting IS is an equally accurate conclusion. You should be rejoicing.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  4. #364
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Those rebels are also fighting against IS.

    So, to say that 74% of the dutch muslim populations applauds those fighting IS is an equally accurate conclusion. You should be rejoicing.
    Except that IS in the Syrian context is also a rebel group.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  5. #365
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Except that IS in the Syrian context is also a rebel group.
    It's a rebel group fighting the other rebel groups more than they fight Assad.

    Wonderful bunch, aren't they?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  6. #366
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Those rebels are also fighting against IS.

    So, to say that 74% of the dutch muslim populations applauds those fighting IS is an equally accurate conclusion. You should be rejoicing.
    How can you not see that I absolutily get that, I relativate the numbers myself
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-21-2014 at 18:53.

  7. #367
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    You imply otherwise.

    You could have made the argument that 74% of dutch muslims oppose Assad, but you drew a rather different conclusion, mixing in ISIS without any justification.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 08-21-2014 at 19:07.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #368
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    You imply otherwise.

    You could have made the argument that 74% of dutch muslims oppose Assad, but you drew a rather different conclusion, mixing in ISIS without any justification.
    True, but these guys don't join the Assadoposers, the free Syryan army doesn't want them, they join IS, European homegrown jihadi's. We got a problem, these are just the really determined.

  9. #369
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Here, is what he says at least, could also just be the cooldown. Never saw something overly offensive really, just too many links to make a thread work
    He is not perma-banned from the forums, he ended up with a time-out from the Backroom due to some antics he did.
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  10. #370
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Not all Christians are a danger to society, but there are a significant number who could cause problems even when being in the minority.



    "Nuanced" is an understatement.
    Not all Atheists are a danger to society, but... Stalin.

    Sorry, I'm eating dinner and therefore lazy.
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  11. #371
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Yeah, I also got them...

    Someone should just text him to let him know he is totally let back in.

    Won't be me though.

  12. #372
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Not all Atheists are a danger to society, but... Stalin.

    Sorry, I'm eating dinner and therefore lazy.
    Well, this was basically my point, PVC
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Not all Atheists are a danger to society, but... Stalin.
    Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jugashvili attended an Orthodox priesthood school and later the Tbilisi Spiritual Seminary.
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  14. #374
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jugashvili attended an Orthodox priesthood school and later the Tbilisi Spiritual Seminary.
    Are you trying to say that Stalin was a christian....??


    COMRADES, BURN THIS HERETIC
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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  15. #375
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Are you trying to say that Stalin was a christian....??


    COMRADES, BURN THIS HERETIC
    Hah, no. I realised it came across like that after you replied. I was more suggesting that Christianity would have played a big impact in his life, so it isn't a case of blank-slate atheism with no spiritual influence in the slightest. Raised from a strong religious environment myself, I am aware of how this would have affected him and shaped him as a person.

    Unfortunately, he picked up the wrong lessons, seeing the churches influence on control and how to replicate it opposed to seeing the wrongs then overcoming them. He is an egomaniac afterall.

    In many ways, I think he simply converted his faith into a new framework.
    Last edited by Beskar; 08-21-2014 at 21:49.
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  16. #376
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    Hah, no. I realised it came across like that after you replied. I was more suggesting that Christianity would have played a big impact in his life, so it isn't a case of blank-slate atheism with no spiritual influence in the slightest. Raised from a strong religious environment myself, I am aware of how this would have affected him and shaped him as a person.
    Stalin was raised in Tsarist Russia, a religious country like most of Europe at the time. However, like most of Europe, Tsarist Russia had pockets of radicalism. Most of these pockets were not pure, but roughly 50/50 religious/radical. Stalin grew up in one such pocket.

    If anything, Stalins childhood was shaped by the tensions created between conservatives and radicals. He ultimately fell down on the radical side. That he went to a seminary isn't very important; educational choices were largely determined by the father of the household, who sent their kids off somewhere.

    Lenin didn't really want to become a lawyer either.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    That he went to a seminary isn't very important; educational choices were largely determined by the father of the household, who sent their kids off somewhere.
    Interesting you raise that. He was kicked out of his household for attending against his fathers wishes, because his mother encouraged him too. He could have experienced the divide as you stated it within his own household. His father being an alcoholic could have played in his dominant streak and the initial signing up could have been his wish, seeing the 'faithless' father being as abusive as he was.
    Last edited by Beskar; 08-21-2014 at 22:14.
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  18. #378
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Stalin was raised in Tsarist Russia, a religious country like most of Europe at the time. However, like most of Europe, Tsarist Russia had pockets of radicalism. Most of these pockets were not pure, but roughly 50/50 religious/radical. Stalin grew up in one such pocket.

    If anything, Stalins childhood was shaped by the tensions created between conservatives and radicals. He ultimately fell down on the radical side. That he went to a seminary isn't very important; educational choices were largely determined by the father of the household, who sent their kids off somewhere.

    Lenin didn't really want to become a lawyer either.
    In one of Allies' conferences, Stalin said to the rest of the leaders, that he has become a conservative, reasoning his unwillingness to openly support communist movements outside Russia.
    I supposed he meant a conservative between communists.

  19. #379
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    If the Kurds become "our" (USA or NATO or Europe) boots on the ground in this conflict -- and by that I mean taking the fight to ISIS and pushing them from Iraq etc. -- the Kurds have one well known price. Like many, I have received some PM missives from our Kurdish voice -- have any of you detected a lessening of his desire from an independent Kurdish homeland? I haven't
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  20. #380
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    If the Kurds become "our" (USA or NATO or Europe) boots on the ground in this conflict -- and by that I mean taking the fight to ISIS and pushing them from Iraq etc. -- the Kurds have one well known price. Like many, I have received some PM missives from our Kurdish voice -- have any of you detected a lessening of his desire from an independent Kurdish homeland? I haven't
    You can do what we Brits did and promise them what they want, only to offer the land to an outside people as a romantic gesture just after the war is won. A Clinton declaration could declare that Iraq is to be the Babylonian homeland. Then you should stick around for a few decades while everyone fights everyone else, until you call it quits and leave, with a legacy of absolutely everyone in the region hating your guts.

  21. #381
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    You can do what we Brits did and promise them what they want...
    The ISIS want martyrdom, paradise and 72 virgins. We can promise to arrange the martyrdom part. Kurds already have their independence within their grasp.
    Last edited by rvg; 08-22-2014 at 18:41.
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  22. #382
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    On the Syrian front, I think it is interesting that some voices within the British establishment have come full circle, and suggestions have been made to support Assad against the rebels.

    Former head of the Army Lord Dannatt and ex-Foreign Secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind were the two that called for this, but the government doesn't look like backing it. Not yet anyway.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  23. #383
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    In one of Allies' conferences, Stalin said to the rest of the leaders, that he has become a conservative, reasoning his unwillingness to openly support communist movements outside Russia.
    I supposed he meant a conservative between communists.
    He referred to his rejection of Trotskijs permanent revolution.

    It has nothing to do with 'conservatism' as a non-marxist knows the term.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  24. #384
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    You can do what we Brits did and promise them what they want, only to offer the land to an outside people as a romantic gesture just after the war is won. A Clinton declaration could declare that Iraq is to be the Babylonian homeland. Then you should stick around for a few decades while everyone fights everyone else, until you call it quits and leave, with a legacy of absolutely everyone in the region hating your guts.
    We have managed to enact such a legacy without the efforts of a Balfour or a Lawrence.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  25. #385
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    If the Kurds become "our" (USA or NATO or Europe) boots on the ground in this conflict -- and by that I mean taking the fight to ISIS and pushing them from Iraq etc. -- the Kurds have one well known price. Like many, I have received some PM missives from our Kurdish voice -- have any of you detected a lessening of his desire from an independent Kurdish homeland? I haven't
    What do they say? Color me interested

  26. #386
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    For the record, I still think its very cool that we even have a Kurd in the backroom.
    With a bonus "German" imaginary friend.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  27. #387
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    With a bonus "German" imaginary friend.
    Must be the antics Tiaexz hinted at. Nothing but respect for the moderators for not giving a perma-ban. I don't mind sympatising with the nazi's all that much, I just think it's stupid. Freedom of speech should only be limited to calling for violence imho.

    Respect for our moderaters =+1
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-24-2014 at 06:37.

  28. #388
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    That is because they recognise ISIS as a bigger threat to general security than Assad. Perhaps they have also learnt that a secular strongman, however unpleasant, is better than the religious nutters.
    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

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  29. #389
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    With a bonus "German" imaginary friend.
    As JFK almost said, "Wir sind ein Hamburger!"

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyspy View Post
    That is because they recognise ISIS as a bigger threat to general security than Assad. Perhaps they have also learnt that a secular strongman, however unpleasant, is better than the religious nutters.
    It looks like the same has happened in Libya, with us removing a secular sob, followed by religiosi moving into the vacuum.

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