People with culture enriching UK schools...

[HoreTore]

No, but can you rule out any intention

There is no evidence to back up any intention.

Money always determines where one lives - the point is it's not a government plot

It's definitely not a government plot - but it is government policy. Not the part about keeping immigrants together, but that about keeping housing prices high. Someone living in a nice area wants their housing price rising, which means they will oppose any measure likely to reduce the price of their home(like public housing or other social welfare stuff). These things will then be concentrated in certain areas, and the housing prices of those areas will be much, much lower than other places. Newly arrived immigrants lacking in funds will move there.

It's not government policy to create ghettos, but the sum of other government policies and the desires of the population will create ghettos, even if nobody really wants ghettos. An example of the tragedy of the commons. It is possible to avoid ghetto formation(or rather, areas with very low housing prices) and create a city where the housing price is more equal across the entire city. This means you have to convince the wealthy to accept services in their neighborhood likely to drive prices down, and that's a tough ask.

[rory_20_uk]

To support the UK economy we need to have the latest bubble since we don't make enough real things we need to create fake money.

I'd go further than "tough job" to "impossible" - those with loads of money will flit off elsewhere, those that remain will never forgive the system that "took" all that money out of their house price.

I think that there are things that can be done to at least reduce the rate of house price inflation and reduce house prices and that would be to simply replace council tax bands with a flat percentage of the worth of the property - oh, I'm sure that there are those able to pay tens of thousands of pounds annually to live somewhere but most can't.

But again - how does one impliment that? Suddenly making almost everyone in negative equity at the stroke of a pen. With something like a 10 year notice period and then a very slow increase perhaps it might work. Might loose a lot of votes as well of course.

[Fragony]

There is no evidence to back up any intention.

If there would be it would be left out of the rapport because it's England. Same happened with the massive rape case were people with culture were involved. No less than 1300 victims but social harmony was too important.

Social harmony, big lol

[HoreTore]

If there would be it would be left out of the rapport because it's England. Same happened with the massive rape case were people with culture were involved. No less than 1300 victims but social harmony was too important.

Social harmony, big lol

Come back when you have some actual evidence. You can't just point at some random school and say 'this is happening' without having any sort of evidence suggesting it is so.

Further, the suggestion that these things will be hidden is ridicolous. The premise of the media coverage is the exact opposite, where they are exaggerating the issue and building a story of supposed islamisation(the exact thing you claim would be hidden).

Paranoia.

[Fragony]

Come back when you have some actual evidence. You can't just point at some random school and say 'this is happening' without having any sort of evidence suggesting it is so.

Further, the suggestion that these things will be hidden is ridicolous. The premise of the media coverage is the exact opposite, where they are exaggerating the issue and building a story of supposed islamisation(the exact thing you claim would be hidden).

Paranoia.

It's always defendable and you can always relativate it, taking in small peaces it's always an uphill battle for islamrealists. But in the meantime there are erea's all over Europe that you can call nothing other than islamised. This just one of the many examples.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Starting with the last, I left that one out because I am unsure of how assemblies work in the UK. If it's common and/or legal to have a christian service in british schools, I see no problems switching that with an Islamic one, given that most/all the students are muslims. If it's not legal to hold christian services in assemblies, then it's a problem. That they haven't recieved permission to do it isn't something I care about. That's just red tape.

After the War, when the government took over thr running and funding of schools from the Church they enshrined in law the requirement for a Christian act of worship once a week. It's an archaic law now, but the fact is that you have to apply for the exemption or you're breaking the law.

It's clear that the religion subject is in a mess. The report, however, makes it clear that this is due to a lack of planning, rather than an intended thing. If they employ a religion teacher and tell him/her nothing other than "teach religion"(which seems to be what's happened), then you will obviously get mostly the religion the teacher is familiar with, in this case Islam. To those who care about religion and culture and such other nonsense, I'm sure that's an issue for cultural understanding(damn lefties).

It's undoubtably a mess. It is not, however, a sign of a planned extremist indoctrination.

It's actually quite difficult NOT to teach about other religions, a brief perusal of the National Curriculum will tell you what needs to be taught and why. Failure to do so is cross incompetence or corruption.

Note that I saw an interview with some children in an affiliated senior school. They were told they couldn't have boyfriends/girlfriends "because it was against Islam". At that point another boy (not being interviewed) piped up and said "yeah, but it's not an Islamic School, it's a Secular State School."

His parents are obviously switched on.

[HoreTore]

Failure to do so is cross incompetence.

Unquestionable, to me that's what the report highlights.

When you hire temps for a few weeks at a time and tell them to go teach religion with no instruction at all, that's pretty much what you get.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Do you really need to have communities to start voting for sharia law before you realize that proper immigration is more than just a background check to prevent suicide bombers?

[Fragony]

Do you really need to have communities to start voting for sharia law before you realize that proper immigration is more than just a background check to prevent suicide bombers?

Violent islam is pretty much non-existant. Let me put it this way; if you leave your country and want to take it with you anyway, than you are not an immigrant but a colonist. Immigrants from muslim countries are welcome, I have nothing against them. But I don't give a bloody-sucked fuck about their traditions and sensibilities. Get the fuck back if it makes it so hard. Piss off. Go love your sheep and herd your wives. Go away.

[Montmorency]

Some on the right - including Fragony - have suggested that the problem is fundamentally with Islam, while Muslim people are basically OK.

It's actually the exact opposite.

Well, not quite. Muslim people aren't all that bad. It's just that they're by culture very conservative by our standards.

But importantly, Islam is nothing. Extreme expressions of Islam are the result of conservative culture squared. Islam in itself is just a name for certain sets of customs, which are indeed quite flexible, as history and experience with other religions demonstrates.

Islam is no exceptional bogeyman that taints everything associated with it, as the 'phobes have it. Keep the Islam, and use it as a tool in bringing Muslim immigrants around to an explicitly social-leftist orientation.

The real problem is the local Christian right, which would hinder this program and beyond that foster unneeded mutual animosity so they can have their next holy war.

[Husar]

If you want flexibility, go ahead as an example and convert to Islam.

Of course if people come here and then complain about our entire culture and country that is pretty strange, on the other hand many of us only greet them with hostility and distance so it's not all that surprising that our culture doesn't always seem inviting or positive to immigrants. Basically the DDR was a better place in that respect, they welcomed the Chilean communists with open arms back when they had to flee because of the coup. Nowadays these Chileans are mostly well-integrated AFAIK.

[Fragony]

If you want flexibility, go ahead as an example and convert to Islam.

Of course if people come here and then complain about our entire culture and country that is pretty strange, on the other hand many of us only greet them with hostility and distance so it's not all that surprising that our culture doesn't always seem inviting or positive to immigrants. Basically the DDR was a better place in that respect, they welcomed the Chilean communists with open arms back when they had to flee because of the coup. Nowadays these Chileans are mostly well-integrated AFAIK.

Some on the right - including Fragony - have suggested that the problem is fundamentally with Islam, while Muslim people are basically OK.

It's actually the exact opposite.

Well, not quite. Muslim people aren't all that bad. It's just that they're by culture very conservative by our standards.

But importantly, Islam is nothing. Extreme expressions of Islam are the result of conservative culture squared. Islam in itself is just a name for certain sets of customs, which are indeed quite flexible, as history and experience with other religions demonstrates.

Islam is no exceptional bogeyman that taints everything associated with it, as the 'phobes have it. Keep the Islam, and use it as a tool in bringing Muslim immigrants around to an explicitly social-leftist orientation.

The real problem is the local Christian right, which would hinder this program and beyond that foster unneeded mutual animosity so they can have their next holy war.

Don't associate me with the right I don't want to have anything to do with them. It's just as so long as pragmatism and common sense exists the multiculteral left is in it's way. Before you get the wrong idea, I have nothing against muslims and immigrants in general. Welcome np. It's the multicultrural left that is dangerous, they will never change their mind.

[Kadagar_AV]

People with culture enrich the Swedish schools too.

To finish high school or get a gymnasium diploma, you need a G (lowest grade) in at least:
* English.
* Mathematics
* Swedish OR Swedish as second language.

As you see, the bar isn't set very high. Like at all, heck, they don't even need to understand Swedish on any higher level.

Yet, new figures are absolutely scary. Africans stand out negatively.


EDIT: in Sweden, high school are for youths 13-15, and gymnasium for people 16-18.

Don't get me started on the lack of Africans at university, or how completely bad the few getting in are doing.
* 35% of people born in other countries don't finish high school.

* More than 50% of those born in Afrika don't finish high school.

* Even Africans that have lived in Sweden for more than 10 years, have 26% who don't qualify for gymnasium

* Africans who are have lived here 4 years or less have 76% not qualified for gymnasium.


Our declining results internationally can thus, partly, be directly blamed on a massive amount of African immigration.

Also, we are creating a new working class, that don't even qualify for the most basic jobs, as high school education is the very minimum required for pretty much any job, cleaning jobs aside.

[Fragony]

Kinda funny, gymnasition is the highest level here. Puts some articles in perspective.

[Kadagar_AV]

Kinda funny, gymnasition is the highest level here. Puts some articles in perspective.

I don't quite get what you mean, could you elaborate?

[Fragony]

I don't quite get what you mean, could you elaborate?

In the Netherlands the gymnasium is a free pass to university really, we have various levels

Vmbo a/b/c/d <- not for the brightest
Havo, somewhat in the middle
VWO/Ahteneum, same level Gymasium except for not gettin Latin and Greek.
Gymnasium, VWO level emmidiatly, no selection first year