Speaking of Israel...

[Tellos Athenaios]

and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.

More seriously, it has frankly become an embarrassment to plenty of its own citizens.

To the west it is a liability with a severe case of psychopathy at best, and a little hellhole actively competing for "most insidous caste system based on ethnicity and religious fundamentalism" at worst.

Case in point: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...851982465.html

The sooner we disentangle ourselves from this entirely, the better. Who knows, it might even give us the opportunity to formulate a sane strategy towards the Middle East that gets us something in return.

[Fragony]

Looks like earlier speculations of the Palestinian kid being a victim of a family feud were wrong. He was probably burned alive by extremist jews. How can you do such a thing. Pouring gasoline over someone and actually set someone on fire. How screwed up can you be, that boy probably never hurted anyone. fu

[Beskar]

How can you do such a thing. Pouring gasoline over someone and actually set someone on fire. How screwed up can you be, that boy probably never hurted anyone.

Exactly that. Monsters don't have borders and neither do innocents.

[Hooahguy]

Pretty amusing to hear the stammering from my extremely Zionist friends: "Oh no, the people who did this probably were those Israeli Christians or something, a Jew could never do this" and "Im sure they are just lying or something, Haaretz is clearly Palestinian propaganda!" and even worse, "that kid deserved it for the murders of the three the Palestinians murdered."

The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

[Greyblades]

An eye for an eye destroys the sunglasses industry... I might be remembering that wrong.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Pretty amusing to hear the stammering from my extremely Zionist friends: "Oh no, the people who did this probably were those Israeli Christians or something, a Jew could never do this" and "Im sure they are just lying or something, Haaretz is clearly Palestinian propaganda!" and even worse, "that kid deserved it for the murders of the three the Palestinians murdered."

The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

Well, it does say "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life"

If you want to see it in a literally Biblical context, then for every "Jew" the "Palestinians" kill and death should be returned in kind - until all the Palestinians are dead, down to the last man, woman, and child.

Like the Amonites.

[Pannonian]

Well, it does say "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life"

If you want to see it in a literally Biblical context, then for every "Jew" the "Palestinians" kill and death should be returned in kind - until all the Palestinians are dead, down to the last man, woman, and child.

Like the Amonites.

The Amonites were already on a lengthy decline when they were finally finished off by the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. No need to blame the Israelites for that.

[lars573]

The Amonites were already on a lengthy decline when they were finally finished off by the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. No need to blame the Israelites for that.

Actually the Ammonites are still going 70 billion strong. Despite a 16 million year civil war.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Amonites were already on a lengthy decline when they were finally finished off by the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. No need to blame the Israelites for that.

There was actually a point to my post.

God told Samuel that the Amonites were all evil, and that was why they all had to die.

I'm sure the Israelis who think it's OK to kill Palestinians think they're all evil - yes - I'm absolutely serious.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Exactly that. Monsters don't have borders and neither do innocents.

"If you gaze for long enough into the abyss....."

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...The whole "blood for blood" thing makes me sick. Unfriended a few people from facebook over this.

I kept looking at this closing line....it could almost stand as an epigram for your generation.

[Hooahguy]

Well, it really is the best way to cut someone you dont see everyday from your life. Besides most of those calling for blood who I know are mostly in Israel now, which means Im not interested in talking to them anyways.

[Beskar]

"If you gaze for long enough into the abyss....."

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

[Myth]

Why don't they just move? I'm sure there's plenty of land in the US midwest for example and no one will be killing them etc.

[Greyblades]

Why don't they just move? I'm sure there's plenty of land in the US midwest for example and no one will be killing them etc.

The same reason the mexicans can't.

[Hooahguy]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

Well the full quote is

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

so if I had to guess it probably means something along the lines of that people tend to become the thing that they are fighting after a long enough period. A classic example of this occurring would be Animal Farm.

[Hooahguy]

Why don't they just move? I'm sure there's plenty of land in the US midwest for example and no one will be killing them etc.

See, you cannot truly expect a people to just get up and completely move, whether it be the Israelis or the Palestinians. Both sides has too many chips in play for them to relocate.

[Beskar]

See, you cannot truly expect a people to just get up and completely move, whether it be the Israelis or the Palestinians. Both sides has too many chips in play for them to relocate.

UKIP propaganda lied to me.

[Husar]

Pff, non-europeans are so inflexible...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well the full quote is

so if I had to guess it probably means something along the lines of that people tend to become the thing that they are fighting after a long enough period. A classic example of this occurring would be Animal Farm.

It's supposed to be about not using the enemies foul tactics against them, the so called "4ace to the bottom" where both sides try to outdo each other in nastiness.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

Pretty much. Both sides' protracted intransigence has allowed them to fall into this cognitively simple, but ultimately self-defeating rut.

If you stop thinking of the other side as a group of persons with hopes, dreams, aspirations, limited perception etc. -- just as you yourself possess -- it is all too easy to de-humanize them. The only way to win then is via eradication of the opponent -- which history teaches us always exacts a harsh if delayed price on the victor as well.

Rome's eradication of Carthage led, over time, to the destruction of the Roman Republic.

The USSR's eradication of Nazi Germany did damage that modern Russia is still coping with, and ended up creating the context for the USSR's own dissolution.

etc.


Plus, quoting Nietzche always has that "badass" cachet.....

[Hooahguy]

I find it both amusing and frustrating how self-centered my friends on facebook are about the escalation in Israel. So many statuses and pictures on how the world isnt paying attention enough to Israel. "Oh noes there are rockets raining down on Israel and its not the top story of every news agency. Nevermind the fact that there are thousands dying in Syria, theres a civil war going on in Ukraine, bloody cartel wars in Central and South America, and other crises going on around the globe, but noooooo everyone has to fall into your narrow worldview, and gods forbid someone say they simply do not care enough about whats going on in tiny relatively insignificant country. Of course I told some people this in long-winded comments to their cries that nobody is paying attention, but in three cases my comment was deleted with no response by the OP, and in one case, I was even unfriended for my comment which is perfectly OK by me.
Ugh such stupidity and sheer ignorance of how the world works.

/rant

[a completely inoffensive name]

Save your anger on more meaningful things. Block idiots on facebook and don't pay attention to them anymore.

[Ronin]

this will never be resolved....having visited Israel a few years ago it's impressive how even middle-class young IT professionals can turn irrational over a simple discussion of the politics of the area at lunch.
and we all know the proclivities of the hard core element on the other side.

2 groups of people can´t live in peace if they do not want to do so, and both sides have to much blood on their hands to claim to be a straight cut "good guy" in the situation.

it's political incorrect to say it, but possibly the situation could only be resolved by erecting a wall around both sides, providing both with weapons and letting them solve their issues, and let the chips fall were they may.

[Papewaio]

The one good point about supporting Israel is we can say we are meddling in the Middle East and it isn't for oil...

[Fragony]

I am curious as to what you mean with that question in this regard, are you thinking of the framing where one side thinks "palestinians are all the monsters" and the opposite?

It's from Nietschze 'if you gaze long enough in the abysd the abyss gazes into you'

[Ironside]

Relevant video.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

.... Block idiots on facebook and don't pay attention to them anymore.

I'd be blocking half my friends and most of my relatives....would get sorta quiet.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, in the long term Israel MUST annex the West Bank if it is to survive, that means they Palestinians must either be killed or forced out. However, it's foolish to assume the Arabs will, not at some point, produce a new Saladin which means that Israel will ultimately be destroyed after is his killed enough Arabs to convince the remaining Arabs to make a concerted effort to force the Israelis out.

Again.

Rinse and repeat in 500 years.

The only way to break the cycle is for the Israelis to integrate, but they can't because they're Jews and the surrounding people are Muslims.

The punchline, of course, is that some Jews did integrate - at the start of the last century they were living in Jerusalem, in Jaffa etc. They had integrated and converted to Islam - we call these people "Palestinians".

[Hooahguy]

So much idiocy in one article.

Gods forbid that the POTUS call for restraint on both sides. Its almost as if he wants there to be peace and for people not to die!