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Thread: Ukraine Thread

  1. #61
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    One of the things that happened in Afghanistan was that various tribes would tell the Americans that people from another tribe were "terrorists". In one instance two American patrols with local guides called down air strikes on each other.

    As I said months ago, I'm sure there was a legitimate sense of grievance in these areas, but a few hardliners, probably with Russian support from the start, turned this into a war and dragged everyone else in.
    Did I mention Putin is a great strategist?

    Regardless, a source would be nice... :)

  2. #62
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  3. #63
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.

  4. #64
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.
    And what the hell do you think law school is about?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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  5. #65
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    And what the hell do you think law school is about?
    Keeping people who argue like SFTS out?

  6. #66
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  7. #67
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.

  8. #68
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.
    You assume the point is a well crafted statement
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    "It's November 21st". You've got the date right...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
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  10. #70
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?

  11. #71
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
    2. he's obviously a terrorist!
    3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
    4. Don't think, just hate Purten!


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  12. #72
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
    2. he's obviously a terrorist!
    3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
    4. Don't think, just hate Purten!
    Possibly, but overthinking Strike's statement is usually a wrong move. If it weren't for the exact same misspelling, I would have just assumed he is that disinterested or that he posted drunk.

  13. #73
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.
    You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  14. #74
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....
    Self defense reasons...

    I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

    As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).

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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back



  16. #76
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Self defense reasons...

    I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

    As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).
    One thing you still lack and that is a light saber. Too proud and trustful in weapons you are. Use the force that is within you.

    Meanwhile back to the topic.
    Girkin gave an interview to the Russian newspaper Zavtra (what kind of newspapaer it is - http://www.rferl.org/content/russias.../25425155.html)

    in which he claimed responsibility for the current war in Ukraine and admitted that if it hadn't been for his interference, the conflict would have ended like it did in Kharkiv or Odesa. This is for those who still believe that we are having a civil conflict in Ukraine and Russia has nothing to do with it.
    http://zavtra.ru/content/view/kto-tyi-strelok/
    Couldn't find a translation of it, sorry.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-23-2014 at 07:39.
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  17. #77
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    ==> http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ne/511584.html

    Russian national Igor Strelkov, a former commander of pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, has claimed "personal responsibility" for unleashing the conflict across the border, in which 4,300 people have been killed since April.

    "I was the one who pulled the firing trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views.

    "If our unit hadn't crossed the border, in the end everything would have fizzled out, like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, also known as Girkin, was quoted as saying.
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  18. #78
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

    He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

    He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.

  19. #79
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  20. #80
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

    He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

    He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.
    So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"? I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
    As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.
    As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-24-2014 at 13:00.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  21. #81
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist
    I think Voldemort would sound better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  22. #82
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"?
    Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.

    I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
    As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.
    That's very likely not what happened, but I'm past arguing with you on that.

    As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).
    You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.

  23. #83
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.
    It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
    But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.
    I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis. Well, now you won't have any reason to - Svoboda has 7 seats in the newly elected parliament, Right Sector - 1 and they will not be represented in the government. You will have to invent other imaginary fears which may justify what is going on in Donbas.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-24-2014 at 14:14.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  24. #84
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
    But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.
    That's great. Why doesn't Kiev sacrifice a little pride, recognize election results and give eastern Ukraine a greater autonomy?

    I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis.
    I have not. I was pointing out that you can't place the blame for conflict on a side that's resisting what they perceive to be an outside threat coming into their area.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 11-24-2014 at 20:53.

  25. #85
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.
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  26. #86
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.
    Yeah, either way SFTS seems to be a Putin apologiser.


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  27. #87
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  28. #88
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Is there something about texans that makes bluntness charming?

    No.

  29. #89
    Annoyingly awesome Member Booger Flick Champion, Run Sam Run Champion, Speed Cards Champion rickinator9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

    Too much time on your hands?
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  30. #90
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putin´s Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    No.
    A unified Yugoslavia still loses by 30 to the 92 dream team
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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