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Thread: Ukraine Thread

  1. #61
    Member Member Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    One of the things that happened in Afghanistan was that various tribes would tell the Americans that people from another tribe were "terrorists". In one instance two American patrols with local guides called down air strikes on each other.

    As I said months ago, I'm sure there was a legitimate sense of grievance in these areas, but a few hardliners, probably with Russian support from the start, turned this into a war and dragged everyone else in.
    Did I mention Putin is a great strategist?

    Regardless, a source would be nice... :)
    Occasionally, we have to break our own rules and go against our principles in order to save those principles. Certain situations warrant that.

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  2. #62
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


  3. #63
    Member Member Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 20th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.
    Occasionally, we have to break our own rules and go against our principles in order to save those principles. Certain situations warrant that.

    - rvg

    LOVE being ski instructor.

  4. #64
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    You kind of come off as having learnt a cool phrase from someone you looked up to, and then you just go on applying it every chance you have.
    And what the hell do you think law school is about?
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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  5. #65
    Member Member Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    And what the hell do you think law school is about?
    Keeping people who argue like SFTS out?
    Occasionally, we have to break our own rules and go against our principles in order to save those principles. Certain situations warrant that.

    - rvg

    LOVE being ski instructor.

  6. #66
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


  7. #67
    Member Member Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 21st and Validamir Putin is still a fascist.
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.
    Occasionally, we have to break our own rules and go against our principles in order to save those principles. Certain situations warrant that.

    - rvg

    LOVE being ski instructor.

  8. #68
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.
    You assume the point is a well crafted statement
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


  9. #69
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    "It's November 21st". You've got the date right...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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  10. #70
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?

  11. #71
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I'm just interested - what's the point of spelling his name wrong every time?
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
    2. he's obviously a terrorist!
    3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
    4. Don't think, just hate Purten!


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  12. #72
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    1. It makes him cartoonish and mocks him
    2. he's obviously a terrorist!
    3. The entire sentence is about brainwashing anyway
    4. Don't think, just hate Purten!
    Possibly, but overthinking Strike's statement is usually a wrong move. If it weren't for the exact same misspelling, I would have just assumed he is that disinterested or that he posted drunk.

  13. #73
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Oh come on, I can program my pocket watch to give more intelligent replies.
    You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  14. #74
    Member Member Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    You, a high-tech Euroweenie Austro-Swede are still using a pocket watch? Now I know where to send all those old fobs I have lying around.....
    Self defense reasons...

    I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

    As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).
    Occasionally, we have to break our own rules and go against our principles in order to save those principles. Certain situations warrant that.

    - rvg

    LOVE being ski instructor.

  15. #75
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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  16. #76
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Self defense reasons...

    I armed up rather massively since my little cultural clash some months ago. Steel chain pocket watch in one hand, 4000lumen flashlight with stroboscopic mode in the other, that can double as a baton, and a 45kg wolf to guard my rear and flanks...

    As it's a pocket watch, it doesn't count as a concealed weapon (eventhough it sure is).
    One thing you still lack and that is a light saber. Too proud and trustful in weapons you are. Use the force that is within you.

    Meanwhile back to the topic.
    Girkin gave an interview to the Russian newspaper Zavtra (what kind of newspapaer it is - http://www.rferl.org/content/russias.../25425155.html)

    in which he claimed responsibility for the current war in Ukraine and admitted that if it hadn't been for his interference, the conflict would have ended like it did in Kharkiv or Odesa. This is for those who still believe that we are having a civil conflict in Ukraine and Russia has nothing to do with it.
    http://zavtra.ru/content/view/kto-tyi-strelok/
    Couldn't find a translation of it, sorry.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-23-2014 at 06:39.

  17. #77
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    ==> http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ne/511584.html

    Russian national Igor Strelkov, a former commander of pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, has claimed "personal responsibility" for unleashing the conflict across the border, in which 4,300 people have been killed since April.

    "I was the one who pulled the firing trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views.

    "If our unit hadn't crossed the border, in the end everything would have fizzled out, like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, also known as Girkin, was quoted as saying.
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  18. #78
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

    He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

    He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.

  19. #79
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


  20. #80
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    As usual, the part you chose to quote doesn't match the contents of the article.

    He talks about Ukrainian military being reluctant to get involved and that first units or "raiding parties" were ultranationalists like Right Sector. If he (his unit) hadn't been involved, they would have quelled resistance quickly like they did earlier. He takes full responsibility for resisting them, which triggered the war, otherwise, ultranationalists would have just rolled over eastern Ukraine.

    He also mentions that practically all of the local population was pro-Russian, that they were extremely disappointed with lack of proper support from Russia and that they were shocked when Russia rebuffed them after the referenda held.
    So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"? I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
    As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.
    As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-24-2014 at 12:00.

  21. #81
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 23rd and Validamir Putin is still a fascist
    I think Voldemort would sound better.

  22. #82
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    So triggering the war was a better solution than an imagined "ultranationalists' roll over eastern Ukraine"?
    Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.

    I wonder what were the earlier casualties after such a roll elsewhere? Even if we consider the ones in Odesa (which were caused by the pro-Russians attacking a football fans march not by Right Sector), are they comparable to what is going on in Donbas now?
    As usual, you believe any pro-Russian or (in this case) Russian, especially those who try to find a just cause for penetrating another country and starting a war there.
    That's very likely not what happened, but I'm past arguing with you on that.

    As usual, you are missing the whole point: even Russians admit that there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine if Russia hadn't interfered (which is what I have been saying for half a year while others were babbling about suppressed minorities with local grievances who wage a just war against Kiev nazis).
    You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.

  23. #83
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Don't look at me, I'm a pacifist and not invested in any way, shape or form in the outcome, but it is generally considered that a local population providing armed resistance to an armed outside force which wants to force something on them, it's not the local population that's at fault.
    It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
    But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    You're missing the point. There wouldn't have been WW2 if no one resisted Hitler.
    I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis. Well, now you won't have any reason to - Svoboda has 7 seats in the newly elected parliament, Right Sector - 1 and they will not be represented in the government. You will have to invent other imaginary fears which may justify what is going on in Donbas.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 11-24-2014 at 13:14.

  24. #84
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    It is a good excuse - to say that no one in the world should be hurt for any cause. But reality bites - sometimes one have to sacrifice a little to avoid greater harm.
    But in the disscussed case it was not the local population that started the armed resistance, but Girkin (aka Strelkov) and his GRU posse. This fact is important in seeing the real meddler and instigator of the conflict.
    That's great. Why doesn't Kiev sacrifice a little pride, recognize election results and give eastern Ukraine a greater autonomy?

    I was speaking not of resisting but of interfering into other country's affairs. But you again seem to liken Ukrainian regime to nazis.
    I have not. I was pointing out that you can't place the blame for conflict on a side that's resisting what they perceive to be an outside threat coming into their area.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 11-24-2014 at 19:53.

  25. #85
    The Red Titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I assume Valid-Amir, that sounds like a cartoon character and amir is a high arab title of sorts.
    I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.
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  26. #86
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    I concentrated on the first-part, assuming he means Vladimir Putin is Valid in his offensive-actions in the Ukraine with a historical reference to the Muslim Hordes, he thought it worked better than Valid-Tsar.
    Yeah, either way SFTS seems to be a Putin apologiser.


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  27. #87
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  28. #88
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Is there something about texans that makes bluntness charming?

    No.

  29. #89
    Annoyingly awesome Member Cell-Out Champion, Booger Flick Champion, Virus Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion, Run Sam Run Champion, Fun Santa Champion, Speed Cards Champion, Yankee Go Home Champion rickinator9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    It's November 24th and Validamir Putin is still a fascist

    Too much time on your hands?
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  30. #90
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ukraine conflict episode 2 Putinīs Empire strikes back

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    No.
    A unified Yugoslavia still loses by 30 to the 92 dream team
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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