The positive progressions of technology has so far simply been a fact, and it has created the fact of a break from human history following the 19th century in terms of social organization.
The world bears very little similarity to how it was 200 years ago. In 1800, the world was much more similar to the way it was in ancient times than to the way it is now.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Actually, to riff off the Jon Stewart video in the Climate thread:
Those who deny accelerating technological change with concomitant impact on our way of life be like, 'But I can still breathe, so technological growth must be slowing down!!!'.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Technology does not progress towards something. If there were no tin on earth, there would be no bronze. If there was no uranium, any nuclear power technologies would be radically different.
There are only three themes within history, conflict, exchange and extraction/production. The methods are different, but these themes are universal across all time periods. I hold that any view which separates us from those before us simply because we have shinier tools is a blind kind of exceptionalism.
You're reading too much into it. Stagnation do occur and so does regression. But technological improvements (progression) forces social changes to move forward, even when the society is kicking and screaming. A regressive social movement moves one step forward and two steps back, which is different from one step back, unless they also reverse the technological improvements as well.
History contains both a cyclical pattern and a path of (almost) irreversable changes. Trying to fit in what someone wise said a long time ago while ignoring the changes is hardly an effective method.
Also, globally and generally, history has been a long thread of positive progression.
...To paraphase. Improved communication, transportation, food production, etc has had no impact? Despite changing how conflict, exchange and extraction/production looks like? The ideas behind Communism and Fascism are old, very old. Yet as political systems, they're young. Why is that, according to you?
Technological progression means that the tools used today does a better job than those in the past. That's the reason the old tools are replaced. It doesn't mean moving up through the teach tree of civilization.
Last edited by Ironside; 10-25-2014 at 12:54.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Nonsense. There is no progress towards, but there is progress from. Progress is simply movement, simply change. To deny this is the true exceptionalism.Technology does not progress towards something. If there were no tin on earth, there would be no bronze. If there was no uranium, any nuclear power technologies would be radically different.
There are only three themes within history, conflict, exchange and extraction/production. The methods are different, but these themes are universal across all time periods. I hold that any view which separates us from those before us simply because we have shinier tools is a blind kind of exceptionalism.
It's similar to the arguments presented to explain both "behavioral modernity" and the "Neolithic Revolution".
I'm sure this image is familiar to you:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Action potentials operate according to the All-or-Nothing Principle. Below a certain threshold, there is simply stable variation in potassium-ion exchange. Once the threshold is met, however, there is a massive leap in activity producing ever-more leaps in activity. The same is argued here to hold for the activity of living creatures in an ecosystem, including humans - the only real difference being that it should be much harder for an ecological "leap" to contribute inhibitory effects within the system, and no inherent developmental constraints on the sum of "leaps". Without these constraints, we can expect unbounded growth past the point of familiarity. This is assured. You will see it in your lifetime.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Yes, but what is "forward"? We can move "forward" to a number of scenarios with technology. We can move "forward" into a clean society, with tolerance and transparency using the technology that has only emerged in the last twenty years. We can also move "forward" in to 1984, or Brave New World, or Deus Ex.
The hindsight of saying "things are better now then they have ever been" isn't an argument that things will always be getting better. I don't think that the first half of the twentieth century was "two steps forward, one step back" I think it was one big step back. Genocides on scales never seen before, racism, eugenics and anti-semitism present and openly advocated for across all the "liberal democracies". The fact that we did not engage in a nuclear holocaust during the Cold War, does not mean that the history of humanity will not end tragically and painfully.
Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 10-25-2014 at 13:05.
Edit: I'll assume this wasn't directed at me.Yes, but what is "forward"? We can move "forward" to a number of scenarios with technology. We can move "forward" into a clean society, with tolerance and transparency using the technology that has only emerged in the last twenty years. We can also move "forward" in to 1984, or Brave New World, or Deus Ex.
The hindsight of saying "things are better now then they have ever been" isn't an argument that things will always be getting better. I don't think that the first half of the twentieth century was "two steps forward, one step back" I think it was one big step back. Genocides on scales never seen before, racism, eugenics and anti-semitism present and openly advocated for across all the "liberal democracies". The fact that we did not engage in a nuclear holocaust during the Cold War, does not mean that the history of humanity will not end tragically and painfully.
Last edited by Montmorency; 10-25-2014 at 13:06.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Humans are not potassium ions. Of course I am not denying the fact that change occurs. Why bother implying that strawman? It's a bit late (or early depending how you look at it) for me, so I gotta re-read your last paragraph later. But I do not see human progress as being modeled like an "All-or-Nothing" method, because it seems analogous to the whole idea that changes happen in waves of revolution. Most things build on things which came long before it and major events are simply notable for being an arbitrary marking point used for story telling.
EDIT: This one is for you monty. <3
But that's exactly what I'm saying.Most things build on things which came long before it and major events are simply notable for being an arbitrary marking point used for story telling.
Obviously the physical processes underlying "revolutions" will not be exceptional - but from our human perspective they will be. These "major events" will simply signal a profound shift in our way of life, and whether at the core the same processes are evident is just a rather-crude halfway-reductionism that totally misses the point, which is this:
The "human/behavioral" and "Neolithic" revolutions of the prehistoric era and the Industrial Revolution of the modern age are about to be overshadowed and obliterated by a "Post-human" revolution in which we become evolution itself. There will no longer be 'human stories'.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
OK... I have no idea what you people are talking about
Things getting better are driven by two things. One, new technology replaces the old one if there's a benefit. Two, people prefer it to have it better, which means that oppression, genocide etc, needs to be imposed. Such imposing can't last for ever.
Nuclear war, massive irrerepairable ecological destruction, genetic manipulation Brave New World style, other things that wipe out humanity or irrevesibly destroys the human abillity or drive to invent are negative end states. And yes I do consider them possible.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Again international board, so it is your founding fathers whose beliefs were heavily based on the European Enlightenment.
When the US can rule out capital punishment it will be in a better state to not hypocritically rally against abortion.
I also believe that abortion should not be decided by men, peer, wise, founding or otherwise. When a committee of men decide what women can do with their bodies then committees of women can decide what happens to men. I, for one, am not going to let a group of women rule that I should get a vasectomy, so I'm not going to decide on a woman getting an abortion.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
An expert balancing budgets based on modern science vs a committee of self anointed elders using their version of heavily edited and redacted scifi compendium based on events that may have occurred that none of the editors let alone authors witnessed.
I'll go with the qualified burecrat thanks.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Nothing. I am not letting a committee decide if and when I get a vasectomy, so not wishing to be a hypocrite I'm not going to advocate deciding if woman can or cannot get an abortion. That the group think decision is based on a system that has no solid evidence other then collective wishful thinking for a security blanket just reinforces why not to go down that path.
Now this is a story...
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-10-26/m...aughters-life/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...child-die.html
Mother wins right to end disabled daughter's life:
A mother has made legal history after she won a High Court case to end the life of her severely disabled 12-year-old daughter.
Last edited by Beskar; 10-28-2014 at 17:07.
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