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Thread: What a Pahlava!

  1. #1

    Cool What a Pahlava!

    (Not sure if this is the right forum area for this, so apologies if it's in the wrong place)

    So, I recently decided to give Europa Barbarorum a go, getting rather tired of the glorious silliness that is vanilla R:TW. And against all better logic, despite being totally new to EB, I've gone with the Pahlava.

    I'm a few dozen turns in, and things are going semi-well. Blitzed AS early on and took Assak, Marakanda, Antiocheia-Margiane, Hekatompylos and Zadrakata. Managed to get a nice peace settlement with them and developed my economy. Baktria and Saka-Rauka seem friendly enough. The peace lasted until AS rolled in with a full twenty stack and re-took Hekatompylos (luckily I saw them coming and pulled the garrison out). My economy took a brief nose-dive while I lured the doom-stack into my territory and then routed it with pretty much every horseman in my empire. I have re-re-taken Hekatompylos, but my army has taken many casualties and they are far from the only two cities that can replenish them. Another doom-stack like that might end me. My priorities at the moment are establishing more recruitment areas, growing my population and taking the fight to the AS.

    Some observations/questions so far:
    - Should I take pastoralism in all of my homeland provinces?
    - Should I take pastoralism in all Silk Road provinces? Will this increase trade?
    - Where should I take pastoralism and where should I stick with nomadism?
    - Is it worth keeping Baktria around? They have only two provinces, but I am still allied with both them and Saka.
    - What is the best way to grow the Pahlavan economy? I say this as I am not making a lot of money, and buildings and units are a lot more expensive in EB.
    - Is it worth taking territory in India?
    - Phalanxes seem to be very heavily armoured and very stubborn, absorbing a lot of arrows and standing for a long time even after being charged from both sides.

    Really enjoying the mod so far! Feels like what R:TW should have been.

  2. #2
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: What a Pahlava!

    Hello BrotherSurplice, welcome to EB and to the .Org .

    Having never played Phalava, I can't help with the pastoralism questions, but a few general suggestions:

    1) Diplomacy in R:TW is broken, so the player faction is pretty much on its own. Diplomatic relationships automatically deteriorate when no positive interaction takes place, so the A.I. will start to hate you even when you do nothing. This can be counteracted by a regular, token tribute of 100 mnai, but that still won't protect you from opportunistic attacks or overrule other negative effects. If an A.I. faction has to chose between the player and another A.I. faction, it will almost always side against you, even when that makes no sense (attacking the Seleucids will frequently cause other factions make peace with them within a turn or so).

    So as to whether it's worth it to keep Bactria alive: they will betray at some point. However, attacking them will piss off the Saka, and likely reduce your "trustworthiness" rating with other factions, so I'd say it isn't worth the trouble. Just be ready to scramble a defence force against their inevitable betrayal.

    2) Economy: in EB, the best income sources are mines. Upgrading them is expensive, but well worth it. Second place goes to sea trade. However, that requires provinces with large natural ports (there is an artificial port upgrade, but that's far too expensive to bother with) and trade resources, and I am not sure if the Parthians have these nearby. It will be worth it once you reach the Mediterranean, though.

    3) Phalanxes are armoured, and have a far larger shield bonus than their small shield would suggest. Missile attacks from the front and left don't harm them: shoot them in the right flank or from behind. Getting axemen into their flanks also helps, as axes are armour-piercing. Other than that, there isn't a great deal you can do. There's a reason phalanxes were so successful, historically.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What a Pahlava!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    Hello BrotherSurplice, welcome to EB and to the .Org .
    Hello Ludens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    Having never played Phalava, I can't help with the pastoralism questions, but a few general suggestions:

    1) Diplomacy in R:TW is broken, so the player faction is pretty much on its own. Diplomatic relationships automatically deteriorate when no positive interaction takes place, so the A.I. will start to hate you even when you do nothing. This can be counteracted by a regular, token tribute of 100 mnai, but that still won't protect you from opportunistic attacks or overrule other negative effects. If an A.I. faction has to chose between the player and another A.I. faction, it will almost always side against you, even when that makes no sense (attacking the Seleucids will frequently cause other factions make peace with them within a turn or so).

    So as to whether it's worth it to keep Bactria alive: they will betray at some point. However, attacking them will piss off the Saka, and likely reduce your "trustworthiness" rating with other factions, so I'd say it isn't worth the trouble. Just be ready to scramble a defence force against their inevitable betrayal.
    I was afraid that that may be the case. I may have to back-stab the Baktrians soon though, as they've begun expanding into India.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    2) Economy: in EB, the best income sources are mines. Upgrading them is expensive, but well worth it. Second place goes to sea trade. However, that requires provinces with large natural ports (there is an artificial port upgrade, but that's far too expensive to bother with) and trade resources, and I am not sure if the Parthians have these nearby. It will be worth it once you reach the Mediterranean, though.
    I'll have to save up for some mines then. That will take a while though, and will stop me expanding my armies that are spread worryingly thin. It will be a while before I get to the Med. How lucrative is Indian Ocean trade? As an aside though, it seems that every region in the game has a ton of trade goods of some variation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    3) Phalanxes are armoured, and have a far larger shield bonus than their small shield would suggest. Missile attacks from the front and left don't harm them: shoot them in the right flank or from behind. Getting axemen into their flanks also helps, as axes are armour-piercing. Other than that, there isn't a great deal you can do. There's a reason phalanxes were so successful, historically.
    I was afraid that that may be the case as well, though I've installed a sub-mod that tweaks Phalanxes a little, making them slightly less armoured but with a bit more push, so that should alleviate the issue somewhat. I didn't know that shooting them in the left is ineffective, thanks for the tip.

  4. #4
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: What a Pahlava!

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherSurplice View Post
    I'll have to save up for some mines then. That will take a while though, and will stop me expanding my armies that are spread worryingly thin. It will be a while before I get to the Med. How lucrative is Indian Ocean trade? As an aside though, it seems that every region in the game has a ton of trade goods of some variation.
    Like I said, I never played Pahlava, so I don't know. But I think Indian Ocean trade is nowhere near as profitable as the Mediterranean. There are fewer ports, fewer trading partners (you can't trade with neutral or enemy owned ports) and IIRC you won't be able to build the bigger port structures. It will be worthwhile if you own a port or two and have a trading partner, but it's not worth going to war over (not in the least because that will probably lose you a trading partner).
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  5. #5
    EBII Bricklayer Member V.T. Marvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What a Pahlava!

    Wherever there is a choice, go for pastoralism - it allows far better economy later on.

    And the cool reforms in former "Persian" provinces.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What a Pahlava!

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    Wherever there is a choice, go for pastoralism - it allows far better economy later on.

    And the cool reforms in former "Persian" provinces.
    Ah, thanks. I knew about the reforms, but wasn't sure about the economy part.

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