Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
That's a cop out and you know it.
Columbus was so abhorrent that the Crown not only striped him of his Governorship but actually later jailed him and confiscated his wealth - while he did somehow sweet talk his way out of jail and into getting his wealth back he never was in a position of power again.
This isn't a "product of his times" - his peers found his crimes just as abhorrent as we do now - there are several Scholars of his time who actually published as much... he was a monster and can only be considered that.
That Oatmeal cartoon is cherry picked hack job
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
The "Great Prophet Muhammed" was a man of his time when he had sex with 6 year olds...
Hitler was a man of his time when he believed we should cut into the genetical tree of life...
My dad was a man of his time, when he hated gays no matter what...
History and where that line of study should go is never, ever, ever, ever about what we should forget, but about what we shouldn't forgive or forget.
Last edited by Kadagar_AV; 10-18-2014 at 01:22.
Because what Columbus did had a profound effect on the world and forever changed it, for good or bad. It's kinda like Times' Person of the Year - one's chosen based on influence and effect, not based on one's good nature.
Should we really be making movies about people who committed genocide, like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan?
Mohammed was indeed a man of his times. It wasn't uncommon even later for man to marry and have sex with underage girls.
Hitler wasn't a man of his times, kinda why most of the rest of the world fought him.
I highly doubt your dad was a man of his times as people from that generation didn't all hate gays.
We're talking about 15-16th century. Am I wrong or is that about the time people burned people at the stake for witchcraft and promotion of science alike and committed genocides because of minor and major religious and/or ethnic differences, among other crimes?
Last edited by Sarmatian; 10-18-2014 at 11:52.
The best argument for keeping Columbus Day is that "America Day" is a bit too much and there are already two holidays for the military.
But really, it's kind of a worthless holiday no matter what side you're on. For the Latin countries it might have some special significance, but for the US, it's symbolically meaningless. As it is, it serves neither integrative nor disintegrative purpose by its specification, and in practice it only produces intergroup disintegration.
Is the beginning of the Age of Colonization really worthy of being one of the US's federal holidays, administrative or otherwise? Why not "Contact Day" then? Or, why not "Jamestown Day" or "Louisiana Purchase Day"?
It could be replaced by pretty much anything. Just go ask the dozens or hundreds of lobbyists crying for some new federal holiday.
Federal holiday - not the same as a commercial product.Should we really be making movies about people who committed genocide, like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan?
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'd agree that the background is different, but as far as raising awareness go, it was much more effective.
It's not really the movie the itself, it's the mythology it was based upon, a particular mythology most of us westerners have a difficult time letting go of - a culturally, morally, scientifically superior smaller band of westerners, led by a genius confronting and winning against countless eastern hordes.
We have a habit of remembering the nice things and forgetting the ugly. Not in any way unique to Columbus.
300 had a much more nuanced take on the east vs west theme than Alexander.
In Kingdom of Heaven the templars are the evil ones, while the muslims are the noble savages.
In Walker Texas Ranger, as well as some Steven Seagal movies, the Indians are the noble savages.
It's not like the entire movie industry is pro-west (although technically the Indians were the westerners and the Europeans the easterners), some of them are also pinko-commie fifth columnists.
There were also more than just Schindler: Bonhoeffer, Canaris, Stauffenberg and several I have forgotten about...
Learned about many of those from movies as well.
Last edited by Husar; 10-18-2014 at 12:59.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
"A national holiday implies one's good nature." Err, like storming a Fortress used as jail (kind of Guantanamo Bay one)?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
As is said earlier in the thread, the reason why the day exists is because a group of Catholics wanted a Catholic hero/rolemodel for catholic children. It is about Colombus himself.
Yes, storming the Bastille was a good thing.
you don't have a "building the Bastille"-day in France.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"
"The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"
Columbus day had been celebrated in the USA for many years. The highest popularity of the celebration coincided with the USA's most "jingoist" era, from our centennial up until World War II. During this era -- when Kipling wrote of taking up the "white man's burden" without seeing anything hypocritical in it -- it is safe to assume that "revisionism" was not being applied to the rather superficial knowledge most yanks had about Columbus. Catholics used him as a standard bearer -- including my Knights of Columbus -- because he was both Catholic and moderately popular as historical figures went.
Working together, the Knights and a powerful New York Tamany Hall leader (of Italian origin) convinced the Democratic President from New York to approve the Federal Holiday. In the NE, Columbus day was the Italian-American counterpart to St. Pat's for many people -- a celebrate your heritage day.
Most Americans today celebrate the Holiday by watching ALL of Sunday Night Football without worrying about getting up the next day. A huge slice of them couldn't tell you why this Monday was a holiday and if you told them it was President's Day or Veteran's Day instead of Columbus Day they would probably agree with you and certainly wouldn't care one way or another -- except that they have the day off.
Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 10-19-2014 at 20:42.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
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