Ukraine Thread

[Gilrandir]

One more clever and calculated step from Putin:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33818186

[Gilrandir]

On Azov and nazis:
http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/10/me...om-in-ukraine/

[Husar]

Interesting link.

“I’m not a Nazi, and I don’t believe in National Socialism,” Skillt says. “When I got to Ukraine 17 months ago, I was a real bastard. I had stereotypes against Jews, blacks, Arabs. But I’ve fought with them, and now they are like brothers. Before, some things were black and white. But now I know nothing is certain. Good and bad people come in all colors. The world is very gray.

The solution to racism: Make war, not love!

[Gilrandir]

An interview Purgin (one of DNR " top officials") gave in Donetsk. Never mind the language, the main events can be seen over his right shoulder.
http://fakty.ictv.ua/ru/index/read-n...&utm_content=1
It is August 12, Wednesday, evidently the middle of the day. It seems that Zakharchenko on May 9 gave his citizens a nice example to follow.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Interesting link.



The solution to racism: Make war, not love!

Well, it worked for the US and segregation, didn't it?

[Husar]

Well, it worked for the US and segregation, didn't it?

Yes, and now Putin is curing Swedish racists.

[Gilrandir]

Yes, and now Putin is curing Swedish racists.

The hands of the king are the hands of a healer.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The hands of the king are the hands of a healer.

Too Bad Putin is Emperor of All Russia, then.

[Gilrandir]

Russian court has OFFICIALLY admitted the existence of (at least one) troll factory in Russia:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ble-in-damages

And an intersting link - from 2008:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...eorgia.russia1

What makes it so interesting:

"An invasion of Ukraine by 'peacekeeping tanks' is just a question of time," wrote Aleksandr Sushko, director of Kiev's Institute of Euro-Atlantic Cooperation. "Weimar Russia is completing its transformation into something else. If Russia wins this war, a new order will take shape in Europe which will have no place for Ukraine as a sovereign state."

And another prediction made in 2008:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-war/?page=all

[Viking]

That last one was the one that got the most of its precise predictions right:

Moscow’s main aim is to wrest the Crimean Peninsula from Kiev’s control. A majority of the Crimea’s inhabitants are ethnic Russians. More importantly, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based in Sevastopol. Under a 1997 agreement between the two countries, the Russian navy is scheduled to leave by 2017. Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko refuses to extend the lease - rightly fearing Moscow plans to stay on indefinitely and eventually annex the entire Crimea. Russian officials have already said they will not abandon the base at Sevastopol and that Kiev’s maritime laws do not apply to them.

Moreover, Russia has been distributing thousands of Russian passports to supporters in the Crimea. The plan is to replicate what was done in South Ossetia and Abkhazia: Create a pretext to send in Russian “peacekeepers” to protect supposedly endangered Russian “citizens.”

But Ukraine is not Georgia; it is a large, militarily powerful country with long memories of Russian domination. Any attempt at partition by Moscow would be met by fierce resistance. It would spark a bloody Russo-Ukrainian war.

He just got it wrong that "peacekeepers" would take over Crimea - it was of course instead the rather unbelievable story of 'local self-defence forces'.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That last one was the one that got the most of its precise predictions right:



He just got it wrong that "peacekeepers" would take over Crimea - it was of course instead the rather unbelievable story of 'local self-defence forces'.

He also underestimated the character of the Ukrainian forces, that they would put up such a determined but non-violent resistance.

18 months later the stories of men pinned in their barracks by what were obviously Russian forces and ships with mattresses lashed to the side to prevent boarding by divers are all but forgotten. None the less, it is important that we remember that Ukraine tried doing things the "right" way and it availed them nothing. If they are now shelling their own cities to deny Russia infrastructure and transport links we must remember the leadership was driven to this by Moscow.

Meanwhile, Putin was in a mini-sub in Crimea playing at Action Man again.

[Gilrandir]

If they are now shelling their own cities to deny Russia infrastructure and transport links we must remember the leadership was driven to this by Moscow.

The purpose of shelling is not the infrastructure (otherwise why the greatest in the region Debaltseve railway hub was not blown up by the Ukrainians before their withdrawal).
As even OSCE admits (http://en.censor.net.ua/news/346283/...d_coordination), separatists often place their artillery in residential areas and open fire from there, so the Ukrainian army fires back to suppress it - and of course may hit the buildings and other objects in the vicinity.

[Strike For The South]

It's August 22nd and Putin is still a fascist.

[Gilrandir]

It's August 22nd and Putin is still a fascist.

Hardly looks that:

[Gilrandir]

Russia's crackdown on Wikipedia:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/russia-o...24-gj6sty.html

[Gilrandir]

On Russia's casualties in Ukraine:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrode...-east-ukraine/

And Europe FINALLY identified the red line for Russia - not just vague "escalation", but elections in Donbas if held by DPR and LPR:
http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/coun...ia_505223.html

[Husar]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-...ays-1440668275

Only a matter of time until Paul Singer completely ruins Ukraine now by buying the debt and demanding a full repayment while getting another country to hold Ukraine's military hostage until he gets his money. It's what he does in his righteous crusade against evil countries that don't repay their hedge funds.
And you were scared of Putin.

[Strike For The South]

It's August 27th and Putin is still a fascist.

[Gilrandir]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-...ays-1440668275

Only a matter of time until Paul Singer completely ruins Ukraine now by buying the debt and demanding a full repayment while getting another country to hold Ukraine's military hostage until he gets his money. It's what he does in his righteous crusade against evil countries that don't repay their hedge funds.
And you were scared of Putin.

I remember once you were suprised why people wanted you to pay for reading something that THEY wanted you to read. Same here.

Now to the point.
While Putin's aggression is what Ukraine is experiencing AT THE MOMENT, the Paul Singer prediction is only a wishful thinking for you. So, as the saying goes, the wolf that one hears is worse than the orc that one fears.

But meanwhile Ukraine got a breathing space with its debt situation and I think that this deal with the creditors is the best possible one that Ukraine could strike.

And Putin's popularity had a prodigious drop - from 89% support to meager 83%.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...n/2082652.html

He must do something quickly, otherwise it may plummet to unthinkable 82% or even 81%.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...avages-economy

[Husar]

I remember once you were suprised why people wanted you to pay for reading something that THEY wanted you to read. Same here.

Ah, yes, didn't read it myself, the headline will do. I just looked for an article in English real quick because I read about it in German.
You're also reading too much into the Paul Singer thing.

I'm waiting for the day where Putin gets 20% of the vote.

[Gilrandir]

I'm waiting for the day where Putin gets 20% of the vote.

Traditionally, Russian leaders must enjoy the maximum popularity. Until they are assasinated, deposed or die of senility. If either of this happens, you will see weeping crowds bemoaning the deceased, much as it was when Stalin died.


A picture from Heidenau where the anti-immigrant crowd sports a DPR flag. Now where do nazis live?



And a shocking discovery. Zakharchenko, "the president of DPR", in spring 2014 took part in meetings in Donetsk ON PRO-UKRAINIAN SIDE.

http://ru.espreso.tv/news/2015/08/29...aynskoy_vlasty
He is rumored to have been a paid titushka who protected some official building from a crowd desiring to free Gubarev who had been arrested.

[Gilrandir]

I don't know if we should have a new thread on this or are such things just symptomatic for Putin and can be posted here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...an-rebels.html

Will we hear of paratroopers who got lost during the exercises in Rostov region and found themselves in Syria? Or has Putin abandoned the idea of Novorossia for the sake of Novosyria?

[CrossLOPER]

I don't know if we should have a new thread on this or are such things just symptomatic for Putin and can be posted here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...an-rebels.html

Will we hear of paratroopers who got lost during the exercises in Rostov region and found themselves in Syria? Or has Putin abandoned the idea of Novorossia for the sake of Novosyria?

What is wrong with defending strategic assets abroad?

[wooly_mammoth]

What's wrong with shooting terrorists?

[Montmorency]

What's wrong with imposing the will of God upon non-believers?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What's wrong with imposing the will of God upon non-believers?

That depends on whether it's the right God or not.

Speaking of which - anyone got a lead on the True Cross?

[Gilrandir]

What is wrong with defending strategic assets abroad?

There is everything wrong with defending strategic assests abroad and denying it. And that is the way Russia has adopted of late.

And the second wrong with it is defining what is "abroad". The current government of Russia seems to be at a loss when defining the boundaries of their own realm often including into it lands and peoples others (including those very lands and peoples) consider to be outside of it.

[Gilrandir]

http://joinfo.com/world/1008671_russ...he-donbas.html
Well, I liked that.
- Will you go to Donbas to kill your Ukrainian brethren?
- Alrighty.
- Sorry guys, there has been a change to the initial plan - you are going to Syria to kill those dirty (in the direct meaning - "nonhygienic") Arabs.
- Oh no. The deal is off.

[Strike For The South]

It's September 19th and Putin is still a fascist.

[Husar]

http://joinfo.com/world/1008671_russ...he-donbas.html
Well, I liked that.
- Will you go to Donbas to kill your Ukrainian brethren?
- Alrighty.
- Sorry guys, there has been a change to the initial plan - you are going to Syria to kill those dirty (in the direct meaning - "nonhygienic") Arabs.
- Oh no. The deal is off.

Syria seems super funny (if we ignore the actual human tragedies for a moment).
Lots of refugees noone wants,, lots of parties noone supports and now the only big power in the world that wants to get boots on the grounds to stop the islamists by supporting the similarly disliked dictator is so unorganized that it cannot even get its own soldiers to go.