Does anyone use these preset formations?

[Sp4]

I know it probably sounds silly but I've only just gone and read through what these do, while I was playing around with the prologue campaign.



I'll actually play a campaign and see how useful they are lol. Maybe I'll stop complaining about having to redo formations all the time =x

[Hooahguy]

Sometimes I will use the double line when Im fighting against a stronger enemy and need the reserve component to reinforce parts of the line which are faltering. Its a useful tool though!

[Sp4]

I did a few custom battles with different factions and noticed that different cultures have different formations. Hellenic factions will have some pike centric formations with light infantry and cav on the flanks, Germanic tribes have very hard hitting formations, with lots of heavy infantry in the center while with Rome, you can actually put them in the formation they used before the state started equipping its citizen infantry and they ended up being equipped in largely the same way.

It is kind of neat.

[Kamakazi]

im not sure ive ever used one of the premades.... generally I micromanage the whole campaign

[Slaists]

they are useful to quickly put the whole force in reasonable order (once you get the hang of the culture specific formations). from that point, probably still want to manage things separately (flank 1, center, flank 2, reserve, skirmishers, cavalry, etc.)

[Sp4]

It's nice to put stuff into a rought sort of order but then, 90% of the time, I end up wanting to do something very specific and then it all breaks apart over the course of the battle anyways.

[Myth]

The one that puts the pikes in the middle and the rest of the infantry to the sides.

[Slaists]

Roman double, triple axis are pretty useful too. Actually, it's a real pain in the ... to do the checkerboard formation by hand without the preset, LOL.

[hoom]

I used to use 'single line' on one of the earlier games because it was hard to get a proper straight line.

But nearly always I have set custom formations with basically main line/missiles/reserve, left/right flanks, cav groups.

Actually, it's a real pain in the ... to do the checkerboard formation by hand without the preset

Here is a trick for making a 2 line version (not mine, got it off TWC somewhere back in Rome1 time):
Just select the units left to right alternating Hastati Principes Hastati Principes etc.
Drag out the line where you want the Hastati to go, should be in alternate order that you selected them.
Select all the Principes, ctrl + group for hold formation group & drag them back to where you want.
Select them all & ctrl + group again, now you can move them around & they will keep the checkerboard formation.

For 3rd line I normally drag them out, pick out the gap units & ctrl + group them into place manually.

[Slaists]

A neat trick.

At least, in RTW 2 we don't have to do this. The presets do it in one click.

Some RTW 1 mods had checkerboard presets for Romans too.

p.s. I am surprised they stay in the order you pick them when you drag the line. I've tried something similar and units get reordered when dragging out, with principes on one flank, hastati on the other.

[Sp4]

Yes. by default, it sorts the unity from heaviest to lightest from left to right, which in truth, is not such a bad thing, seeing as it should allow you to turn a flank ^^

[hoom]

The trick is to do the locked group, they keep their positions relative to each other.

[Slaists]

The trick is to do the locked group, they keep their positions relative to each other.

yes, but while you're dragging them out in a line you cannot use locked group. you have to lock it after the dragging out part. the auto-reshuffling for me happens during the dragging out part.

in other words if H stands for hastati and P for principes and you make a selection of

H-P-H-P-H-P

and then drag this out to get a smooth line, it would get auto-reshuffled into

H-H-H-P-P-P

Anyway, the point is moot for RTW 2. Here we can use the double/triple axis presets.

[hoom]

Select, drag, group.
They keep order for me

[al Roumi]

I've used the auto formations alot sicne the game's release. Surprised you didn't notice them... I use them to set up and then usually some pre-mosh manuevering, unless it's a fiddly set up like in a city or on a hill crest. I try to RP a bit too so I tend to use the culture's formations, as well as a balanced force composition.

Am I right in recalling that the sorting of strongest similar units to the right is consistent with the make up of phalanxes in hstory? The hardest unit went on the right where they were least protected by comrades shields, hoping that they could hold out whil ehte weaker troops enjoyed the better protection to the left of the line. I always wondered how phalanx lines didn't just wheel round anti-clockwise if all the strongest units were on each others' right end of the line...

[Sp4]

I did read something about that at some point but I don't remember.

I've found out something pretty amazing today though. If you put units into a default formation (any of them, not just the three 'native' ones) and then tell the whole group to attack an enemy unit in the center of the enemy army, the group will hold formation and attempt to engage whatever is in their path instead of trying to go for the same enemy unit. That way, you can make your whole army engage an enemy formation, in formation and you don't have to do anything, leaving you free to do stuff with cavalry or microing light/shock infantry. I am surprised it didn't mention any of this at any point in the tutorial, because it is pretty genius.

[Slaists]

I did read something about that at some point but I don't remember.

I've found out something pretty amazing today though. If you put units into a default formation (any of them, not just the three 'native' ones) and then tell the whole group to attack an enemy unit in the center of the enemy army, the group will hold formation and attempt to engage whatever is in their path instead of trying to go for the same enemy unit. That way, you can make your whole army engage an enemy formation, in formation and you don't have to do anything, leaving you free to do stuff with cavalry or microing light/shock infantry. I am surprised it didn't mention any of this at any point in the tutorial, because it is pretty genius.

It has to be a "locked" formation (preset formations do worked as "locked") and you have to hold CTRL while issuing the attack command.

This was mentioned in the tutorial, at least when I played it (last September). At that point though, the CTRL + attack did not work for "soft lock" (which applies to presets) only for "hard lock" groups. At some point, with patches, the CTRL + attack started working for "soft lock" formations as well.

This type of attack does not perform well if one wants to maintain any form of line though.

Reserves should be kept separate from the attacking group too otherwise they'll get mingled in.

p.s. Another useful feature is to leave your main attacking line under AI control in "defend this location" group stance if you can get to deploy close to the enemy in an ambush battle. Your whole line will engage enemy units right in front of them and do it simultaneously. Otherwise, you lose time hectically issuing attack commands individually and the ambushee gets to reorganize. Similarly, AI control "attack this target" is nice when attacking blobs blocking wall breaches. The AI will push forward and select fresh targets as the initial ones get defeated; this is a tad difficult to do manually in blob situations. Unfortunately, the AI can go crazy at times with special abilities (and exhaust your units as a result).

I don't recommend using any "AI control" with Roman infantry. Roman AI is programmed to go into testudo whenever there are any enemy missile units nearby...

[Sp4]

Lol. I've not seen them do a testudo in that case yet. I'll have to play around with the AI control a bit though.

[Slaists]

Lol. I've not seen them do a testudo in that case yet. I'll have to play around with the AI control a bit though.

I tend to use an AI controlled attack group (3-4 units bundled in group) to storm breaches. Breaches are likely to be under heavy missile fire from the defenders (+ the towers if any are nearby). This triggers the Roman AI go into testudo formation (useless in this case).

[hoom]

I always wondered how phalanx lines didn't just wheel round anti-clockwise if all the strongest units were on each others' right end of the line...

This actually did happen historically with Hoplite phalanx.
Even exacerbated by the guys to the left edging to the right for cover from their neighbours shield often causing the stronger Right flank to also have an overlap.

There is a particular famous battle that I can't currently remember the name of where the clashing phalanxes did a full 180 rotation during battle.

[al Roumi]

There is a particular famous battle that I can't currently remember the name of where the clashing phalanxes did a full 180 rotation during battle.

Silly greeks. Did they then break and plunder each other's baggage trains?

[Sp4]

Silly greeks. Did they then break and plunder each other's baggage trains?

They chased each other in circles until everyone was tired.