America sinks into chaos and brutality as police shoot at reporters

[Fisherking]

And so it turns out that the kid was indeed a thug, having just robbed a convenience store before being shot. That same store was later burned down by these animals, which is the real story here. What about the store owner who was robbed and assaulted by Brown and then had his store looted and burned to the ground by his friends? Why did a large number of blacks take this as an opportunity to loot and destroy wholly unrelated private businesses? That's true injustice... Not some street thug that ran out of luck.

While I sympathize with those calling out the militarization of the police and hope that this episode shines a light on the issue, in a lot of these 'communities of color', the cops are essentially zookeepers and I have a hard time faulting them for militarizing in the face of a community so prone to looting and destruction.

Not exactly the story I heard.

When they released the name of the officer involved they said he was responding to a robbery and Brown fit the general description. Not that he was the perpetrator. They did say that the officer was treated for injuries sustained on Saturday, but gave no details of what they were or when or where they were sustained.

If you have more details give us a link and fill us in.

Meantime, they still have not interviewed the man who says he was with Brown at the time and considering the claim that he may have been a robbery suspect it would seem something they would have wanted to do, if it is true.

Usually the police just say the individual tried to grab may gun.

There is never a good excuse for looting or arson.

Like you I am worried about the rest of the response.
There is also no excuse for many of the police have done. I don’t think we need a laundry list.

The rate of shooting by police is the worrying part as well as their militarization and proliferation of armored vehicles and heavy weaponry. And this is not just in high crime areas. You can find it in almost any town or county across the country.

The attitude of police just about everywhere has become more aggressive. The training and response much more military with a tendency to escalate violence rather than prevent it.

[Strike For The South]

Good Riddance to bad rubbish

And lets burn our neighborhood to boot

And lets protest by looting auto body shops.

This is not a protest, this a riot.

I also don't know when this became about the militarization of the police. Another kid gets shot and the neighborhood starts eating itself.

[PanzerJaeger]

In the vein of MLK's March on Washington, the black community in Ferguson reacts to the repression and injustice of institutional racism manifested each day in gas stations and convenience stores across America.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...
Cops are cowards. They're good at using force on those who cannot fight back. ....

You really need to back the _____off. Yes, there have been police who have mis-used force through poor training, poor decision-making, and sometimes a streak of sadism that slipped through all the screening programs.

The large bulk of police officers are neither cowards nor heroes. They are called to service because they like order, or want to catch bad guys, or like authority, or want to...believe it or not....protect and serve. They then get to rub elbows with the most amoral, they work long hours under ever present threat, they never know when the next call is somebody who wants to commit suicide by cop and doesn't mind killing a cop or two to make that happen. Into the bargain, most of them are treated with less respect than people give their dentists -- and you wonder where the jadedness comes from? Why too many cops adopt a "cop versus them" mentality? If anything I am proud of how few of them succumb to it.

So is there too much militarization...Yes. Are too many cops abusing their power...yes, even though it is a small percentage it worsens the problem. Are we in need of some fresh thinking where policing comes in....absolutely.

But that "coward" kisses her children goodbye and unlike my fat academic ass she ALWAYS has to wonder in the back of her mind if it is goodbye and not see you later. Just like that 19 year old who was more interested in college benefits and a way out his slack neighborhood than in patrolling some hill on the side of the Khyber pass -- some of them get jaded by circumstance, make damn fool choices, or even does something he knows is wrong.

You'd do better to show a touch of sympathy and focus on the systemic issues that create the problem rather than lashing out with the bovine-excrement cowardice charges.

[rvg]

You'd do better to show a touch of sympathy and focus on the systemic issues that create the problem rather than lashing out with the bovine-excrement cowardice charges.

Hey, to each their own. You've had your experiences with cops and I've had mine. To be perfectly honest from my experiences, I hate their guts. There's too much scum there who are looking to abuse people around them while totally immune from retaliation by the virtue of having a badge. Furthermore, they cover up for one another and do everything to prevent the really rotten ones from being rooted out. Your experiences may vary, but that doesn't invalidate mine.

[PanzerJaeger]

The large bulk of police officers are neither cowards nor heroes. They are called to service because they like order, or want to catch bad guys, or like authority, or want to...believe it or not....protect and serve.

The canonization of the police is just as bad, if not worse, than that of Michael Brown. The primary driver in law enforcement employment is economic. It offers well above average pay/benefits/pensions for a below average education level and skill set. These people are certainly not our best and brightest, and would be working in factories or warehouses otherwise.

It's a union job in an era when union jobs are hard to come by. The power of those unions allows officers to work only as hard as they wish and get away with all manner of malfeasance with little risk of termination. They also happen to be driving many of our largest metropolitan areas into bankruptcy, and this kind of glorification gives them the clout to do so.

Cops are government workers no different than those who work at the DMV or any other bureaucratic dredge of an agency and should be thought of as such. They are certainly not deserving of reverence.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The riots are absolutely disgusting and it looks like the kid was not a Saint. I guess I am the only one who really wanted to make this about police militarization. So I will just leave that topic with this. For all of those armored ATVs and ar-15s, I would have figured they could have stopped the ladies foot locker from being looted. Pretty sure there are plenty of videos on YouTube where Korean store owners protected their property during the LA riots with just a few handguns.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The whole thing sounds a lot like what happened in the UK with the police shooting of Mark Duggan and the riots that followed.

It was the same story of police with an itchy trigger finger, shooting a black guy who turned out to be far from a saint, and prompting a protest against police brutality/racism that soon descended into violence and looting.

Just as with Duggan's case, there are faults all round in this American scenario, but the militarization of the police should be the biggest concern to come out of all this. Why is it that your police look far less like a police force than they do an army?

[HoreTore]

Why is it that your police look far less like a police force than they do an army?

Three words:

Tough on crime.


America screams for more punishment. This incident is the natural result of that wish.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Three words:

Tough on crime.


America screams for more punishment. This incident is the natural result of that wish.

Personally I would say economics is the reason. Tough on crime is directed towards harsher sentencing and minimum punishment for even basic pot possession. It's aimed at keeping people in jail not armament of police. The draw down over seas and economic down turns are the biggest factors IMO.

[Ironside]

Good Riddance to bad rubbish

And lets burn our neighborhood to boot

And lets protest by looting auto body shops.

This is not a protest, this a riot.

I also don't know when this became about the militarization of the police. Another kid gets shot and the neighborhood starts eating itself.

Probably around the time the Ferguson police had less in common with American soldiers peacekeeping in Afghanistan/Iraq, than outright jackboot occupation. They're in assult gear, not riot gear and have an attitude taken from the textbook "How to make the population fear, mistrust and hate me".
It also leaves quite a bit of credibility about the accusations that the original peaceful protests were provoked and aggressivly met (also known as how to provoke a riot).

It doesn't help that the Ferguson police got a credible rep of being abusive and racist.

Just as with Duggan's case, there are faults all round in this American scenario, but the militarization of the police should be the biggest concern to come out of all this. Why is it that your police look far less like a police force than they do an army?

Mostly the Iraqi war. The police are outright given or sold military equipment very cheaply. And if you have that gear, then you want to use it, even when it has no purpose in the police normally.

That explains the looks, but not the attitude.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Firstly it sounds to me like the "young man" probably should have been shot. Based on the character hit-piece, this was a massive scumbag who liked to rob convenience stores openly, get aggressive and then intimidate little old Indian men who had just been robbed. It isn't a far stretch to assume that he would have become absurdly aggressive with police when confronted with a mild infraction and possibly gone for their holster. Its a terrible situation that people put themselves into a persona that needs to be "put down" like a dog to protect other people from being hurt or killed over things a as absurd as a handful of slimjims.

Secondly, the heavy handed response to the protests surrounding this shooting are totally unacceptable. Heavily armed police do nothing to calm situations down, if anything they exacerbate them. Those guys should probably be on standby, but actual people who look like they belong in the community are the best face to help the crowd run out of steam. AR's and APC's are wildly overkill. Targeting the press and suppressing coverage are unconstitutional and a national disgrace.

[HoreTore]

Firstly it sounds to me like the "young man" probably should have been shot.

Isn't it the job of the courts to decide that....?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Isn't it the job of the courts to decide that....?

I can't unlike your post for some reason, I meant to respond to it.

Maybe, but when a police officer makes a credible allegation that someone went for their gun and was attempting to overtake a police officer due to a jay walking citation, they should automatically need to be taken to court and have their life ruined. If they made a mistake and escalated a situation then yes, possibly.

[HoreTore]

I can't unlike your post for some reason, I meant to respond to it.

Maybe, but when a police officer makes a credible allegation that someone went for their gun and was attempting to overtake a police officer due to a jay walking citation, they should automatically need to be taken to court and have their life ruined. If they made a mistake and escalated a situation then yes, possibly.

So you want the police to be able to act as a court and jury, as well as decide for themselves which situations that is, within a basic framework provided by the legislative?

[a completely inoffensive name]

I can't unlike your post for some reason, I meant to respond to it.

Once you click the thanks button on the bottom left, there is a line which appears that says "Remove Your Thanks" on the right side of the post that you can click.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Once you click the thanks button on the bottom left, there is a line which appears that says "Remove Your Thanks" on the right side of the post that you can click.

In Tapatalk,, it isn't working for some reason. It usually does.

[ICantSpellDawg]

So you want the police to be able to act as a court and jury, as well as decide for themselves which situations that is, within a basic framework provided by the legislative?

In the US, a court case is a guilty verdict. Someone who has done nothing wrong is ruined financially and destroyed on a technicality of needing to bring everything to court.

If there is suspicion of illegal action, court case should ensue. If not, it is merely a cruel and unnecessary punishment against someone defending their life. I believe in stand your ground laws and protocols that resemble them - for all citizens, including police.

For example, the Trayvon case was not treated as a stand your ground case because it involved an individual acting as the aggressor in a way that threatened Martin and was not prescribed by law. I agree that that case should have been taken to court, even though the shooter was acquired (also the right result).

Some level of impunity should be given to those defending their lives in such a situation that would warrant it.

[HoreTore]

[Ironside]

Firstly it sounds to me like the "young man" probably should have been shot. Based on the character hit-piece, this was a massive scumbag who liked to rob convenience stores openly, get aggressive and then intimidate little old Indian men who had just been robbed. It isn't a far stretch to assume that he would have become absurdly aggressive with police when confronted with a mild infraction and possibly gone for their holster. Its a terrible situation that people put themselves into a persona that needs to be "put down" like a dog to protect other people from being hurt or killed over things a as absurd as a handful of slimjims.

Are you summoning the spirit of the cop in question? Besides, there's more than one indication that he needed very long arms for that. It's quite probable that the police behavior on both matters are linked.

[Tellos Athenaios]

In Tapatalk,, it isn't working for some reason. It usually does.

That's because you're so very wrong even an inanimate piece of software knows it.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Are you summoning the spirit of the cop in question? Besides, there's more than one indication that he needed very long arms for that. It's quite probable that the police behavior on both points are linked.

A hearing isn't out of the question, although courts are like a black hole which sucks everything in.

[ICantSpellDawg]

People have a right to stop those who present a serious danger to their lives with lethal force. I don't want to see anyone punished for that.

You don't have the right to take people to criminal court when they have done nothing illegal just to placate the family of the deceased. Let that family attempt a civil suit.

[HoreTore]

People have a right to stop those who present a serious danger to their lives with lethal force. I don't want to see anyone punished for that.

You don't have the right to take people to court when they have done nothing illegal just to placate the family of the deceased.

The problem is that you give the police the ability to both carry out the action AND determine whether or not the action was appropriate.

That screws with everything we know about separation of powers.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The problem is that you give the police the ability to both carry out the action AND determine whether or not the action was appropriate.

That screws with everything we know about separation of powers.

The DA makes the determination to prosecute or not, right. Also, the Governor's office could decide to investigate.

I'm not saying don't investigate, I'm just saying that you can't bring it to criminal court unless the DA is charging the officer with a crime.

[Ironside]

People have a right to stop those who present a serious danger to their lives with lethal force. I don't want to see anyone punished for that.

People also has the right to have their own death properly investigated. And by properly investigated, it shouldn't be done by people that lies and makes up charges. Unlike the Ferguson police. I mean, discounting their stated lie, it's quite obvious that they also did the assult. And the spite charge with a felony isn't exactly positive relation building.

And that the protesters there mistrusts the police is quite obvious (of course the new guy in charge seems to actually read about relation building).

[ICantSpellDawg]

People also has the right to have their own death properly investigated. And by properly investigated, it shouldn't be done by people that lies and makes up charges. Unlike the Ferguson police. I mean, discounting their stated lie, it's quite obvious that they also did the assult. And the spite charge with a felony isn't exactly positive relation building.

And that the protesters there mistrusts the police is quite obvious (of course the new guy in charge seems to actually read about relation building).

Completely understood and accepted. Let there be an investigation, and most likely let that be the end of it. The officer is presumed innocent and with an anecdotal understanding of the kind of massive degenerate he was dealing with, I hope that the community can fix their horrible child/parent problem. This will make it much easier to fix their horrible police problem.

I blame American slave history first
American black culture second
American criminal justice third.

You euroweenies have probably seen a handful of black people in your lives. Some of them are wonderful people, but not all of them are Will Smith, Oprah, and Barack Obama. It is mind blowing to see what their lives are like and how many American Blacks react to the world around them. It is something that is alien to most peoples understanding of the normal human response to stimuli.

Living near the largest black population in North America opens your eyes to the nuances of the problems that exist. In some ways NYC is a great example, in some ways it is horrifying.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Cops are government workers no different than those who work at the DMV or any other bureaucratic dredge of an agency and should be thought of as such. They are certainly not deserving of reverence.

Reverence...no. Respect....yes. Most law enforcement officers I've had contact with are decent, level-headed individuals. To say that they are no different than someone who pushes papers for a living is rubbish. Every time an officer pulls over a motorist, or answers a domestic violence call, or any other daily activity that they are required to do, they put their lives at risk. Can any of you trashing cops say the same? Because if you can't, you need to shut the hell up and take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Are there "bad" cops? Certainly, but when you are dealing with the dregs of society on a daily basis, it's difficult to keep a sane, level head. That so many more law enforcement officers do than don't, is enough to warrant respect, if nothing else.

The primary driver in law enforcement employment is economic. It offers well above average pay/benefits/pensions for a below average education level and skill set.

How many law enforcement officers have you known in your life? I'd be very surprised if it was even one. I would also like to see some sort of numbers to back up the part in bold.

In my community (east side Detroit), there is an officer present at every community meeting to hear complaints from local residents and to help plan out courses of action. Every single one of these officers is a family man or woman with neighborhood concerns of their own. And every morning they put on that uniform and go to work, it might be the last time they kiss their spouse and children goodbye.

Again...reverence? No. Respect...you're damn right

[HoreTore]

The DA makes the determination to prosecute or not, right. Also, the Governor's office could decide to investigate.

I'm not saying don't investigate, I'm just saying that you can't bring it to criminal court unless the DA is charging the officer with a crime.

Uhm, what? That would be pretty damn obvious, wouldn't it? Of course I meant following a normal investigation. I thought that would've been obvious, since my argument rested on following standard procedure?

I got the impression that you did not want the normal procedure to happen, and that the decision should rest with the officer in question.

If that's not the case, then I suppose all of this was a misunderstanding. I'm happy with that.


Also, I must admit that all of my posting was mostly an baiting to use the "Hitler approves"-picture.....

[rvg]

Also, I must admit that all of my posting was mostly an baiting to use the "Hitler approves"-picture.....

You could have just started a thread on vegetarianism for that.