America sinks into chaos and brutality as police shoot at reporters

[ICantSpellDawg]

No, that's what they have the NSA and associates for...

And the movement ignores the fact that it can only exist because of the technological advancements we made as societies of people working together, not lonely and not only by making trillions of small individual contracts but also huge societal contracts that many people agree to as well.

Humans are basically apes and as such herd animals. If it weren't for the security that our herds have provided us and established over centuries these people would perish lonely in the wilds (possibly even to criminal herds of humans praying on loners for food), that's the reality they refuse to acknowledge by trying to ignore the herd contracts that they think only restrict them.

We only have all of the amazing things that we have today through the countless hundred years of slavery and compelled labor at home and abroad, too. Doesn't make those things right or deserving of continuation. We will use technology to progress away from an abusive political system.

Also, I don't think of apes as "herd animals". We can find better ways to allow people to govern themselves. Illegitimate nanny statism isn't one of the ways. I'm interested in finding a way to a solution, balancing the natural desire to be a free person with the natural desire to form a minimal government. This balance is out of whack and getting worse - in need of a big correction. The spread of the internet will accelerate these ideas until the number of subversives outnumbers loyalists. Good luck holding everything up with us tickling your armpits.

[Husar]

We only have all of the amazing things that we have today through the countless hundred years of slavery and compelled labor at home and abroad, too. Doesn't make those things right or deserving of continuation. We will use technology to progress away from an abusive political system.

Also, I don't think of apes as "herd animals". We can find better ways to allow people to govern themselves. Illegitimate nanny statism isn't one of the ways. I'm interested in finding a way to a solution, balancing the natural desire to be a free person with the natural desire to form a minimal government. This balance is out of whack and getting worse - in need of a big correction. The spread of the internet will accelerate these ideas until the number of subversives outnumbers loyalists. Good luck holding everything up with us tickling your armpits.

Sovereign citizen sounds more like no government rather than little government. Government reform is certainly necessary in the US though, that constitution is 300 years old!

[ICantSpellDawg]

No - they have a legal starting point and ending point for Federal government. They recognize the Constitution and many other laws. They get a little zany though, that's why I just consider myself a Constitutional Minarchist rather than a Sovereign Citizen.

I don't respect the Constitution because of its age; I respect it because it is unlike any other document in that it is overwhelmingly a law against government rather than one that is used against people. Things in the Constitution that are abusive to the rights of men and women should be repealed and "the way things have always been" isn't an argument that I would ever make.

[Greyblades]

I just consider myself a Constitutional Monarchist

...the hell?

[Beskar]

...the hell?

He wants the USA to join the Commonwealth.

[ICantSpellDawg]

...the hell?

Minarchist. Spell check keeps changing it.

[lars573]

I don't know about the word "cowardly" to describe a group of associated loners intentionally provoking Federal and State governments with violence and interstate fraud. The rest of your post is a reasonable concern.

I believe that there is a need for more sovereignty for individuals. Historically, people believed in a collective purpose and largely modified their behaviours to conform to the social dicat. Today, nearly everyone, even religious conservatives understand that the emperor has no clothes. Their is no "mandate of heaven" and your political leaders are just as clueless as you are, and probably more unscrupulous and power hungry than average. Nobody has business governing anyone else.

I am a Constitutional Minarchist, I want a government of the lowest common denominator which recognizes the maximum sovereignty of every individual. I believe in laws, not that regulate people, but that regulate those who would attempt to rule over people. Every man and woman should be free to live the life that they believe they are meant for, not the life that an increasingly disturbed and profligate government, church, or corporation believes they are meant for.

Small groups of people hundreds or thousands of miles away from a town should never male laws that affect individuals within that town. They can, however, focus on foreign policy and the minimum that national government is authorized to do. The rest should be left up to individuals wherever possible.

Sovereign citizens (a better description would be libertarian-anarchists) are like libertarians, anarchists, and communists. They subscribe to an insane notion that the problems they see with society are the result of evil people bending society to their benefit. And that if you throw out the baby and the bathwater and remove all the potential evil people it will make a better place to live. When really those problems are the result of society being made up of humans. And humans don't all think alike at all times. Utter utter non-sense.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Sovereign citizens (a better description would be libertarian-anarchists) are like libertarians, anarchists, and communists. They subscribe to an insane notion that the problems they see with society are the result of evil people bending society to their benefit. And that if you throw out the baby and the bathwater and remove all the potential evil people it will make a better place to live. When really those problems are the result of society being made up of humans. And humans don't all think alike at all times. Utter utter non-sense.

You just said that they were anarchist libertarian communists. Is it possible that you don't understand those terms?
I will agree that many of their ideas are zany, but of that was government today you would be defending it.

[Montmorency]

But that's the point: they couldn't be the government of today.

[ICantSpellDawg]

But that's the point: they couldn't be the government of today.

Why not? With dwindling population growth expected and technological automation - Silicon Valley seems to like the idea at least. They aren't becoming more statist in the aggregate, are they?

If modern governments existed in the time of the Pharoahs - the pyramids would have never been built. It would be a shame, but I'm sure it would be a good thing and that the construction would be even more impressive.
Without slavery, would the U.S. textile industry have taken off to the extent that it did? That's no defense of slavery.

We learn from the mistakes of the past and build new futures. Most people on earth dont have the skills held by our ancestors; we would probably die pretty quickly if we were transported back in time. Clearly though, we are better off.

[Ironside]

You just said that they were anarchist libertarian communists. Is it possible that you don't understand those terms?
I will agree that many of their ideas are zany, but of that was government today you would be defending it.

All of them has the stated goal to form either an extremely weak or a non-existant state. Basically, any successful (communism in particular got spectacular failures) implementation, and it wouldn't be a goverment left to defend.

Why not? With dwindling population growth expected and technological automation - Silicon Valley seems to like the idea at least. They aren't becoming more statist in the aggregate, are they?

Good luck having no state intervation when most of the human workers are obsolete. Current form of free market will be figurativly or literally killed off. And the most resonable alternatives starts with forms of citizen salaries and regulated shorter work days.

[ICantSpellDawg]

K

All of them has the stated goal to form either an extremely weak or a non-existant state. Basically, any successful (communism in particular got spectacular failures) implementation, and it wouldn't be a goverment left to defend.



Good luck having no state intervation when most of the human workers are obsolete. Current form of free market will be figurativly or literally killed off. And the most resonable alternatives starts with forms of citizen salaries and regulated shorter work days.

The government should offer a free slave robot to any individual who accepts permanent sterilization.

Problem solved.

You are implying that we need government to support us when we all become obsolete to the economy and wealthy people are able to get what they need without an economy that exists to keep their serfs alive and building things for them. Thats why we buy guns; particularly heavy, anti-material calibers . I'm almost positive that when human beings are no longer of any use to powerful people that no amount of government will save them. When people are useless and government has killing machines that don't ask questions, we are all screwed. There is no Wall-E, no lazy eternity having robots do everything that is needed. Just mass execution. Humans, who exist as working chattle, will follow the same demographic trend as horses when people no longer found a use for them.

Or everything will be just fine and we'll all just sit in government subsidized circles jerking off and singing kumbaya.

Either way, it's going to be a blast.

[The Lurker Below]

as horses when people no longer found a use for them.

So the best looking examples of us will be allowed to roam around in front of the house as living lawn ornaments?

[Papewaio]

So the best looking examples of us will be allowed to roam around in front of the house as living lawn ornaments?

Only if you are hung like one...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Only if you are hung like one...

Like a lawn ornament? THAT much I got. Well, Travelocity Gnome sized ornament anyway.....

[Fisherking]

K

The government should offer a free slave robot to any individual who accepts permanent sterilization.

Problem solved.

You are implying that we need government to support us when we all become obsolete to the economy and wealthy people are able to get what they need without an economy that exists to keep their serfs alive and building things for them. Thats why we buy guns; particularly heavy, anti-material calibers . I'm almost positive that when human beings are no longer of any use to powerful people that no amount of government will save them. When people are useless and government has killing machines that don't ask questions, we are all screwed. There is no Wall-E, no lazy eternity having robots do everything that is needed. Just mass execution. Humans, who exist as working chattle, will follow the same demographic trend as horses when people no longer found a use for them.

Or everything will be just fine and we'll all just sit in government subsidized circles jerking off and singing kumbaya.

Either way, it's going to be a blast.

Tax money at work. Genetic Units & their Carbon legacies. We are carbon emissions that must be controlled. It is just environmental cleanup.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/p...arbonStudy.pdf