[Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes and many others

[QuintusSertorius]

Greetings one and all! I've been promising this for a while and I'm glad that I can finally offer something concrete. The mod is still progressing in the background, even if things seem a bit quiet, hopefully this will demonstrate the team is still at work. Furthermore, here's something you can all do to help which doesn't require much more effort than installing this change and trying it out (and reporting back).

Partly as a result of the previous thread, I'm now Ibrahim's EDU-sidekick, implementing stuff for testing before they make the next release. Thanks to some assistance from Voice of Treason, I haven't wasted four weeks of work and now have a functional, updated export_descr_unit.txt and new descr_projectiles.txt to trial. The former is an update of my own work with a lot of changes that feature in the current build's EDU, including many balancing fixes, consistency checks, a complete reworking of fatigue and some new ideas on how to model things like levy spearmen.

Cavalry formations have been tightened generally, all but horse archers now have close formations. There should be a very noticeable different in fatigue - both from increases in stat_heat across the board and the removal of hardy/downgrading of very_hardy to hardy for many units.

The descr_projectiles.txt is the new one from the current build, which should fix the unimpressive default javelins from 2.01. I've also carried over slightly longer ranges for javelineers, though infantry now default to 60m and cavalry 55m (it was 70m and 60m in my unofficial fix). Let me know how that works out - are javelineers still throwing them at those ranges?


This is fairly close to the final version, so it's relatively safe to use for a campaign, but beware any future edits won't be savegame compatible. Generally EDU changes should be, but since 2.01 I've never found them to be, so to save yourself a lot of restarted campaigns, either don't start one or use any subsequent updates for custom battles only. I'll try to keep re-issuing an updated EDU for major edits/fixes, rather than tweaking stats or correcting omissions.

On to the goods.

Here are the two files you need (install both in [Your M2TW directory]\mods\EBII\data, overwriting what's there - backup your originals first):

EDIT12 (3/5/15): export_descr_unit.txt - a host of little tweaks all over the place:

• Numerous sword/knife discrepancies resolved
• Carthaginian Sacred Band, KH Bodyguard and Epilektoi Hoplitai now equal in attack stats to Hypaspistai
• A few more morale tweaks
• The two Kretan units now have the correct secondary weapon stats
• Some stat_ground changes for Celtic and Germanic units

EDIT3 (22/4/15): descr_projectile.txt - complete overhaul with new projectiles, all with regular names - "medium_arrow" instead of "arrow160".

Make sure you install them both; if you forget the second you'll get an error or CTD given the first refers to it.

One more associated file everyone should be using that is linked to the EDU and D_P changes is the battle_config.xml. Kill rates for missiles has been increased (from 0.35 to 0.75), and for melee slightly decreased (from 0.35 to 0.3): EDIT: battle_config.zip (unzip into the same location as the other files - this should be savegame compatible).

I'd highly recommend everyone use z3n's updated pathfinding, BAI and CAI. The pathfinding in particular will be important with the next update.

Enjoy! Please make sure you report back what you find with it. What's good, what's not so good, what looks funny and so on. All feedback welcome.


OPTIONAL: Campaign updates including Bosporan recruitment fix

I'm now in a position to start thinking about campaigns. This is not officially endorsed, though it's a change the team is experimenting with in the next release. That being the removal of the scripted boosts to troop replenishment the AI Hellenistic factions get in 2.01 (which may be reponsible in part for the "Pergamon has one province, but four full stacks" issue.

In addition, the Bosporans were forgotten about in an update of the Hellenistic Poleis building, meaning they lose out on a load of recruitment options in settlements featuring them (including their capital). I've fixed that so they should have a lot more troops to choose from, both as player and AI.

If you want to try a campaign with both of these updates, download this: EDIT: export_descr_buildings.txt.

Lastly, I've been tinkering around with the options in the Hellenistic Poleis, making them give all the levy Greek troops, but no phalanxes. If you want to try all of the above, but with my completely unofficial tweak, download this instead: EDIT: export_descr_buildings.txt.

In both instances, NOT savegame compatible, and you need to delete your map.rwm before starting a new campaign.

[QuintusSertorius]

I've noted more people have viewed the EDU than descr_projectiles. Just a gentle reminder, you absolutely need both of them in order to use the new EDU, without the D_P you'll get a CTD, since there are references to weapons that don't exist in the old D_P.

[Shadowwalker]

Very interesting. Will try it out and report if (when) I experience any differences.

Two comments:

(1) Oversight or intentional?

Uisusparos Kingetoi
-soldier: models increased from 64 to 80; collision mass decreased from 1.11 to 0.9
-added mount_effect horse +2
-attributes: hardy removed
-stat_pri: base attack reduced from 9 to 5; charge value from 2 to 0; weapon changed to javelin50; range reduced from 70m to 60m
-stat_pri_attr: added ap
-stat_heat: increased from 1 to 2


Mercenary Uisusparos Kingetoi
-soldier: models increased from 64 to 80; collision mass decreased from 1.11 to 1
-attributes: hardy removed
-stat_pri: base attack reduced from 9 to 5; charge value from 2 to 0; weapon changed to javelin50; range reduced from 70m to 60m
-stat_pri_attr: added ap
-stat_pri_attr: added spear_bonus_4
-stat_heat: increased from 1 to 2

(2) I can't seem to find the answer anywhere - what does "soldier: models decreased from 25 to 20;" or similar mean? Is that the # of different armours/shields/clothings etc? Does it mean completely different battlefield appearance of the unit? Or perhaps "just" a measure about how "detailed" a unit is? I'm pretty much clueless. . .

Third comment of two : Reading that spoiler in your first post makes me wonder how long you worked on these changes. (And this is but one "small" part of the mod and two files only . . . )

[QuintusSertorius]

Very interesting. Will try it out and report if (when) I experience any differences.

Two comments:

(1) Oversight or intentional?



(2) I can't seem to find the answer anywhere - what does "soldier: models decreased from 25 to 20;" or similar mean? Is that the # of different armours/shields/clothings etc? Does it mean completely different battlefield appearance of the unit? Or perhaps "just" a measure about how "detailed" a unit is? I'm pretty much clueless. . .

Third comment of two : Reading that spoiler in your first post makes me wonder how long you worked on these changes. (And this is but one "small" part of the mod and two files only . . . )

1) Intentional - the mercenary variety is better than the non-mercenary variant. The first are levies called up at short notice, the second men who choose war as their livelihood. It's not universal across levy/mercenary versions of the same unit, I think it's something being tried out.
2) It means the unit has been made smaller - the number of models is the base number your choice on unit scale is multiplied by.

I didn't work continuously for four weeks, but there's a good 16-20 hours worth in editing and documenting. The documenting took up at least half of that time (and you can see the results in that spoiler).

[Shadowwalker]

Thanks for the quick reply.

(1) Makes perfect sense to me. I just wondered why the numbers were different for this unit but not for all. I'll try them an see if that slight change makes for any significant difference in battle performance.

(2) Silly me. Should have known this.

And I expected that the documentation process would have taken a lot of time, since it's far from just "copy and paste" but rather looks like some tedious "write one line - compare to the old version - write updated line - add updated line to list for the changelog post - write next line"...

[Saigrin]

Wow that looks sincerely like a lot of work done. I've tried the unnoficial mods "fixing" some issues, and most of them were very interesting.

This very night I'm going to start a new campaign with this updated tools, I promise feedback if I find any problems ;)

And, of course THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your work, team!

[Saigrin]

Sadly, I have to say I suffered a CTD when I installed the modifications. I rescued the old archives and the game ran correctly, sorry to say that.

It's as much as I could do, if you guide me, i'll try to do something.

Note: I installed it over the last version available

[QuintusSertorius]

Sadly, I have to say I suffered a CTD when I installed the modifications. I rescued the old archives and the game ran correctly, sorry to say that.

It's as much as I could do, if you guide me, i'll try to do something.

Note: I installed it over the last version available

Do you have your error logs (see [Your M2TW directory]\logs)? When did the CTD occur - startup, faction selection, in battle?

[Shadowwalker]

That's odd.
I started another Carthage campaign after installing the two files and had no problems at all.
You did delete your map.rwm, right?
And you didn't try to load a previous save, either? (This would result in a definite CTD, since the EDU is changed.)

[Saigrin]

Strange... I did as you said, deleting that map.rwm file, and tried again with the new EDU and its pal, but I couldn't create a new game, nor loading a previous saved game.

Well, I'll wait to the next release to enjoy these changes, its not a big deal.

Thanks!

[QuintusSertorius]

Strange... I did as you said, deleting that map.rwm file, and tried again with the new EDU and its pal, but I couldn't create a new game, nor loading a previous saved game.

Well, I'll wait to the next release to enjoy these changes, its not a big deal.

Thanks!

When you delete the map.rwm, you can't load an existing save - you have to start a new game in order to generate a new map.rwm (even if you then go back to your old save). However, I am pretty certain this will not work with existing saves, and you have to play either a new campaign, or custom battles in order to test it.

[Saigrin]

Do you have your error logs (see [Your M2TW directory]\logs)? When did the CTD occur - startup, faction selection, in battle?

I'll look for it when I'm off work, thanks ;)

[QuintusSertorius]

There's a whole host of consistency checks I've found now I'm not stuck in the middle of it, plus the unexplored phalangite issues, so I'd highly recommend people don't use this version to start new campaigns with. As in stick to custom battles until the immediate issues have been found and fixed.

[Thoras]

So in phalanx fights they don't all switch to swords?

In guard mode most stay and use the pikes ,but it also depneds on the enmey unit.It is not optimal since they don't really do aything for most of the time,They don't even move the pikes or attack.If one gets through not all but those the men close to that enemy switch,which is better than vanilla Med2 behavior,but still not as good as Rome 1.And would normally result in more men comming through which doesn't happen(weird).Without guard mode they do use the pikes in the begininng to kill quite a few enemies, but the fact that they are marching forward means that they will switch relativly soon.

[Shadowwalker]

There's a whole host of consistency checks I've found now I'm not stuck in the middle of it, plus the unexplored phalangite issues, so I'd highly recommend people don't use this version to start new campaigns with. As in stick to custom battles until the immediate issues have been found and fixed.

I deliberately started a new campaign (as Qart'Hadasht, hehe, must be my 10th EB 2 campaign with them already, I simply love their government system and units).

I played very defensively, allied with the Massylians, Luso, Arverni and Makedons, didn't even try to defend/save Alalia when the Romans came for it (oddly enough they never seem to come for Nora after that) and in general just sat there building up my little trade empire and hit "toggle_fow" ever so often.

The changes made to the EDU seem not to alter the campaign balance (which was what I wanted to see and what made me start a campaign at all ). I spent the whole thursday on this campaign and am at turn 253 now. I saw nothing that I never saw before (except perhaps the Ptolemaioi grabbing Sardis from the AS early on).

So the (still rudimentary, I know) campaign balance is not affected.

Of course I played a battle or two with the Carthaginian units, too.
I stood away from the (macedonian) phalanx units.

The skirmishers behave as they always do since your "unofficial" fix - almost perfectly. The only problem they have is that they aren't retreating fast enough (they never did since the release of EB 2.0). I'm not sure if this is intentional, it's not a big problem for me, though, as I tend to use at least half of my skirmisher units as bait for the enemy cavalry anyway.

The higher cavalry speed doesn't help avoiding the horses, too. You were absolutely right about the Numidians, by the way.
This higher speed makes it very much essential to have your own light cavalry wings, since the heavier cavalry can't even nearly move quickly enough to prevent them from (for example) get around your flanks, obliterate your archers and retreat again. Frightening! (And fascinating at the same time.)

Oh: still no crashes for me, despite the consistency issues you mentioned.

[Thoras]

The only problem they have is that they aren't retreating fast enough (they never did since the release of EB 2.0)

They do in my game(against hoplites),they throw and retreat and then run away and throw again if the distance is long enough.Did you test them against fast enemy infantry?

[QuintusSertorius]

In guard mode most stay and use the pikes ,but it also depneds on the enmey unit.It is not optimal since they don't really do aything for most of the time,They don't even move the pikes or attack.If one gets through not all but those the men close to that enemy switch,which is better than vanilla Med2 behavior,but still not as good as Rome 1.And would normally result in more men comming through which doesn't happen(weird).Without guard mode they do use the pikes in the begininng to kill quite a few enemies, but the fact that they are marching forward means that they will switch relativly soon.

Interesting, so Guard Mode actually does something. I wonder if there's an attribute which switches it on by default (so that AI phalanxes don't turn into swordsmen)?

I deliberately started a new campaign (as Qart'Hadasht, hehe, must be my 10th EB 2 campaign with them already, I simply love their government system and units).

I played very defensively, allied with the Massylians, Luso, Arverni and Makedons, didn't even try to defend/save Alalia when the Romans came for it (oddly enough they never seem to come for Nora after that) and in general just sat there building up my little trade empire and hit "toggle_fow" ever so often.

The changes made to the EDU seem not to alter the campaign balance (which was what I wanted to see and what made me start a campaign at all ). I spent the whole thursday on this campaign and am at turn 253 now. I saw nothing that I never saw before (except perhaps the Ptolemaioi grabbing Sardis from the AS early on).

So the (still rudimentary, I know) campaign balance is not affected.

Of course I played a battle or two with the Carthaginian units, too.
I stood away from the (macedonian) phalanx units.

The skirmishers behave as they always do since your "unofficial" fix - almost perfectly. The only problem they have is that they aren't retreating fast enough (they never did since the release of EB 2.0). I'm not sure if this is intentional, it's not a big problem for me, though, as I tend to use at least half of my skirmisher units as bait for the enemy cavalry anyway.

The higher cavalry speed doesn't help avoiding the horses, too. You were absolutely right about the Numidians, by the way.
This higher speed makes it very much essential to have your own light cavalry wings, since the heavier cavalry can't even nearly move quickly enough to prevent them from (for example) get around your flanks, obliterate your archers and retreat again. Frightening! (And fascinating at the same time.)

Oh: still no crashes for me, despite the consistency issues you mentioned.

Thanks for that. Not sure why some people are getting CTDs with the secondary weapon issue and others aren't.

I wouldn't expect campaign balance to change much, a lot of the alterations are more significant in played-out battles than auto-calc ones.

Light cavalry are going to get slower in the next update; how are people finding heavier cavalry?

They do in my game(against hoplites),they throw and retreat and then run away and throw again if the distance is long enough.Did you test them against fast enemy infantry?

It's always a tricky balancing act between the skirmish range and throwing range (that distance is smaller now I've shortened ranges slightly), but I'm relieved to hear it's working.

[GRANTO]

some feedback...clean new install eb2..maps deleted and stuff
...added your files ...
ctd when starting a new campaign...
maps deleted and stuff...replaced your files with originals ...
no ctd ..campaign starts...

although ...custom battles work....no log,

might try a new install of everything from scratch.

[Saigrin]

Hi everyone warriors.

At last, I was able to invest some time investigating what was going wrong, and that was my last try:

I copy-pasted the EDU and projectiles data files over the ones in the Data folder. After that, I deleted the maps.wrm file and started the game. No CTD until I pushed the "Start" button when choosing faction, some seconds with my computer frozen and I was thrown to desktop with violence. I had the log at the fist try, but at the second one it magically dissapeared... Well that is as much as I can do with my knowledge, I accept suggestions.

EDIT: I achieved to save a log from a new try, I paste some of the last lines below:

22:58:12.619 [system.io] [trace] file open,,mods/EBII/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_faction_movies.xml,6341
22:58:12.619 [system.io] [info] open: found mods/EBII/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_faction_movies.xml (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.683 [system.io] [trace] file open,,0D6C6540,269344
22:58:12.683 [system.io] [info] open: found mods/EBII/data/text/historic_events.txt.strings.bin (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.687 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/EBII/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_disasters.txt
22:58:12.688 [system.io] [info] exists: found mods/EBII/data/world/maps/base/descr_disasters.txt (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.688 [system.io] [trace] file open,,0D6C65B8,1704
22:58:12.688 [system.io] [info] open: found mods/EBII/data/world/maps/base/descr_disasters.txt (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.760 [system.io] [info] exists: found mods/EBII/data/descr_area_effects.xml (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.760 [system.io] [trace] file open,,mods/EBII/data/descr_area_effects.xml,6954
22:58:12.760 [system.io] [info] open: found mods/EBII/data/descr_area_effects.xml (from: C:\juegos\Medieval II Total War)
22:58:12.857 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.

Thanks, team.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think it overwrites the previous log with the current. Those errors you've posted above have nothing to do with the new EDU, but your first one might have.

[Saigrin]

I think it overwrites the previous log with the current. Those errors you've posted above have nothing to do with the new EDU, but your first one might have.

I have no problem waiting for your next release, I only hoped to be of some help ;).

Best regards, thanks

[QuintusSertorius]

Quick update, as in the OP I'd said I'll only release material updates, rather than deluging you with a new file every time I tweak some small thing. Fixing the broken phalangite animation issue isn't "some small thing", and I've removed the secondary weapon from the Pantodapoi and Illyrioi phalangites for the time being, along with sorted the funny spacing for the Machimoi phalanx. There's also a host of minor amendments (mostly consistency; so that lancers have the same attack stats with their lances, and all javelineer-skirmishers being equally useful against elephants), but what I haven't finished yet is the reworking of cavalry speeds. That should be in the next day or two, and once done I'll be putting an update here and removing the old one.

[QuintusSertorius]

Updated EDU in the first post, I've fixed the phalangites with no secondary weapon skeletons/animations and the spacing on the Machimoi phalangites. Numerous little tweaks, but a revision of cavalry speeds, which mostly impacts the lighter ones, who will be slower. Even those Numidians!

[GRANTO]

still cant start a campaign with clean instals...

[QuintusSertorius]

still cant start a campaign with clean instals...

Have you got an error log entry?

[GRANTO]

there is a log...but i can see nothing that would cause it..i will post it for you in a bit...custom battles still works

[QuintusSertorius]

there is a log...but i can see nothing that would cause it..i will post it for you in a bit...custom battles still works

Interesting; I get the same when I try to start a campaign, but custom battles work fine.

[MIKE GOLF]

When I get home I will start adding your update one unit at time non-projectile units first, and try and track down the issue.

[MIKE GOLF]

One error found on the 'indian elephant bodyguard' the initial number was 4, I changed it to read the following and it worked;
soldier Elephant_Archer_Crew, 12, 6, 1 will continue looking for other issues. Cheers.

This was done without changing any of the projectile entries, just working on the edu only. I believe that was the only issue. Checked with the projectiles info added everything is hopefully good now, just the one entry. Now I can start fighting some battles.... Looking forward to your hard work.

[QuintusSertorius]

One error found on the 'indian elephant bodyguard' the initial number was 4, I changed it to read the following and it worked;
soldier Elephant_Archer_Crew, 12, 6, 1 will continue looking for other issues. Cheers.

This was done without changing any of the projectile entries, just working on the edu only.

Ah, that's it! Though you've caught my incomplete edit. That should actually be 4, 2, 1 - the unit has been made smaller. That's why it was crashing where it was, thank you.

Updated EDU in the first post.