Ukraine Thread

[Fragony]

"Perhaps Mr. Putin sees oil staying in the $30-$40 range for the foreseeable future and understands what havoc this will bring for the economy and the government’s coffers. Perhaps Moscow is seeing the seeds of a new round of social unrest forming in the opposition. Perhaps Mr. Putin and his aides fear that punishing Western sanctions will remain in place for the foreseeable future and that the campaign to weaken European and American resolve has failed. Perhaps the czar is planning new international intrigues." Lots of perhaps.

Lots of insinuation, I know it's just an opinion-article but the wording is off, I expected better from something as respectable as the Wasshington-Post. Why is the comparison to a madmen who lived centuries ago in any way comparable to Russia today?
This is framing of the worst kind, and it isn't very classy. I don't like Poetin but I do like honesty.

Czar, seriously wtf. It's ok if I call that total freak Erdogan a sultan but I don't write it in a very influentual newspaper

[Gilrandir]

Lots of insinuation,

It is true. But it is also true that Russia has a most developed system of law enforcement bodies, and here comes a new one which is directly under Putin's command. It raises questions like "What is the need for a new one? Is it an admission that the old ones are inadequate? Or are the responsibilities of the newly created National Guard would be different from those proclaimed?" The author of the article offers his answers to such questions.

[Fragony]

It is true. But it is also true that Russia has a most developed system of law enforcement bodies, and here comes a new one which is directly under Putin's command. It raises questions like "What is the need for a new one? Is it an admission that the old ones are inadequate? Or are the responsibilities of the newly created National Guard would be different from those proclaimed?" The author of the article offers his answers to such questions.

I understand your considerations, but we have a national police who answers to the minister of justice here as well. That it COULD go wrong doesn't mean it will. The writer of the article is really of by comparing it with a really outdated concept of a czar being in Russia. By law an officer has to wear a sabre in Brittain by law for example. Also here there are many laws that are just ignored. The lines just disconnect in that article

[Gilrandir]

I understand your considerations, but we have a national police who answers to the minister of justice here as well.

But not directly to the head of the state. And Russia has a special assignment force - OMON, so there is no apparent need to create a new body and make it answerable to the president directly.

[Fragony]

But not directly to the head of the state. And Russia has a special assignment force - OMON, so there is no apparent need to create a new body and make it answerable to the president directly.

I understand the slippery slope but there are too many right here to be really worried about Russia. If we are honest we would admit that we (the west) are the agressors here. Russia is slowly but steadily being surrounded, why would we do that to them? We are begging for agression and it does not have to be like that

Never never never hurt anything that doesn't hurt you

[Fragony]

What I said earlier might just might not be true, it can be binding it seems with some lawfull wizardry. I am not very sure what I voted against at the moment. My sincere apoligies to Ukrainens for taking it as a prank if it actually has consequenses, and that I was part of using you as a ball in a football-game

[Gilrandir]

I am not very sure what I voted against at the moment.

This is the major problem.

My sincere apoligies to Ukrainens for taking it as a prank if it actually has consequenses, and that I was part of using you as a ball in a football-game

Never mind. You can bask in congratulations from very worthy persons:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...may-be-invalid

Geert Wilders, the leader of the Dutch anti-EU, anti-Islam Freedom Party, hailed the result as “fantastic,” and Le Pen congratulated him on Twitter, saying it was another “step away” from the EU. Medvedev said the rejection was an “indication of Europeans’ attitude to the Ukrainian political system," in a post on Twitter.

[Fragony]

Geert Wilders had nothing to to with all this, it's the rather influential weblog Geenstijl.nl who is behind it, they are friends nor enemies, they don't work for anyone they are completily independent.

To be honest, I voted no to give the EU the finger, but I never wanted to screw the Ukraine

[Lizardo]

The vote did jack shit, it doesnt change a thing the deal with ukraine is still going through one way or another

[Fragony]

The vote did jack shit, it doesnt change a thing the deal with ukraine is still going through one way or another

Of course it will, the EU does as it pleases. I got out of it what I wanted, but it doesn't feell quite right that we used the Ukraine for it, even if there are very good reasons to vote against the treaty. I now think it would have been better not to have done this and let the eurosceptic parties naturally grow. We have the time, the EU will fall eventually we just need patience.

[Gilrandir]

It is true. But it is also true that Russia has a most developed system of law enforcement bodies, and here comes a new one which is directly under Putin's command. It raises questions like "What is the need for a new one? Is it an admission that the old ones are inadequate? Or are the responsibilities of the newly created National Guard would be different from those proclaimed?" The author of the article offers his answers to such questions.

Another article on the problem:
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...1#.Vw5a5_mLRMx

[Gilrandir]

How Russia exercises control over DPR and LNR:
http://www.unian.info/politics/13041...exclusive.html

[Lizardo]

This video explains the formation of ruaaiaa national guard https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3oXsVJnzik

[Gilrandir]

What was/is going on in Ukraine is civil war, is it?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ory-says-study

[Sarmatian]

Now a group of British investigative journalists using digital detection techniques, satellite imagery and social media has provided near conclusive proof that the shelling came from across the border in Russia.

In other news, digital detection techniques, satellite imagery and social media has provided near conclusive proof that cats are, indeed, the most elegant life form on Earth.

[Gilrandir]

In other news, digital detection techniques, satellite imagery and social media has provided near conclusive proof that cats are, indeed, the most elegant life form on Earth.

In Ukraine it is a matter of common knowlegde referred to by numerous witnesses, including videos shot by Russians in Gukovo. Now the West (albeit in a very hesitant manner) is owing up to it as well.

If you choose to still believe what Putin says, well, carry on.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What was/is going on in Ukraine is civil war, is it?

Civil wars aren't.

[Greyblades]

Civil wars aren't.

Strange, a few years ago I found such statements endearing and witty, now I find my eyes reflexively rolling.

[Strike For The South]

drink more

[Gilrandir]

Mejlis is banned in Crimea:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/wo...ssia.html?_r=0

And France makes a move to lift anti-Russian sanctions:
https://www.rt.com/news/341216-franc...ctions-russia/

[Gilrandir]

Brothers in sanctions:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/873530

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Brothers in sanctions:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/873530

Well, you are judged by the company you keep - and Russia is really scraping the barrel if its cozying up to the African basket case that used to be a bread basket.

[Gilrandir]

"The USSR official outfit and traditions are very often strikingly similar to those of nazi Germany"

A follow up on the topic - posters of two countries in question:

[Crandar]

Flashing news!

Uniforms and propaganda posters from the same time look similar! Soviet and German cars, too! Even, the toothpastes! Just look at these suspicious little devilish cylinders!

Not to mention that both their leaders had a mustache. Coincidence? I think not.

[Brenus]

"A follow up on the topic"



one of my favourite:


I have others but I won't bother to put in parallel...

[Gilrandir]

I have others but I won't bother to put in parallel...

It is the parallel that matters. The messages of the posters are indeed universal, but I was pointing to the DESIGN similarities (including Stalin giving a nazi salute) which testifies to the readiness of the two regimes to draw upon each other's experience and techniques.

[Husar]

It is the parallel that matters. The messages of the posters are indeed universal, but I was pointing to the DESIGN similarities (including Stalin giving a nazi salute) which testifies to the readiness of the two regimes to draw upon each other's experience and techniques.

You're making a good case for immigration, because it clearly shows that, in the end, we humans are all the same.

[Brenus]

"It is the parallel that matters. " You means that all propaganda or representation will show the same things!!!!
"(including Stalin giving a nazi salute)" more, more, this is making my day...

USSR Flag on Nazi Berlin

[Gilrandir]

USSR Flag on Nazi Berlin

I don't know what do you want to prove by publishing a photo which hung in my school, and the size of it was a man's height. Wake up and consult a calendar, it is not 1945 any more and the great-grandchildren of those who erected the flag march through Moscow and other Russian cities:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-515380.html
http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2013/...rch-in-moscow/

[Brenus]

" Wake up and consult a calendar, it is not 1945 " You started with your stupid collage for before 1945, trying to equal Communism and Nazism. I was trying to help you in showing a USSR banner in Berlin, but I can see the irony didn't escape you... I am actually sarcastic... I prefer to say it as some tend to read things I didn't wrote, one can't be safe enough...

And I am impressed, really. 10.000 gathered on a population of what? 146 millions? that is an impressive movement. Well they still have to make an effort to match the Ukrainian Nazi, first they have to get power...
https://ukraineantifascistsolidarity...r-right-links/