That fist link was in error, too many open tabs. I will remove it.
These links should be helpful for more in-depth information.
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc...american-boys/
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/-1939179.htm
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
That fist link was in error, too many open tabs. I will remove it.
These links should be helpful for more in-depth information.
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc...american-boys/
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/-1939179.htm
Last edited by Fisherking; 08-25-2014 at 16:04.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
3 irrelevant links, complete with paranoia and hysteria, but 'curiously' lacking in any kind of substance. Settled science, as has been said. That the homeopathy and crystal-pushing community is up in arms is nothing to worry about. They have the collective wits of a slightly handicapped stone.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Thanks, Fisherking. Looks like I read your study correctly. I am interested to know what exactly in the vaccine is causing it though. I am not aware of anything which gives that effect described and I am unsure if it isn't down to other errors or simply a one-off.Originally Posted by Fisherking
I would like a different study with a similar premises but covering 2000 onwards, that is a definite, I would have more confidence within the data since the data being used is over 20 years old and you would be able to accurately test to 2013 with the conclusions given.
And if there is a retake, I would like an in depth analysis of the patients before and after to see if there is any neurodegeneration effects.
The single report in itself doesn't show much, there are many things I am not satisfied within it. The fact the journal is 'opensource' like Wikipedia is also a concern for me due to professional integrity. Since my own reports have to be done to Journal standards, they are exceptionally nitpicky in making sure all the t's are crossed correctly and that you are not making any errors. Difference between volunteer review versus paid review.
Last edited by Beskar; 08-25-2014 at 16:23.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
What is most irrelevant is your opinion. Obviously you might have had enough time to read part of them or click on them but not to evaluate it. Not watch any of the interviews or video.
Your bias is showing! Your mind is made but on the bases of your own notions of what is the truth of the matter and facts be damned.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
I skimmed through all 3 looking for any reference to solid evidence. I found none. If there is such a thing in them, please point it out.
I also found time to go through your links looking for signs of alternative 'medicine' bullshit. I was not disappointed.
EDIT: But no, I did not watch any of the videos. I never will either. If something isn't in writing, it's not worth my time. Video is for suckers.
Last edited by HoreTore; 08-25-2014 at 16:18.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
If you are looking for other studies, chances are you would have to look in other countries, likely not English speaking ones, and even that might be doubtful.
With the proclamation that it is settled science anyone wishing to do such a study would bump against the CDC conclusion and getting funding would be very difficult.
Medical studies are also notoriously problematic. A very high percentage are withdrawn or proven wrong.
There was increased risk for all males and particularly African-American males at the earliest age category. While it could point to other factors in further analyses, the most important fact is that the CDC tried to hide it.
Isn’t science supposed to be open and unbiased?
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Problem with this, that males being more at risk with autism is actually a general trend. Look at the numbers for autism based on gender and it is significantly higher for males. The age of the data involved I am not happy with either.
Now, don't misunderstand me. Because I think there are some flaws with the report doesn't mean there should be any 'cover-ups' or fraudulently changing data. Tampering with the data like that only holds back Science and it is the wrong way to go about it.
There is also socio-economics at play, where middle-class families are more likely to have their kids diagnosed and more likely to have the injection than someone from a poor background who doesn't get diagnosed ("stupid poor person") and doesn't get the injection (economics/other factors).
Last edited by Beskar; 08-25-2014 at 16:39.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Well, in that case modern western medicine is irreparably compromised. It greatest promoter was John. D. Rockefeller who only used homeopathy during his lifetime.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...-9158-3-16.pdf
This is presumably the paper behind Fisherking's links.
Problems:
1. Autism has already been found to have strong, if not determinate, congenital basis.
2. Almost nothing in the paper there is statistically significant, and the highest reported risk, 3.36 for black males receiving vaccine before 36 months, is actually trivial and sensational. If eating X food is reported to be associated with increased risk of cancer diagnosis of 300%, then that is similarly meaningless. Relative risk =/= absolute risk.
3. Boys are more likely to be diagnosed with autism across the board.
4. Children under the age of 3 at the time of testing for autism were excluded from analysis. The entire cohort was children born between 1986 and 1993. The testing was done in 1996, which is around the time that certain advances in diagnosis and changes in criteria made it so that the majority of diagnoses began to be made between 2-4 years-of-age, and the cut-off for autism diagnosis became something like age 10. Why would the author(s) of this paper want to exclude this key age-group? Moreover, why did the authors select a data series where most of those tested for autism would be relatively old for such screening? Interestingly, this would predetermine the analysis to ignore any cases in which autism was diagnosed before administration of the vaccine...
5. 18 vs. 24 vs. 36 months cutoffs for black males and the Relative Risks reported would indicate strongest association of autism diagnosis with vaccination between ages 24 and 36 months in black males. As far as I know, the anti-vaccine crowd claims that earlier vaccination will be associated with autism diagnosis. The paper does not address that concentration.
6. Small sample size in a restricted location.
This is about as legit as the (also purely statistical-analysis) paper Kad linked a while ago (also open-access) that tried to indicate genetic differences between whites and blacks that would purportedly generate an intelligence gap. Crap like this gives open-access a bad rep, which is unfortunate as the movement overall is a nice thing.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
The greatest promoter of modern western medicine were western states. A small European state like Norway, for example, funds modern medicine with ~60 billion USD a year. Rockefellers contributions are tiny in comparison.
Further, any and all statements by Rockefeller on medicine are completely irrelevant. You linked to "research"/statements by a crank site.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Last edited by HoreTore; 08-27-2014 at 19:15. Reason: edited in case the linkys confused people to believe there was only one link hiding beneath the blue text...
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Yeah, that blog-post made a lot of the points I made, which I am happy about, because it means someone else actually thought/agreed with what i said!
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
I know it's necromancy but I would just like to share something I found on fark.
http://www.fark.com/comments/8584014...artid=95244155
If you cant see the image on this post look for the comment by a fellow called manateegag.
Last edited by Greyblades; 02-04-2015 at 11:23.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
And child gets quarantined for 28 days because a non-vaxxer with measles visited before the baby could have its shots.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...-anti-vaxxers/
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Vaccinations should be mandatory. Period.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Back to the USSR.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
It's sad when even the USSR could better prevent outbreaks of nearly extinct diseases than the USA now.
Last edited by Greyblades; 02-05-2015 at 18:04.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Vaccination is not something that concerns only the person that gets vaccinated. As long as a redneck insists on not letting his children get vaccinated, all the members of its social circle that can't be vaccinated (babies, fragile health and etc.) are in danger.
Anticommunism is fine and all that, but the health care system of the Soveit Union was praised even by the West.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Sorry, knee jerk reaction to what I saw as a really stupid comment.
Last edited by Greyblades; 02-05-2015 at 18:22.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Mandatory vaccination here since 1815. That was admittably for smallpox, but you'll get the idea.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
If your kids die when they visit Disneyland, don't come crying to me.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Actually, your stereotypical "redneck" almost always vaccinates their kids, in part because they are not gonna train up to home school and won't shell out to fund private school. While some of our underclass don't bother with vaccinations, most of those unvaccinated in the USA are so because of parental choice. Moreover, nearly as many left wing "granola" types are choosing to not fill their children with "toxins" or "poisons" as are right wing elites who think it beneath them.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Given that the vector for Disneyland was an unvaccinated adult returning from an overseas trip...
I would only allow visas/passports to be valid if the holder has up to date vaccinations OR is willing to pay for quarantine on entrybto the country.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Mega-Church lead by Anti-vaxxor just became infested with measles.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...e-vaccinations
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
So I shouldn't lick a lollipop in public because a diabetic may want to do the same, but he can't, and his mouth will start to water and he may choke with saliva? So I shouldn't listen to music, because a deaf person may see it and get jealous, and consequently get upset and his blood pressure will rise and he will get a stroke? One can't be responsible for others if it infringes upon his own freedom of choice.
Did I say my kid wasn't vaccinated? But the side effects she had every time she was will make me think twice before doing this again. And I must say she was lucky to have the side effects she had. Every now and then I hear reports of kids in Ukraine go blind or deaf or even die after/as a result of vaccination. I nearly died when I was vaccinated against tuberculosis, so throughout my whole school years I knew I had to run for the hills when the school nurse mentioned БЦЖ revaccination. Soviet health care (so greatly praised here) employees would not take no for an answer in questions of vaccinations.
The problem with it is not vaccination as a phenomenon, but in the way it is done, at least now.
First of all, vaccines that are supposed to be given to Ukainian kids are provided by the state. The latter does very little to make sure those were safe ones. A couple of years ago there was a great uproar in Ukraine when it became clear that kids had problems after a specific vaccine (don't remember what disease it was supposed to prevent). As it turned out, this vaccine was the winner of a tender announced by the health care ministry. The head of the ministry (Raisa Bogatyrova) was the mother of the director of the pharmaceutical plant that produced the said vaccine and won the tender. And guess what? The vaccination (with this vaccine) wasn't stopped until mothers started to officially refuse to get their kids vaccinated. And similar cases (when vaccines turn out outright dangerous for the kids) are quite usual here. Moreover, do you know what other components (except the vaccine itself) the medication contains? Parents here are not told about it, yet some of them have lead as a component, which can hardly be what the doctor orders (unless it is a medieval doctor).
Conclusion: you can not be sure (at least in Ukraine) that the vaccines your kids get are up to the task.
Second of all, before the procedure you must see the doctor to make sure your kid is healthy enough to be vaccinated. This means standing in a line with plenty of not healthy kids scuttling around, coughing and sneezing at you and your so-far-healthy kid. Then you proceed to the vaccination room and again wait in the line while the corridor is full of plenty of... am I repeating myself?
Conclusion: you can't be sure that your kid won't contract anything while waiting for the vaccination thus making the kid subject to more serious consequences of side effects (if there are any).
So vaccination as an idea may be a perfect one, but when it comes to implementing it, it turns out that the map is not the territory. Communism as an idea was also a perfect one.
That is because these diseases (after initial suppression) didn't permeate through the iron curtain. If the USA introduces one, you will get rid of them in a couple of years.
Last edited by Gilrandir; 02-07-2015 at 15:45.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Perhaps. It must be acknowledged that police states are more capable of sweeping programs to affect their internal population than states that allow broad personal freedoms.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
That's named natural selection, according to the evolution theory.Mega-Church lead by Anti-vaxxor just became infested with measles.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...e-vaccinations
Clearly invalid comparisons.So I shouldn't lick a lollipop in public because a diabetic may want to do the same, but he can't, and his mouth will start to water and he may choke with saliva? So I shouldn't listen to music, because a deaf person may see it and get jealous, and consequently get upset and his blood pressure will rise and he will get a stroke? One can't be responsible for others if it infringes upon his own freedom of choice.
The most obvious point is that your surrealist examples depend on how the victim will react, while the infected people don't really have a choice of not being infected.
Last edited by Crandar; 02-07-2015 at 18:34. Reason: Quote added.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
So I must take a risk of running side effects and/or сomplications after a vaccination to make others happy? If these others are aware of their problem, let them wear masks (as people in Asia often do) or take other precautions they find neccessary. Everyone ought to take proper care of oneself and not look for shifting responsibilty onto others.
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
I think those masks only really work if the infected wear them, as they are meant to stop fluids from your own mouth from being spread around too much. Unless you meant to say that people in asia often wear gas masks, but that would be news to me.
http://dhss.delaware.gov/dhss/dph/fi...lumasksfaq.txt
http://www.healthline.com/health/cold-flu/mask* Using surgical masks will not fully protect you from being infected. Hand-washing, isolating
infected patients, and covering the mouth and nose when coughing also help to reduce to
the risk of infection.
[...]
* Surgical masks are not tested against specific microorganisms and do not prevent specific
diseases.
80 percent, when you're around one infected person. Probably good enough if the government forces everyone to wear such a mask, but if you're the only one, I recommend a hazmat suit.Family members of children with flu-like illnesses who used the masks properly were 80 percent less likely to be diagnosed with the illness.
Or vaccination.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: If your child is not vaccinated, they should be barred from attending public scho
Well, yes you should, as it concerns health and not happiness, while the positive effects of vaccination clearly outweigh extremely rare implications you might suffer from.
It's your responsibility to keep everyone else safe from yourself.
By your logic, the victims of road accidents caused by people who drove under influence should blame themselves rather than the intoxicated drivers.
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