10 years

[Fragony]

Nah. I like exposing hypocrites and cowards.
More importantly, I think it is one of the main reasons why my favourite political discussion board declined in quality so much.

As I was an involuntary subject that got drawn into this I kindly request that we should just leave it at this. I got hauled in so I deserve a say at least.

[Andres]

@Sarmatian @Strike For The South

1) Banquo: yes, I feel personnally responsible for his departure. I had my opinion and stood up for it. Along the line, I disregarded the person Banquo and his feelings. I was very harsh and my words were the drop that spilled the bucket for him. He stepped down. I pm'ed him, I apologised to him, he was very gentlemany, as he always was, and he sticked to his decision. But with no hard feelings. He actually stayed around for a very short time after it and then left.

Allthough he assured me that there were no hard feelings and that our friendship was still intact, all those years later, I still feel terrible about it. And rightly so

2) Louis. He only has himself to blame. Not only because of his behaviour in public, but also because of incidents that occurred in private. Incidents that I witnessed. I wasn't involved in those incidents, they happened between him and other staff members. It was impossible to keep him staff. I stood and am still standing 100 % after the decision made at the time. And allthough it was Ser's decision, I'm not going to be a coward and hide behind his back. He has my full support and if you want to verbally abuse Ser for it, then I'm standing next to him. My predecessor made the right decision. And nothing you say will change that.

If you think atmosphere among staff is/was so rotten that we/they amused/amuse ourselves/themselves with intrigues and forum politics including backstabbing and getting colleagues expelled and other petty games, well, I guess you believe what you want to believe.



Nothing I can change about that.

Food for thought: since Tosa's passing, only 1 staff member ever got himself expelled. 1.

As I said in the Watchtower, Louis is more than welcome to return as a member.

If he decides to start a drama thread in the Watchtower about this, then I'll most probably completely ignore it. Or spank his behind.

If you want to see me rot in a cage, then let me rot in a cage over Banquo, not Louis.

[Sarmatian]

See, this is complete BS again because you insinuate that:
1) I wanted him removed even before or during the first part of the affair, that is NOT true.
2) his public comments were somehow the official or inofficial reason given for his removal when in fact Ser Clegane never gave one single reason IIRC.
3) that he was somehow blameless or made only a minor mistake when in fact he backstabbed me several times, tried to discredit me with the other moderators because I voiced my opinion and treated me like a silly child while I repeatedly told him that this made me angry before I asked for him to be removed.

And those statements contradict one another. You say that there was absolutely no other reason you wanted Louis removed but the fag word, and then you mention how he bullied you and ignored your warnings before you asked him to be removed.

Or are ou saying that because he was funnier than me he had the right to bully me and I should have shut up and taken it?

If he indeed bullied you, you should have stood up to him, not go tell on him to the teacher.

Tell me why I should be fried at all.

Because if you and some others had little more spunk, we could have still had BG, Adrian and Louis.

@Sarmatian @Strike For The South

1) Banquo: yes, I feel personnally responsible for his departure. I had my opinion and stood up for it. Along the line, I disregarded the person Banquo and his feelings. I was very harsh and my words were the drop that spilled the bucket for him. He stepped down. I pm'ed him, I apologised to him, he was very gentlemany, as he always was, and he sticked to his decision. But with no hard feelings. He actually stayed around for a very short time after it and then left.

Allthough he assured me that there were no hard feelings and that our friendship was still intact, all those years later, I still feel terrible about it. And rightly so

2) Louis. He only has himself to blame. Not only because of his behaviour in public, but also because of incidents that occurred in private. Incidents that I witnessed. I wasn't involved in those incidents, they happened between him and other staff members. It was impossible to keep him staff. I stood and am still standing 100 % after the decision made at the time. And allthough it was Ser's decision, I'm not going to be a coward and hide behind his back. He has my full support and if you want to verbally abuse Ser for it, then I'm standing next to him. My predecessor made the right decision. And nothing you say will change that.

If you think atmosphere among staff is/was so rotten that we/they amused/amuse ourselves/themselves with intrigues and forum politics including backstabbing and getting colleagues expelled and other petty games, well, I guess you believe what you want to believe.

But you fail to see how those two cases are connected, and you're rationalizing now how you were wrong in one instance but right in the other. 50%/50% is better than 100% wrong. Actually, there was just one case and you were wrong. Also, you weren't an innocent bystander, but were actively involved. So, no, I don't buy your explanation.

Nothing I can change about that.

You've done enough already. Save yourself the burden.

Food for thought: since Tosa's passing, only 1 staff member ever got himself expelled. 1.

Because the examples like Banquo, those were bullied into resignation don't count, right? Anyway, I don't care about any others. I care about the backroom that I love. Yes, I'm totally self serving with this, and I'm annoyed that we lost three of our best contributors because people were childish and petty.

As I said in the Watchtower, Louis is more than welcome to return as a member.

He's not coming back, but why are you thinking you have the right to decide his status if he did?

If he decides to start a drama thread in the Watchtower about this, then I'll most probably completely ignore it. Or spank his behind.

If you want to see me rot in a cage, then let me rot in a cage over Banquo, not Louis.

Funnily enough, at this point I'd just like for some people to come clean, like Prole did. Or, in your case, to admit that it didn't have anything to do with the word fag, that you disliked him (and BG), and wanted him (them) gone.

I'm blaming you (plural) for Adrian, too, but in that case you didn't do anything directly. You just f***** things up enough so that he left on his own.

[Husar]

You say that there was absolutely no other reason you wanted Louis removed but the fag word

No, I never said that, where did you read this?
What I've been saying or trying to say the entire time was that this was a minor reason at best regarding the final decision but was never the single reason he got demoted.

If he indeed bullied you, you should have stood up to him, not go tell on him to the teacher.

It was completely useless, I had already debated with him and he kept calling others names and the staff became more and more divided until Ser Clegane pulled the plug before it became even worse. Louis was not going to give in and neither was I. The attempts of mine to get to an agreement with him were torpedoed by Louis repeatedly. Whether my PM to Ser Clegane changed anything about the end result I do not know, I was just saying that I did send it and wanted it, but only when it became obvious to me that Louis was lying and manipulating like crazy and blamed others of doing such things. And this was never the behavior that was wanted here by a staff member as far as I can tell. Keeping him around just because he was still funny to you is a ludicrous idea.

Oh and the reason we did not make this public earlier was that we did want him to stay as a member despite the things he did in private. He chose not to.

Because if you and some others had little more spunk, we could have still had BG, Adrian and Louis.

And if Louis had had a little more decency or honesty, he could still be a Moderator here. He is still free to come back as a member and I wouldn't even hold a grudge, the things above happened in the past and I'm willing to forgive to a degree as I was back then when he refused all solutions but that we would give him free reign of sorts.

Because the examples like Banquo, those were bullied into resignation don't count, right? Anyway, I don't care about any others. I care about the backroom that I love. Yes, I'm totally self serving with this

I wouldn't say Bnquo was bullied into resignation.
I for one had no idea how he felt until he resigned and by then his decision was already final and he refused to change it.
People voiced their opinions and he did not feel well with that, it's regrettable but I could only accept it.

and I'm annoyed that we lost three of our best contributors because people were childish and petty.

Louis was childish and petty. He was told that he was wrong and instead of trying to deal with it, he tried to deflect, lie and manipulate his way out because his ego was too big to just say he made a mistake nd defuse the situation. He played with fire and got burnt.

He's not coming back, but why are you thinking you have the right to decide his status if he did?

That was more or less the staff agreement when he got demoted, that he could stay or come back as a member whenever he wanted.
Pretty much everyone had some kind of regret for having to demote him, even the ones who were in favor of the decision because it simply was not a nice affair and should not have happened. That it did happen was due to how Louis behaved though and we could not influence that a lot. As I said, he refused every solution other than full surrender of everyone who thought he made a mistake and that was not an option for me since he was wrong, plain and simple.

[Beskar]

I think at this point, the conversation has reached its natural conclusion.

Addendum:
Look, I know people are aggrieved and feel like an injustice has been done, and there are those on different sides who haven't had their voices heard, but this is simply going to get worse and I don't feel the argument will be healthy. I would prefer not to get embroiled in moderating members (regular, ex-staff, staff, etc) over this issue for obvious reasons.