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Thread: A request from Brennus

  1. #31
    ΤΑΞΙΑΡΧΟΣ Member kdrakak's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).
    Strongly Increases (5).

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?
    Vicious Circle (Interest leads to EB. EB leads to more interest... and so on)

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).
    Absolutely Yes (1)

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.
    Improved.

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?
    Strength: Immersion in the era Weakness: AI (Strat and Tactical)

    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).
    It makes it strongly appealing (5).
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  2. #32
    Terrible Tactician Member Shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Interesting questions. :)

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).
    Strongly increases. It definitely adds a lot to a strategy game dealing with the past if that past is depicted (as) accurately (as possible).

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?
    Yes. EB was the sort of game I always hoped TW Vanilla (which I played all parts of from Shogun I to Medieval II) would be, just because I have been interested in history since I was able to read. And after the first hours with EB I began to realize how much I didn't know about this part of our past. So EB made me spend more money on books, for example.

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).
    Yes. Definitely. (I don't watch TV at all, though.)

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.
    Both, actually. Before EB - just as an example - I had neglected the ancient (south) arabian history. The Sab'yn appearance in EB changed that. Another example is the history of Carthage. Before EB my knowledge was solely based on the opinions (or prejudices, rather) the Romans and Greeks had about them. After my first EB Qart'Hadasht campaign I began searching around and - while still being far from having a "real"/solid knowledge - have definitely improved in that part. ("Carthage must be destroyed" is a definite read for everyone interested in the history of that city, by the way. Can't say that often enough. A brilliant overview over several hundred years of struggle.)

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?
    Greatest strength: The immersion, achieved through a love for (even tiny) details, I haven't seen or heard of often in the history of computer games. And due to the immersion, a very satisfying gameplay.

    Greatest weakness: The engine limitations, ranging from the rather simplified, restricted and sometimes outrageously unrealistic diplomacy (although that has much improved in EB II, especially with Grantos work) to the hardcoded limits like max number of units or factions or provinces or religions etc.
    Although those limits serve for a greater good, too. I don't even want to imagine an EB team trying to research/model/skin/script 250 factions, 1000 provinces, endless units etc. If there weren't such strict limits there would perhaps never have been an EB 2.01 ...


    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).
    Strongly appealing. Both EB appearances are in their respective boundaries (see "greatest weakness") among the best strategy games I ever played.* The fact that both iterations are based on vanilla games (R:TW/MII:TW) that were "okay" or "nice" and that they rose to such a quality level by the work of a group of unpaid volunteers who sacrificed their spare time .... "strongly appealing" is not really the term that comes to my mind, to be honest. I'd rather use words like "unbelievable" or "utterly fantastic" to describe what I feel about both projects.

    * EB II has the potential to become - in my personal universe at least - the best strategy game. Even in it's currently unfinished state it surpasses EB I already (just because of the better scripting possiblilities and the by far better diplomacy), though.
    If When it's finished, it will be better than my other "strategy game sanctuaries", Jagged Alliance II and Civilization II, I'm sure about that. :)
    Finished EB Campaigns: Kart-Hadast 1.0/1.2 | Pontos 1.1 | Arche Seleukeia 1.2 | Hayasdan 1.2 | Sab'yn 1.2 | Makedonia 1.2 (Alex)
    Lost Campaigns (1.2, Alex. exe): Getai | Sab'Yn
    Ongoing campaigns (1.2): SPQR (110 BC) | Sab'yn (217 BC) | Pontos (215 BC)
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  3. #33

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.

    Totally improved

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?

    Its buildings, units and voices of course, the atmosphere it has.
    the weakness is the game engine itself,(limitid factions etc..) you guys have really great ideas, I wish more games were made by people like you who look not at the revenue the game will make but the atmosphere itself.


    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).

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  4. #34
    Member Member 75Antons's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).

    For me, as I assume for most of us that play or have played both EBI and EBII the historical accuracy is a massive bonus and (5) strongly increases the enjoyment of the game. It gives a certain credence to the game that is woefully missing in the vanilla versions of the source games.

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?

    As I have always had a major interest in history, I will be honest and say it hasn't made much difference, although, it has added to my knowledge which can only be a good thing.

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).

    (1) By the Gods yes. Too many "historical" movies/programs disregard historical accuracy. Braveheart anyone?

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.

    Simply. Yes.

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?

    The depth and the play-ability of all the factions is a true strength and a testament to the work put into the mod by the team. I must admit to dismay with random CTD's. But I guess I am not alone in that.

    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).

    I makes it appealing (4). It would be a (5) if I could be of any use. For you guys, it's a pity my "missus" doesn't play TW as she would be able to help. (Doctorate in cognitive computing)

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  5. #35
    Uergobretos Senior Member Brennus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalingum View Post
    I assume this has been though of beforehand, but it seems to me that this enquiry can hardly be called unbiased, seeing as it is posted in what essentially amounts to a subforum dedicated to either fandom or development of the mod. While my own words above give an example of the perception of history being changed, I don't think someone with no interest in history whatsoever would linger here long enough to answer these questions. I can't really think of a way to 'improve' this situation, but I thought I'd just mention it just in case. If the issue has been though of before, this can be safely disregarded of course.

    Lastly, is there any chance of a transcript of your paper being posted here or on the TWC? I'd be interested to read what you're going to say about the subject. I don't know if the university of Leicester has any restrictions on the accessibility of papers written by those affiliated to it, but I can't think of a reason as to why it would be impossible at the moment (I'm not really familiar with the workings of university research of course).
    Sorry for taking so long to respond (damn you Microsoft Access.... and that methodology I was using for cremation burials... that wasn't working. I will fix it) I am thinking about trying to set up a control sample of surveyants at Leicester in order to offset the bias which this sample group undoubtedly has (and thank you!).

    I have checked with the conference and unfortunately they are not producing proceedings. However, I intend to try and use this data to write a paper for one of the academic journals which focuses on computer games, as there are already quite a few interesting papers out there which discuss issues of narrative and representations of the past in computer and video games. Assuming my paper is approved for publication, and depending on the rules governing publication, I will happily share it here and TWC.... after all, none of this is possible without you guys.



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  6. #36

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).


    (5) Strongly increases!

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?

    I would say it was always there for me, but for lack of a better word, a game makes history "come alive" in a way that I don't think any other medium can. It has definitely increased my interest in tactics and weapons.

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).


    (1) Absolutely yes!

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.

    Definitely improved. I wouldn't say there was any earth-shattering revelations about it for me, but perhaps the best thing I can say is that it made that period feel more alive, real and immediate for me than any other medium has before.

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?

    Its strengths and weaknesses are the exact same thing - the sheer amount of detail, slow pace, often-unforgiving realism are something that is a huge draw for people like myself, but I think they also deter many people, because the game suddenly feels daunting, or doesn't satisfy what they expect a game with epic battles is supposed to feel like.

    It does have some technical weaknesses of course, like AI problems, but those are mostly inherited from TW itself.

    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).


    It does to me! But I've always been a big advocate of remix and collaboration culture. I think EB is one of the best examples of it in gaming history, and it's a real success story thanks to this active community. As a long-time modder and simulation fan, I can't say enough how much a dynamic, open, fan-driven community makes a difference. It's a testament to the strength of the team's work that it's still very much active after some 10 years of work. The longevity, openness and scope of the project lends it a kind of ethos few things in gaming have.

    Thanks again for your work and all the best at the conference

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  7. #37

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).


    5


    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?

    Yes. Im already an amateur history student (helps with my profession of scriptwriter) and games/mods like EB1-2 just give extra incentive and enjoyment in learning a bit more about history.



    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).


    1


    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14?

    Yes. Enourmously. Playing the game also drives me to study more by myself in order to compare my achievements with the historcial progress of the faction im playing.



    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?

    The greatest strenght of the game is the immersion that it offers to the player. In my opinion its greatest weakness are the limitations of the total war engine. I just cant see weaknesses in EB design alone, everything seems to be made with uncanny detail.


    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).


    2. I just found out about EB2 (played the first one for years) so i cant comment on this. Opening up to volunteers makes the project more alive i guess.

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  8. #38

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Here is my contribution, if it is still applicable. My replies in bold.

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?
    I was already interested in history. What EB did was to unravel the Hellenistic Age and shift my interest for ancient history to that time period.

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.
    Definitely! My knowledge of the Hellenistic age was very shallow and confined to the important states of Rome and eastern Mediterranean.

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?
    The greatest strength would be immersion and of course EB's deeply knowledgeable members.
    The greatest weakness could be the perceived complexity that may deter many people from contributing in crucial technical matters.


    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).
    It makes it strongly appealing (5).
    Last edited by spade; 02-10-2015 at 19:25. Reason: Text format
    sigpic67170_1.gif

  9. #39

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).
    Strongly Increases (5).

    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?
    I have always been interested in this time period, but EB integrated history in depth into game play. You can't help but learn while you play this amazing transformation of a mod.

    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).
    Yes (1) Knowing the effort and amount of depth of history the EB team put into this mod makes it all the more rewarding to play. I only wish that could be said about more games. It was a refreshing change.

    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.
    Improved without question. I learned more about this time period from EB than I ever had in school. It even sparked my interest in reading books about the subject.

    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?
    Strength: The ability to recreate an amazing time period with depth and accurately while still being without doubt, one of my favorite mod/game of all time. I started playing EB shortly after its release quite a few years ago, and it continues to entertain and teach me to this very day. Weakness: I don't believe it has a weakness. Easily the best designed game/mod I have ever played.

    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).
    It makes it strongly appealing (5).

  10. #40
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: A request from Brennus

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Do you feel that increased historical accuracy detracts from or increases the excitement/enjoyment of such games?
    Strongly Detracts (1). Detracts (2). Has no real effect (3). Increases (4). Strongly Increases (5).


    (5) Strongly increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    As a result of playing Europa Barbarorum have you developed a greater interest in history, archaeology or the past in general?


    Yes. EB has been the most elemental force in driving me to study Classics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Would you prefer to see more historical accuracy in other games, or other forms of visual media such as films or television programmes?
    Yes (1). No (2). Indifferent (3).


    (1) Yes, absolutely!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Has playing Europa Barbarorum improved or altered your understanding of the period 272BC – AD14.


    Definitely improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    As a game, what is the greatest strength of Europa Barbarorum and what is perhaps its greatest weakness?


    Strength: Immersion
    Weakness: The vanilla game it's based on; a polished up pac-man


    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Does the fact that Europa Barbarorum is open to volunteers and fan contributions make its work more appealing or not.
    It makes it very unappealing (1). It is not appealing (2). No real effect (3). It makes it appealing (4). It makes it strongly appealing (5).


    (5) Strongly appealing

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Once again, thank you to everyone who has taken an interest in this modification, and thank you for taking part in this survey and sharing your thoughts. And remember,

    Quisque est Barbarus Alio.



    Barbarus sum. Nihil Barbaricus mihi alienum.

    Mouzafphaerre
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

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    .

  11. #41
    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Sorry for taking so long to respond (damn you Microsoft Access.... and that methodology I was using for cremation burials... that wasn't working. I will fix it) I am thinking about trying to set up a control sample of surveyants at Leicester in order to offset the bias which this sample group undoubtedly has (and thank you!).

    I have checked with the conference and unfortunately they are not producing proceedings. However, I intend to try and use this data to write a paper for one of the academic journals which focuses on computer games, as there are already quite a few interesting papers out there which discuss issues of narrative and representations of the past in computer and video games. Assuming my paper is approved for publication, and depending on the rules governing publication, I will happily share it here and TWC.... after all, none of this is possible without you guys.
    Brennus in light of recent events, I've come to the conclusion that the total war gaming system lends itself better to shorter "Campaign" scenarios, limited in scale and scope, rather than addressing regional military and political develop over an extended period.
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

    Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.

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  12. #42

    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Sorry for taking so long to respond (damn you Microsoft Access.... and that methodology I was using for cremation burials... that wasn't working. I will fix it) I am thinking about trying to set up a control sample of surveyants at Leicester in order to offset the bias which this sample group undoubtedly has (and thank you!).

    I have checked with the conference and unfortunately they are not producing proceedings. However, I intend to try and use this data to write a paper for one of the academic journals which focuses on computer games, as there are already quite a few interesting papers out there which discuss issues of narrative and representations of the past in computer and video games. Assuming my paper is approved for publication, and depending on the rules governing publication, I will happily share it here and TWC.... after all, none of this is possible without you guys.
    Any news on this? :)

  13. #43
    Uergobretos Senior Member Brennus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A request from Brennus

    Sorry for the delayed reply.

    So I attended the conference and represented the team. The talk was well received (even if I did manage to slightly forget the order of my slides, but that is what happens when you present without notes). Anyway, I am hoping to use the data gathered from the questionaires from the Org, TWC and the EB Facebook page to prepare an article over the summer to be submitted to one of the academic journals which deals with electronic media.

    Once again thank you to everyone who contributed, if I have any success with publication I shall let you know.



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