I'm hosting a game!

[Winston Hughes]

Serious response: I've been out of the game for a while but that role makes no sense to me.

It should be noted that this is an El Barto game, so assumptions about whether a claim makes sense carry rather less weight than they might under a different host (not that this is a criticism - it's part of Takhisis' charm).

How are you feeling about the other responses to Visor's claim, btw?

[Montmorency]

HARDCLAIM: I am a survivor. This will be the easiest victory I've ever had unless mafia/killing role decide for some reason I'm lying.

Seems sort of anti fun to claim - but I'm probably an early nightkill so I figure I'd be upfront and claim.

Maybe we're all just rusty, but this wording screams to me that Visor needs to be lynched.

[Winston Hughes]

What the claim has done though is take all the air out of any other case that might be made.

You think? I'd wager it provoked much more discussion than we'd have seen otherwise. Indeed, I've been wondering if Visor might move to a second-phase defence of "I'm just vanilla town trying to get people talking". His last question to me suggests that might be the case.

Of course as I write this I am struggling to not just go random myself…

There's no excuse for random voting now. We can vote people for what they've said (or for what they haven't said) with regards to the Visor wagon.

[Winston Hughes]

Maybe we're all just rusty

It might help you to know that Visor has been playing a lot of games in various different parts of the mafiaverse. From the rest of the roster, BSmith and myself have both been playing fairly regularly. I can't speak for anyone else.

[BSmith]

You think? I'd wager it provoked much more discussion than we'd have seen otherwise. Indeed, I've been wondering if Visor might move to a second-phase defence of "I'm just vanilla town trying to get people talking". His last question to me suggests that might be the case.

Absolutely. There is much more discussion than there otherwise would have been, which on balance is a positive thing. If Visor does backtrack into that defense, then I would be much more willing to vote for him.

There's no excuse for random voting now. We can vote people for what they've said (or for what they haven't said) with regards to the Visor wagon.

Indeed, which is why I haven’t voted for anyone yet. I am tempted to vote for someone that took the knee-jerk “let’s vote Visor because ‘reasons’” path, but I have yet to have any one poster stick out as manipulating that very obvious response. No one has completely ignored Visor either, which would be another thing to pick on.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unvote: Visor
Vote: BSmith

I'd actually like to thank Visor for ensuring that D1 wasn't completely useless for once. Anyway, BSmith's being way too wishy-washy here.

[seireikhaan]

Yes, yes... you and GH are correct, wishy-washy is a good words for that. "Struggling to not random". It's day 1, random it like a boss.

And hush, you, switching a vote is not wishy-washy.

Unvote: Ishmael
Vote: Bsmith

[Kagemusha]

Vote:Monty Too easy vote and implemented so gently that no one might notice.

[landlubber]

Okay, I've slept on it, and I'm still inclined to vote Visor. His insistence that the mafia don't need or want to kill him is odd. He denies wanting to work with the mafia, but that's exactly what this sounds like.

Furthermore, I'm still stuck on his "good townie" defense. If we take him at face value, he genuinely believes that the mafia are going to completely leave him alone. What incentive does he have in this case to work with the town at all, to make cases against the mafia? If he starts scumcatching, the mafia would want him dead, which runs counter to his strategy. Besides, he seems much more keen on forging an alliance with the mafia (albeit possibly unspoken) than he's willing to say directly.

At worst, we're losing an opportunist who would gladly sell out the town the minute things turned toward the mafia. He's got no real motivation to help us now. I'm all but convinced.

vote:Visorslash

[landlubber]

Or invite, vote:Visorslash, rather.

[landlubber]

god my spelling is awful today
Unvote, vote:Visorslash

[GeneralHankerchief]

Autocorrect, maybe? LIKE FROM A PHONE?

[Winston Hughes]

If Visor and GH are scumbuddies, that was a very bold opening to the game. Typically, though, it's come from a pair who I can quite imagine being so bold.

ScumVisor making that play would want the wagon started as early as possible, knowing it would generate reasons to vote for other people. Left to linger, you run the risk that votes start piling up too late to be diverted onto a patsy.

What, then, to make of GH's switch to BSmith? He's not a great lynch, imo. It's true that he's been a bit wishy-washy, but I think he'd try to avoid giving that impression if scum (and, afaik, there's not enough of us here who know him well enough for it to work as playing against his meta). But is that switch a move GH would make if he and Visor really were buddies? After the boldness of the opening, it would seem a bit limp by comparison. Still plausible, though.

In other news, I like landlubber's case on Visor. Even if he's wrong about the latter's motives, it suggests a believably townie thought process. Meanwhile, Kage's vote on Monty isn't much less easy and gentle than the vote it addresses. I'd like to see more substance from both of these guys before day's end, if possible.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I was never intending to keep my vote on Visor. I followed up my initial vote with some purposely ridiculous logic to see if anyone would be lazy and latch onto it. That failed and discussion went in other-ish directions, so I picked who looked the most for-real scummy.

[johnhughthom]

Only just noticed this has started. So, let's get this out of the way, otherwise the mafia Gods may strike me down, Vote: Winston Hughes.

Now I'm going to reread the thread. What are you playing at Visor, has this topsy turvy Ashes series made you a bit crazy?

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Winston Hughes.

*satisfied sigh*

I know you're only going through the motions these days, but it still loops my noose to hear you say that.

[Winston Hughes]

Oh yeah, and I'm sorry for getting you D1 lynched last time out. I mean, you did turn out to be scum and all, but it was a genuine accident.

[johnhughthom]

I think that was more down to a careless scum team not paying attention. I'd much rather continue a time honoured tradition than get a win anyway.

So. This whole Visorslash thing. I think when I see something like that I want to vote for them "just in case", I don't want to be one of the townies made to look like a total fool. Usually that's enough reason for me to vote someone, usually. I don't care about winning, but looking a fool? Sure, I care about that,

But... I think I'll give Mr Slash the benefit of the doubt and focus on the reaction to his silliness.

Unvote.

[BSmith]

Yes, yes... you and GH are correct, wishy-washy is a good words for that. "Struggling to not random". It's day 1, random it like a boss.

And hush, you, switching a vote is not wishy-washy.

Unvote: Ishmael
Vote: Bsmith

Random on D1 is usually the way to go because there is an absence of other information to make an informed decision. That is not the case here, as we have plenty of other information given Visor’s claim and the reactions to it.

The way you gloss over this fact along with your quick, easy copy-cat vote for me strikes me as an attempt to seem like you are contributing, but in reality are just trying to make it look like you are.

vote: seireikhaan

[Winston Hughes]

So. This whole Visorslash thing. I think when I see something like that I want to vote for them "just in case", I don't want to be one of the townies made to look like a total fool. Usually that's enough reason for me to vote someone, usually. I don't care about winning, but looking a fool? Sure, I care about that,

Yeah, I've been asking myself how much that's affecting my judgement. In the end, though, it's all WIFOM where Visor is concerned. What I'm left with is this: a neutral claim on day one of a small game, with nobody else jumping out as a strong option just yet.

[Winston Hughes]

I was never intending to keep my vote on Visor. I followed up my initial vote with some purposely ridiculous logic to see if anyone would be lazy and latch onto it. That failed and discussion went in other-ish directions, so I picked who looked the most for-real scummy.

The more I read this, the less I like it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Anything specifically about it?

[Winston Hughes]

I guess I'm just not seeing the bait in those posts, making your characterisation seem rather forced and, thus, defensive.

[Csargo]

Vote:Abstain

Why? Now I just have to read through all of these posts. Where are all the nonsensical joke posts? I'll be back when I read through all of this.

[El Barto]

Where are all the nonsensical joke posts?

Every post by or addressing Double A, who, incidentally, is not a player but a substitute.

[Csargo]

Every post by or addressing Double A, who, incidentally, is not a player but a substitute.

Yeah, that's true.

[Csargo]

How many mafia/wolves are we assuming here? 1/2? It's been a while since I've played a game like this. Depending on the answer I might vote Visor.

[Visor]

How many mafia/wolves are we assuming here? 1/2? It's been a while since I've played a game like this. Depending on the answer I might vote Visor.

12 people in the game if I recall correctly so 2 mafia.

For the sake of being fully transparent GH did PM after out initial convo saying he had no intention of keeping his vote on me, so I tend to believe him there hence the lean.

[Visor]

And, no I have no intention of rescinding my claim.

I am exactly what I say I am.

[landlubber]

How many mafia/wolves are we assuming here? 1/2? It's been a while since I've played a game like this. Depending on the answer I might vote Visor.

Visor keeps referring to a pair of mafia, but it's not all that unheard of to just have one mafioso in a game this small. Three would almost certainly be excessive.